How to get CONSISTENCY

[LINESPEED]

Totally agree about line speed. Its something we lost when Bennett left and need to realise how important it is.
Our defense won us last night's game but we shouldn't have to work that hard.
Every set the Sharks had ended with at least one attacking play near or inside our 20m zone.
Then its a hard slog to get back up the field. Scoring tries like this is very unlikely as you are constantly working it out of your end.
Its looking a lot like 2015 and we won't get much better until we move up and pressure the playmakers of the opposition.
Meekly waiting and giving up ground every tackle will play the opposition into form and stop us from being a genuine contender.
Sick of always seeing highlight reels for other teams and players involving the Dragons.

Yeah we basically had a couple of fairly lucky tries - and the Sharkies seemed to drop a lot of ball at critical points, like the Panthers

 

[LINESPEED]

Yeah we basically had a couple of fairly lucky tries - and the Sharkies seemed to drop a lot of ball at critical points, like the Panthers

Just watched a replay -

Why are the Dragons clocking off midfield in defence?

They aren't targeting playmakers - giving them time for bombs
Yet they defend like hell with great LINESPEED inside their 20m.
A coaching tweak can fix this?
Reduce the opportunities for tries from those bombs Mary!!!

We are being scored against on the edges - have we conceded any tries through the forwards yet??

 

[SGMax]

Just watched a replay -

Why are the Dragons clocking off midfield in defence?

They aren't targeting playmakers - giving them time for bombs
Yet they defend like hell with great LINESPEED inside their 20m.
A coaching tweak can fix this?
Reduce the opportunities for tries from those bombs Mary!!!

We are being scored against on the edges - have we conceded any tries through the forwards yet??

Yep, they've been doing it for years.
Two steps forward, plant your feet, then wait for the opposition to come to you. Guarantees you give up a minimum of 10m every tackle....more if they go to our backline who start backpeddling.
I've been screaming at the TV about this since Price took over.
At least Mcgregor has them scrambling and defending the line well.
They are neutralising themselves by giving up so much ground that they don't get the chance to attack or put the opposition under any pressure.
The only games where we do well are where the opposition make repeated errors and allow us to start from better positions. Its why we are so bad against the well coached teams like the Broncos and Cowboys.

 

[LINESPEED]

Yep, they've been doing it for years.
Two steps forward, plant your feet, then wait for the opposition to come to you. Guarantees you give up a minimum of 10m every tackle....more if they go to our backline who start backpeddling.
I've been screaming at the TV about this since Price took over.
At least Mcgregor has them scrambling and defending the line well.
They are neutralising themselves by giving up so much ground that they don't get the chance to attack or put the opposition under any pressure.
The only games where we do well are where the opposition make repeated errors and allow us to start from better positions. Its why we are so bad against the well coached teams like the Broncos and Cowboys.

Yeah - between the 20m lines they become WATCHERS
of the opposition - instead of proactively moving FORWARD - fast - in a LINE of backs WHO ARE TALKING to each other, they so often back peddle!!

C'mon Hornby!!

And get McCrone out of the attack while you're about it - how many try assists etc etc has he delivered? He'll cost us games for sure.

Most defence issues are negated if you shut down the attack before it materialises?

I reckon that means a lot less FATIGUE all round - saved energy that CAN be used for attack?
Kinda like working out optimal use of energy, or renewable energy from better decision making.

Anyway, WHERE was our Beau Scott to nail Townsend, who had enough time to paint his nails as they say?

Who are you going to make into our enforcer - or don't we need that string to our bow?
Jack?
He's feared across the NRL
Fear works to create error. The playmakers MUST be shut down!
Think Lewis on Widdop - no waiting for the offload there eh???
Bustled teams are put off their games - can't get into their rhythm! Lose!
It ain't rocket science Mary, but it sure wins games when applied consistently as part of team culture/ethos.

YOU have to instil that?

Surely it's an easy coaching thing??
No need to reinvent the wheel
Seems like common sense from the grandstand.

 

[possm]

Totally agree about line speed. Its something we lost when Bennett left and need to realise how important it is.
Our defense won us last night's game but we shouldn't have to work that hard.
Every set the Sharks had ended with at least one attacking play near or inside our 20m zone.
Then its a hard slog to get back up the field. Scoring tries like this is very unlikely as you are constantly working it out of your end.
Its looking a lot like 2015 and we won't get much better until we move up and pressure the playmakers of the opposition.
Meekly waiting and giving up ground every tackle will play the opposition into form and stop us from being a genuine contender.
Sick of always seeing highlight reels for other teams and players involving the Dragons.

I know Mary wasn't there in the Bennett era however, you'd think both Hornby and Young would have learnt a thing or two about defensive patterns, line speed in defence, ownership of defensive space and 'working for each other'.

 

[SGMax]

I know Mary wasn't there in the Bennett era however, you'd think both Hornby and Young would have learnt a thing or two about defensive patterns, line speed in defence, ownership of defensive space and 'working for each other'.

Hornby in particular should have learnt more from the changes Bennett brought in.
The contrast could not have been more obvious as Bennett fixed our defensive issues in the first off-season.
I used to watch them play at Kogarah and see the arm wrestle where our defence would gradually have them kicking from further back each set of six.
Soon after, the pressure would tell on the opposition and the fumbles and poor passes would start....much like other teams have been doing to the Dragons over the years since.
Hopefully this year things improve and they defend territory and not just the try line.

 

[LINESPEED]

Hornby in particular should have learnt more from the changes Bennett brought in.
The contrast could not have been more obvious as Bennett fixed our defensive issues in the first off-season.
I used to watch them play at Kogarah and see the arm wrestle where our defence would gradually have them kicking from further back each set of six.
Soon after, the pressure would tell on the opposition and the fumbles and poor passes would start....much like other teams have been doing to the Dragons over the years since.
Hopefully this year things improve and they defend territory and not just the try line.

Yeah try defending the 20m line as if it were the tryline - a mentally simple way of drawing a defensive line in the sand!

 

[LINESPEED]

I know Mary wasn't there in the Bennett era however, you'd think both Hornby and Young would have learnt a thing or two about defensive patterns, line speed in defence, ownership of defensive space and 'working for each other'.

The hallmark of Bennett teams has been consistency, as it was with Jack Gibson teams, whose sometimes average players played consistently beyond their known potential. These were the 2 standout coaches of the last 50 years. Gibson regularly brought an unknown reserve grader up for a specific match and he'd turn in a blinder & play out of his skin. He continually RENEWED his teams. He was the great INNOVATOR of the game.

Listening Mary?

HOW did they do it?
Look at what they consistently did:

1. Recruited players who put in, week in week out, consistently! I remember both coaches often saying "they"ll never let me down" and "they'll put in regularly". Wonder why Lafai, McCrone, Sims & MacDonald were let go & why Bennett axed Barba? You could draw up a long list of such players. The majority of juniors who don't make NRL fail largely because of their lack of consistency, along with their often "not turning up" syndrome.
It's both a talent & a mental thing.
Footy smarts and KNOWING a good player when you see one

And sadly mental fortitude is not as much a part of Australian culture as it used to be; we aren't bush dwellers now; soft city folk; life's easy now; kids sooking over million dollar pay cheques; no dying in the trenches for these boys ( Dugan excepted - he's like a guy out of Russell Crowe's ' The Water Diviner' - my 90 yr old mum loves him)
2. Developed & maintained a disciplined team culture and pride in their jersey- one of their common sayings: " they're playing for each other". Respect for each other; the jumper
3. Rarely could the phrase "which team will turn up today" be levelled at their teams - and they are rarely beaten by much because of their consistency
4. Achieved mental toughness in their players through extreme fitness & self belief in their potential - along with an extreme WILL TO WIN and fear of losing, which is the pivotal motivator in All Black culture. It's never a Sunday afternoon stroll in the park or " going through the motions" for them!! It's extraordinary shutdown relentless LINESPEED and a willingness to bleed & dare I say die for the team.
5. Their players understood absolutely their role in the GAME plan. "He did his job" & " did what he was asked to do" were other Gibson favourites.
6. Gibson always said " defend the MIDDLE of the park and you win the game"

WOW
How SIMPLE guys??
Something clear & pure & uncomplicated
-to have in your head as you run down that tunnel Sunday

Yet our default position at the end of most sets is defending our line!
Strange days. ....
And the Dragons will get found out soon enough

 

[LINESPEED]

I know Mary wasn't there in the Bennett era however, you'd think both Hornby and Young would have learnt a thing or two about defensive patterns, line speed in defence, ownership of defensive space and 'working for each other'.

Can't agree more Possm & you back this advice up well with your suggestions on the Warriors game.
I don't know if Mary or the players ever read these posts & take on board the odd comment. We write them in good faith with the best of intentions

 

[Capital]

Just watched a replay -

Why are the Dragons clocking off midfield in defence?

They aren't targeting playmakers - giving them time for bombs
Yet they defend like hell with great LINESPEED inside their 20m.
A coaching tweak can fix this?
Reduce the opportunities for tries from those bombs Mary!!!

We are being scored against on the edges - have we conceded any tries through the forwards yet??

There is a little thing called "stamina" humans, not even DeBellin, don't have unlimited reserves of.

 

[Carlton]

Yeah - between the 20m lines they become WATCHERS
of the opposition - instead of proactively moving FORWARD - fast - in a LINE of backs WHO ARE TALKING to each other, they so often back peddle!!

C'mon Hornby!!

And get McCrone out of the attack while you're about it - how many try assists etc etc has he delivered? He'll cost us games for sure.

Most defence issues are negated if you shut down the attack before it materialises?

I reckon that means a lot less FATIGUE all round - saved energy that CAN be used for attack?
Kinda like working out optimal use of energy, or renewable energy from better decision making.

Anyway, WHERE was our Beau Scott to nail Townsend, who had enough time to paint his nails as they say?

Who are you going to make into our enforcer - or don't we need that string to our bow?
Jack?
He's feared across the NRL
Fear works to create error. The playmakers MUST be shut down!
Think Lewis on Widdop - no waiting for the offload there eh???
Bustled teams are put off their games - can't get into their rhythm! Lose!
It ain't rocket science Mary, but it sure wins games when applied consistently as part of team culture/ethos.

YOU have to instil that?

Surely it's an easy coaching thing??
No need to reinvent the wheel
Seems like common sense from the grandstand.

What you say is right but I think there is also another factor to consider. SGI are terrible at slowing the play the ball and that is one of the reasons the opposition make so much ground and why the defence is caught standing back. If we could win the wrestle better the defence can be back and then move up aggressively. When the ball is being played before the defence has been able to retreat the 10m its very hard to be moving forward to meet the attack.

 

[LINESPEED]

What you say is right but I think there is also another factor to consider. SGI are terrible at slowing the play the ball and that is one of the reasons the opposition make so much ground and why the defence is caught standing back. If we could win the wrestle better the defence can be back and then move up aggressively. When the ball is being played before the defence has been able to retreat the 10m its very hard to be moving forward to meet the attack.

Yeah you're dead right on that - and Bellamy's a master on that front. The marker & tacklers have to try to shut the quick play the ball down & it takes a lot of energy, as does line speed. But the teams who do it tend to win?
And getting 13 players on the same page at the same time defines the art of coaching, requiring great on-field leadership & coordination... Ie Thurston & Smith.
We can only look at stats to see if anyone's listening.

How do you measure this via signs of improvement?
1. Count the number of bombs & chips conceded on the tryline each game - remembering that these should be seen as defensive failures because it's 50/50 trytime or a fatiguing repeat set.
2. Count how many attacking plays there are inside our 20m
3. How many hits have been made on the attacking playmakers per game?
If these stats improve each week - then stabilise at the desired level to win matches week in week out then consistency has surely been achieved??

 

[possm]

There is a little thing called "stamina" humans, not even DeBellin, don't have unlimited reserves of.

Yes I agree and the only way to address this is too have the players match fit and up to the task. Another very important ingredient is for the coach to make good use of the bench. If all the load is being placed on our forwards 'power game', surely it would make sense to have 4 forwards on the bench and use the 8 interchanges to relieve loss of stamina.

 

[Carlton]

Yeah you're dead right on that - and Bellamy's a master on that front. The marker & tacklers have to try to shut the quick play the ball down & it takes a lot of energy, as does line speed. But the teams who do it tend to win?
And getting 13 players on the same page at the same time defines the art of coaching, requiring great on-field leadership & coordination... Ie Thurston & Smith.
We can only look at stats to see if anyone's listening.

How do you measure this via signs of improvement?
1. Count the number of bombs & chips conceded on the tryline each game - remembering that these should be seen as defensive failures because it's 50/50 trytime or a fatiguing repeat set.
2. Count how many attacking plays there are inside our 20m
3. How many hits have been made on the attacking playmakers per game?
If these stats improve each week - then stabilise at the desired level to win matches week in week out then consistency has surely been achieved??

I'm really pleased you started this thread as one of the things that was worrying me was how so many posters wanted to minimise the importance of defence in favour of attack. Mary has a lot to answer for with his continual reference to and focusing only on "D" because he has turned people off this aspect of the game.

Defence and attack go hand in hand, you need both to be working. They are not mutually exclusive and understanding defence helps understanding of how to attack. Games are not won with just a piece of individual brilliance or ad hoc play. They are won with grit and effort in defence, using structures and then playing whats in front of you when the opportunity arises.

This requires discipline and for each player to know exactly what the team is doing and what their role is (without stifling creativity). This is the coaches job. The coach is the one who has to turn them into a TEAM not just a group of players playing together.

 

[Capital]

Yes I agree and the only way to address this is too have the players match fit and up to the task. Another very important ingredient is for the coach to make good use of the bench. If all the load is being placed on our forwards 'power game', surely it would make sense to have 4 forwards on the bench and use the 8 interchanges to relieve loss of stamina.

They are match fit but they still don't have unlimited stamina. I agree 4 forwards on the bench would be good. Thompson to move to the centres if an injury occurs. Or Milne on the bench who is big enough to come on in the forwards.

 

[BringTheNoise]

I don't know if Mary or the players ever read these posts & take on board the odd comment.

I happen to know for a fact that all players and coaching staff dedicate 2 hours after each video session reading these posts. In fact it is standard practice across the NRL to spend a great deal of time concerning yourself with what anonymous people with no credentials are writing about you on the internet.

 

[blacksafake]

I happen to know for a fact that all players and coaching staff dedicate 2 hours after each video session reading these posts. In fact it is standard practice across the NRL to spend a great deal of time concerning yourself with what anonymous people with no credentials are writing about you on the internet.

Thats good to know.
So i'm not wasting my breath & time

 

[Old Timer]

Thats good to know.
So i'm not wasting my breath & time

Very funny indeed.
Might be good insurance to post in sign and brail just in case????

 

[Old Timer]

Just watched a replay -

Why are the Dragons clocking off midfield in defence?

They aren't targeting playmakers - giving them time for bombs
Yet they defend like hell with great LINESPEED inside their 20m.
A coaching tweak can fix this?
Reduce the opportunities for tries from those bombs Mary!!!

We are being scored against on the edges - have we conceded any tries through the forwards yet??

The opposition teams are all coached well to play against us.
They attack the middle early dragging 3 some times 4 forwards into the vicinity of the tackle.
Because we do not make many dominant tackles as evidenced by the requirement for the 3rd man in to be around the legs (often JDB)to stop the forward progress, if the opposition do get a quick play the ball they can swing it wide quickly.
Once we have committed the forwards to the centre the edges become frail and we start to slide in defence.
Because we have slow outside backs and play a compressed defensive line, once the attacking player gets on our defenders outside shoulder its all over as they have too much speed or we have the likes of Widdop and Dugan barrelling across trying to compensate and the hole opens up back on the inside.
It should be noted that we don't give away that many penalties for being too long getting up in a dominant tackle, it is more for laying around the legs of the players in the ruck or not getting square as we back peddle to get back on side.
As much as we talk about our strong pack and the "D" we are not a dominating defensive side except when on the goal line.

 

[Uplifting]

Who are you going to make into our enforcer - or don't we need that string to our bow?
Jack?
He's feared across the NRL
Fear works to create error. The playmakers MUST be shut down!
Think Lewis on Widdop - no waiting for the offload there eh???
Bustled teams are put off their games - can't get into their rhythm! Lose!
It ain't rocket science Mary, but it sure wins games when applied consistently as part of team culture/ethos.

YOU have to instil that?

Surely it's an easy coaching thing??
No need to reinvent the wheel
Seems like common sense from the grandstand.

Our most consistent line up:
1: Jack DeBelin

2: Nene McDonald
3: Jack DeBelin
4: Jack DeBelin
5: Jack DeBelin

6: Gareth Widdop
7: Jack DeBelin

8: Paul Vaughan
9: Cameron McInness
10: Jack DeBelin
11: Tyson Frizell
12: Jack DeBelin
13: Jack DeBelin

Bench
Jack DeBelin
Jack DeBelin
Jack DeBelin
Jack DeBelin

18th man: Kurt Mann