TPAs

[Lovemedragons]

TPAs have been a way for the rich clubs to obtain an advantage. The only way to address the problem is for the remaining clubs to follow the same formular or for the NRL to manage the scheme directly.

If the real reason for introducing TPAs is to help keep marquee players in the NRL without salary cap blowouts, then:

Have all TPAs managed by the NRL.
Have all TPAs negotiated between the NRL, player manager and sponsor.
Have TPA sponsors introduced by the NRL or player managers.
Have TPAs attached to a player for a period of time and remain in place even when players move to a different club.
Identify national companies to sponsor TPAs.

By adopting the above policy the TPA scheme would be fair and possibly more lucrative. It would better meet the aim of keeping marquee players in the NRL. It would not feature in the club recruitment process at all.

If TPAs are only there to keep marquee players in the game then it is no longer needed - where are they going to go - rugby union is a farce atm and they don't want league players anymore anyway.

 

[Dragonslayer]

TPA's are a blight on our game.
Whilst I understand their purpose, basically to replace the brown paper bag (which still goes on IMO) the NRL should have had some sort of regulatory method in place once they agreed to exclude them from the cap.

TPA's are also not easy to come by, especially with struggling clubs, and who really is going to fork out 100+K to support a football player, unless they fall within the games elite class. Promoting and marketing their product/s would be the main consideration and they would be selective on who that player may be to represent them. Image is a real determining factor IMO.

Also, as some have already pointed out, a company in Sydney is unlikely to want to sponsor a player from Brisbane and visa-versa. Also, why would a company in the Eastern Suburbs sponsor a SGI player? the fear is that they would alienate the very public who they rely on for business in that area.

As alluded to above, the only way TPA's can work and have some clarity (and even this is not perfect in any means), is to have a regulatory standard put in place and one that falls as, not part of the salary cap, but an extension to it. For example:
Total players cap = $8.7m (going on what's being said ATM)
TPA cap = $1m (with every TPA registered to the NRL auditor and not made public which still ensures the private arrangement).
Once the Club reaches the $1m barrier, then they would have to increase the player via the players cap or shed other players.
The shedding of players also gives a great opportunity to introduce a player draft. This should be held in November. This where player who are on the outer, disillusioned with their current club or contract or just want a change. Add to this, those who want to role the dice and see if their value is what they think on the market (aka Rein).

Not a perfect system, but I think the NRL need to introduce some clarity on this situation sooner rather than later.

 

[getsmarty]

TPA's are a blight on our game.
Whilst I understand their purpose, basically to replace the brown paper bag (which still goes on IMO) the NRL should have had some sort of regulatory method in place once they agreed to exclude them from the cap.

TPA's are also not easy to come by, especially with struggling clubs, and who really is going to fork out 100+K to support a football player, unless they fall within the games elite class. Promoting and marketing their product/s would be the main consideration and they would be selective on who that player may be to represent them. Image is a real determining factor IMO.

Also, as some have already pointed out, a company in Sydney is unlikely to want to sponsor a player from Brisbane and visa-versa. Also, why would a company in the Eastern Suburbs sponsor a SGI player? the fear is that they would alienate the very public who they rely on for business in that area.

As alluded to above, the only way TPA's can work and have some clarity (and even this is not perfect in any means), is to have a regulatory standard put in place and one that falls as, not part of the salary cap, but an extension to it. For example:
Total players cap = $8.7m (going on what's being said ATM)
TPA cap = $1m (with every TPA registered to the NRL auditor and not made public which still ensures the private arrangement).
Once the Club reaches the $1m barrier, then they would have to increase the player via the players cap or shed other players.
The shedding of players also gives a great opportunity to introduce a player draft. This should be held in November. This where player who are on the outer, disillusioned with their current club or contract or just want a change. Add to this, those who want to role the dice and see if their value is what they think on the market (aka Rein).

Not a perfect system, but I think the NRL need to introduce some clarity on this situation sooner rather than later.

Well said. If the Dogs secure Woods and Foran questions need to be asked. Add to that Cronk and it is a joke. The richer clubs will always find a way around the system.

 

[Slippery Morris]

I like the idea of a draft. The clubs have first option to keep the player and if he declines their offer then off to the draft you go. Make them think twice before leaving as they won't know where they will end up. Loyalty will all of a sudden increase and the weaker teams get stronger not just the same 3 clubs bidding in Dogs, Chooks and Broncos.

In saying that their has to be a minimum price tag you can offer your player and not have a club use the draft as a tool to threaten them with less money. E.g With Dugan, Saints can offer only upwards of his minimum value of say 750k which is set by the NRL. If he says no then off to the draft you go. Maybe go to draft with a minimum of his value + 10% so so he will cost the new club 825k. The player can then earn more and it is not a restriction of trade.

With the draft they can also treat like an Auction as well. Opening bid starts at 750k and price tag can go up. So if Newcastle get first dibs, they offer 750 and the next club in line can challenge them. Then it is a bidding war between the 2.

The only thing with the draft which happens in AFL is when clubs start to see they have no chance to make finals, they then tank games to get last to get 1st pick in the draft.

All TPA's should be with NRL and they distribute evenly within each club as they select a Marquee player to represent the club and guive that player the TPA. They stuff up with bad press then they are taken off the TPA list. win win for the NRL. Club and Sponsor.

 

[possm]

I like the idea of a draft. The clubs have first option to keep the player and if he declines their offer then off to the draft you go. Make them think twice before leaving as they won't know where they will end up. Loyalty will all of a sudden increase and the weaker teams get stronger not just the same 3 clubs bidding in Dogs, Chooks and Broncos.

In saying that their has to be a minimum price tag you can offer your player and not have a club use the draft as a tool to threaten them with less money. E.g With Dugan, Saints can offer only upwards of his minimum value of say 750k which is set by the NRL. If he says no then off to the draft you go. Maybe go to draft with a minimum of his value + 10% so so he will cost the new club 825k. The player can then earn more and it is not a restriction of trade.

With the draft they can also treat like an Auction as well. Opening bid starts at 750k and price tag can go up. So if Newcastle get first dibs, they offer 750 and the next club in line can challenge them. Then it is a bidding war between the 2.

The only thing with the draft which happens in AFL is when clubs start to see they have no chance to make finals, they then tank games to get last to get 1st pick in the draft.

All TPA's should be with NRL and they distribute evenly within each club as they select a Marquee player to represent the club and guive that player the TPA. They stuff up with bad press then they are taken off the TPA list. win win for the NRL. Club and Sponsor.

As you can see there are many ways to skin a cat. The NRL should have an independent body examine the current TPA system and then come back with recommendations for a new system after taking suggestions and advice from fans, members, Clubs and the NRL.

 

[possm]

I like the idea of a draft. The clubs have first option to keep the player and if he declines their offer then off to the draft you go. Make them think twice before leaving as they won't know where they will end up. Loyalty will all of a sudden increase and the weaker teams get stronger not just the same 3 clubs bidding in Dogs, Chooks and Broncos.

In saying that their has to be a minimum price tag you can offer your player and not have a club use the draft as a tool to threaten them with less money. E.g With Dugan, Saints can offer only upwards of his minimum value of say 750k which is set by the NRL. If he says no then off to the draft you go. Maybe go to draft with a minimum of his value + 10% so so he will cost the new club 825k. The player can then earn more and it is not a restriction of trade.

With the draft they can also treat like an Auction as well. Opening bid starts at 750k and price tag can go up. So if Newcastle get first dibs, they offer 750 and the next club in line can challenge them. Then it is a bidding war between the 2.

The only thing with the draft which happens in AFL is when clubs start to see they have no chance to make finals, they then tank games to get last to get 1st pick in the draft.

All TPA's should be with NRL and they distribute evenly within each club as they select a Marquee player to represent the club and guive that player the TPA. They stuff up with bad press then they are taken off the TPA list. win win for the NRL. Club and Sponsor.

I'd just like to see the Dragons operating on an even keel. If they have crooked TPA schemes and the NRL are fine with that, then we need to be in the same playing field. We have great juniors and a proud history. We have the most awesome record of 11 wins in a row - not seen ever before and in my view, will not be seen ever again.

We are the Dragons and we don't lie down and take it.
We are the Dragons we dish it out.

 

[possm]

TPA's are a blight on our game.
Whilst I understand their purpose, basically to replace the brown paper bag (which still goes on IMO) the NRL should have had some sort of regulatory method in place once they agreed to exclude them from the cap.

TPA's are also not easy to come by, especially with struggling clubs, and who really is going to fork out 100+K to support a football player, unless they fall within the games elite class. Promoting and marketing their product/s would be the main consideration and they would be selective on who that player may be to represent them. Image is a real determining factor IMO.

Also, as some have already pointed out, a company in Sydney is unlikely to want to sponsor a player from Brisbane and visa-versa. Also, why would a company in the Eastern Suburbs sponsor a SGI player? the fear is that they would alienate the very public who they rely on for business in that area.

As alluded to above, the only way TPA's can work and have some clarity (and even this is not perfect in any means), is to have a regulatory standard put in place and one that falls as, not part of the salary cap, but an extension to it. For example:
Total players cap = $8.7m (going on what's being said ATM)
TPA cap = $1m (with every TPA registered to the NRL auditor and not made public which still ensures the private arrangement).
Once the Club reaches the $1m barrier, then they would have to increase the player via the players cap or shed other players.
The shedding of players also gives a great opportunity to introduce a player draft. This should be held in November. This where player who are on the outer, disillusioned with their current club or contract or just want a change. Add to this, those who want to role the dice and see if their value is what they think on the market (aka Rein).

Not a perfect system, but I think the NRL need to introduce some clarity on this situation sooner rather than later.

Just two TPAs one for Dugan and one for Widdop would make all this rubbish go away. Someone please get on with it before it's too late.

 

[possm]

Whatever rules are in place you know clubs will try and bend the rules

Yes you're right. But why doesn't the NRL do something about it? And why don't the other Clubs put in an official protest.

Seems like there's something crook in the brook to me.

 

[possm]

Whatever rules are in place you know clubs will try and bend the rules

You know this, I know this and the NRL make the rules. Why aren't the NRL policing the rules and/or changing the rules. It seems to me that fairness is not part of NRL thinking.

 

[possm]

There is no substitute solutions, we need to offer a TPA to both Dugan and Widdop if we want to keep them. It should have been our first move back in Dec/Jan. Why not pay them the asking price as long as you can get a top up from a TPA to help you get there.

 

[possm]

Millward should organise for someone to organise a TPA for Dugan and Widdop.

 

[possm]

I like the idea of a draft. The clubs have first option to keep the player and if he declines their offer then off to the draft you go. Make them think twice before leaving as they won't know where they will end up. Loyalty will all of a sudden increase and the weaker teams get stronger not just the same 3 clubs bidding in Dogs, Chooks and Broncos.

In saying that their has to be a minimum price tag you can offer your player and not have a club use the draft as a tool to threaten them with less money. E.g With Dugan, Saints can offer only upwards of his minimum value of say 750k which is set by the NRL. If he says no then off to the draft you go. Maybe go to draft with a minimum of his value + 10% so so he will cost the new club 825k. The player can then earn more and it is not a restriction of trade.

With the draft they can also treat like an Auction as well. Opening bid starts at 750k and price tag can go up. So if Newcastle get first dibs, they offer 750 and the next club in line can challenge them. Then it is a bidding war between the 2.

The only thing with the draft which happens in AFL is when clubs start to see they have no chance to make finals, they then tank games to get last to get 1st pick in the draft.

All TPA's should be with NRL and they distribute evenly within each club as they select a Marquee player to represent the club and guive that player the TPA. They stuff up with bad press then they are taken off the TPA list. win win for the NRL. Club and Sponsor.

I'd also like to see a draft but unfortunately I doubt we will see one for legal reasons.

 

[possm]

If TPAs are only there to keep marquee players in the game then it is no longer needed - where are they going to go - rugby union is a farce atm and they don't want league players anymore anyway.

You may have a point however, I think if the TPAs were shut down and no longer available, we might find players moving to international rugby clubs.

 

[dragonssamy61]

Well said. If the Dogs secure Woods and Foran questions need to be asked. Add to that Cronk and it is a joke. The richer clubs will always find a way around the system.

It helps having the boss on your side.

 

[The calm one]

It helps having the boss on your side.

I think the draft has to be tried. Under the current system the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. The draft is the only fair way to even things up it has worked in the AFL for years. If players want to leave to play international rah rah for more money bye bye. Remember in the corporate world indivuals will be missed but no one is irreplaceable and that's what this game is, a Buisness not a sport, like it or not

 

[possm]

I think the draft has to be tried. Under the current system the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. The draft is the only fair way to even things up it has worked in the AFL for years. If players want to leave to play international rah rah for more money bye bye. Remember in the corporate world indivuals will be missed but no one is irreplaceable and that's what this game is, a Buisness not a sport, like it or not

There is negative legal history in relation to the Draft in the NRL/ARL. Although I would love to see a draft introduced.

 

[possm]

Proper NRL control of the TPA system is the only way to go. The TPA system should be audited annually by a high profile auditing firm. If this idea was put at the next NRL CEO's meeting, you can bet the only decent would be from the rich clubs.

 

[possm]

TPA's are a blight on our game.
Whilst I understand their purpose, basically to replace the brown paper bag (which still goes on IMO) the NRL should have had some sort of regulatory method in place once they agreed to exclude them from the cap.

TPA's are also not easy to come by, especially with struggling clubs, and who really is going to fork out 100+K to support a football player, unless they fall within the games elite class. Promoting and marketing their product/s would be the main consideration and they would be selective on who that player may be to represent them. Image is a real determining factor IMO.

Also, as some have already pointed out, a company in Sydney is unlikely to want to sponsor a player from Brisbane and visa-versa. Also, why would a company in the Eastern Suburbs sponsor a SGI player? the fear is that they would alienate the very public who they rely on for business in that area.

As alluded to above, the only way TPA's can work and have some clarity (and even this is not perfect in any means), is to have a regulatory standard put in place and one that falls as, not part of the salary cap, but an extension to it. For example:
Total players cap = $8.7m (going on what's being said ATM)
TPA cap = $1m (with every TPA registered to the NRL auditor and not made public which still ensures the private arrangement).
Once the Club reaches the $1m barrier, then they would have to increase the player via the players cap or shed other players.
The shedding of players also gives a great opportunity to introduce a player draft. This should be held in November. This where player who are on the outer, disillusioned with their current club or contract or just want a change. Add to this, those who want to role the dice and see if their value is what they think on the market (aka Rein).

Not a perfect system, but I think the NRL need to introduce some clarity on this situation sooner rather than later.

TPAs are a scourge on the game in it's present form. I'd like to see a re-vamp of this scheme and so call for the NRL to arrange an independent body to investigate and provide a public report.

Do members agree with this idea?

 

[getsmarty]

Interesting today's papers allegedly reporting Tedesco signed with the Roosters for 700K less than what he could have got.elsewhere.

 

[getsmarty]

Wests Tigers boss Justin Pascoe wants compensation for raids on home-grown players

• 
  Adrian Proszenko

Wests Tigers chief executive Justin Pascoe believes clubs that nurture junior talent should be compensated when rivals poach their best home-grown products.

The Tigers have lost three of their so-called "big four" after James Tedesco and Aaron Woods opted not to take up lucrative four-year extensions before they were taken off the table on Friday. With Mitchell Moses heading to Parramatta, only Luke Brooks remains of the quartet who graduated through the Tigers system.

The joint-venture outfit has a proud history of spotting and developing talent in its catchment areas and has the stated goal of having 12 local juniors in their full-time squad by the end of this season as part of its strategic plan.

However, the loss of three home-grown stars to three separate clubs has frustrated officials and fans. Skipper Woods will join Canterbury from next year, while Tedesco will shift to the Roosters.

Pascoe said the NRL had to provide incentives, such as salary cap dispensation or transfer fees, when players from developing clubs are raided.

"Our charter has been, and will remain, to develop the game of rugby league through our regions," Pascoe told Fairfax Media.

"Fortunately for us, our region is expansive, all the way out to Group 6 into western suburbs and the Balmain area.

"But we and other clubs need to be compensated for that. We're the ones funding it ourselves and allocating resources and talent to that development.

Compo claim: Justin Pascoe believes clubs that nurture junior talent, such as Mitch Moses, should be compensated. Photo: NRL Imagery

"To have other clubs come in and poach them without getting the right compensation is very frustrating from my perspective and also the club's.

"It's a sad loss, we've had three players leave at their peak in their positions.

Still captain: Aaron Woods will not have the captaincy taken from him yet. Photo: Getty Images

"The issue for us as an organisation and those other clubs that are development clubs is around there being compensation for developing with a reduction in salary cap value or compensation with developing players and getting a large transfer fee.

"Clubs like ourselves and the likes of Penrith, Canberra, Parramatta and Canterbury go out and develop players to increase participation.

Compensation: Justin Pascoe wants incentives for clubs that have home-grown talent plundered by other clubs. Photo: Peter Rae

"The clubs that fund the growth of the sport need to be considered when other clubs come in and poach our players.

"The current system is inequitable for that."

Pascoe admitted the protracted contract saga has been a disruption for the Tigers and the Friday signing deadline was imposed to bring the situation to a head.

"In hindsight, [we should] have brought it to a conclusion quicker than what we had," he said.

"It's been disruptive and we will learn from that. The decision to bring forth a deadline was for that reason, to bring some certainty."

New Tigers coach Ivan Cleary will now have the best part of $4 million to go to the market as part of his rebuild. Josh Reynolds, Ben Matulino, Aidan Guerra and Blake Ferguson are among the free agents that are of interest.

"Three finals appearances in 17 years is unacceptable," Pascoe said of his club.

"That's why we're making some of the strong decisions that we're making.

"Ivan and I and the board believe we are in a very strong position. This isn't a rebuild in the traditional sense. We've got a core nucleus of talented people already on this list – we just need to go out there with what we have now and complement and add value to it in the positions we need."

The Tigers face Canterbury, the team Woods will be joining, on Sunday. The NSW prop was photographed with Bulldogs players just days before the ANZ Stadium encounter.

Cleary said he had no plans to relieve Woods of the captaincy.

"Aaron is the captain of the club and will lead the side out tomorrow," Cleary said.

"I would be very surprised if that didn't happen. He is the captain. I'm sure it's a difficult process for everyone involved. He is the captain of the team and I'm sure he will show that."

Cleary has gone through similar rebuilds at the Warriors and Penrith and is confident he could turn around the Tigers' fortunes.

"Change is difficult," he said.

"The reality is it is a professional environment and everyone has different ideals and goals. I and we respect everyone's goals. That's how it will always be. We are going to change at this club. Reality is that history shows there has not been sustained success. That's what we are going to try and garnish. I'm looking forward to doing it."

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...ids-on-homegrown-players-20170422-gvq9tw.html