It's NOT a mess

[Old Timer]

OT, You have certainly expressed a level of exasperation with the NRL that I share. Well posted, sir!

However I don't share the depth of your feelings towards the retention and recruitment situation at the Dragons. I am sad to see Packer go. At the same time I have been impressed by Lawrie and Kerr in the NSW Cup games I have seen this year. I also think Jacob Hind would be a useful bench player. Two years ago I saw quite a bit of Packer in the NSW Cup and these guys are not that far from the form he was displaying then. No surprise it was Shannon Wakeman rather Packer who was the real standout!

Sad also that it now appears that Dugan is leaving. But it appears he has been absolutely determined to screw as much out of the club as possible without regard to the fact that all players in the club must feed from the one trough. Some players make demands that the club just cannot meet. Bird was no doubt in the same boat- wanting an assured spot in First Grade that we could not offer. Presumably he also made demands this year that the Sharks have been unable to meet.

Perhaps the problem with Dugan was being overpaid 4 years back. Having said that and as good a player as he has been at the Dragons, I think he was a more dynamic attacking player early in his career at the Raiders. I do think he would have been tremendous next year at right centre. Crazy if he ends up playing centre at the Sharks!

Dufty, Field and Mann all offer qualities in the FB role. Let's hope one of them emerges as a real champion. Certainly time now to get the off contract backs - Mann, Lafai and Milne - re-signed.

We had 2 class players on the books who would have provided hard edge to our side for next year and given us a real chance at top 4 and a shot at the title.
They have not been retained and the usual excuses are being trotted out as to why.
IMO both could have been extended at some point last year we chose not to do that despite both players wanting to be long term Dragons.
Now that both are lost to the club people again turn to the Dufty, Field, Mann, Milne school of thought.
Dufty, Field, Mann and Milne have all been treated poorly and we will be lucky to keep any of them beyond their existing contracts.
There is no pathway for these blokes and every time an opportunity has presented to do something positive with them we decline and dick them around with Flo to FB, Mann to 3 positions in 1 game, KFFFL to wing etc etc.
Now people in this place saying buy Gordon, Johnstone, Hayne, Graham, Morris bros etc etc.
We had 2 good birds in the hand and it is poor that we are losing them at a critical time in our clubs redevelopment, however if we do replace from within I can live with it, however if we again go external as I suspect we will I can only say that the retention system and pathway for people within our lower grades is completely f**ked and should be called out for what it is.
As I said Flo to FB, KFFL to wing doesn't endow me with any confidence whatsoever and the club deserves to be lambasted for its continuing short sighted view.

 

[BigBoss]

Cannot for the life of me understand why Packer wasn't extended in the off season. Millward is a dill with no vision. This will be a big blow up front. We lose our enforcer; our mongrol and intimidating factor with Packer leaving.

Also cannot believe that Nightingale is playing fullback atm, this is literally the perfect time to see if our young guns have what it takes in the top grade but as usual super coach has to play it safe. We've lacked vision in this club for a long time now.

As for Dugan I'm conflicted, yes he's a true warrior, gives his all every game, never lets anyone down, safe under the high ball, and just about the best metre eater in the game. Do I think he's worth 1 million a season? No I don't. For what he brings to the side, I believe 800k is more then fair. He isn't a ball playing fullback, and never will be. He's not a match winner he's a match saver. If we could of gotten him at the right price absolutely we keep him, but by paying 1 million a year for 3 years our salary cap will take a hammering now that Ben Hunt is on or close to the same.

My 2 cents.

 

[blacksafake]

Mary's selection management and suitability as first grade coach is another story. Sure makes you wonder what management are seeing in Mary as a coach.

He's cheap & most likely toes the company line.

 

[Blood Shot Eyes]

Because players signing with other clubs has never happened in the past hey.........

The only thing that's changed is it's happening earlier in the year as clubs now want to plan their roster. And managers use leaking deals as standard tools in negotiation.

If there was a transfer window nothing would change other than the confirmation would happen at one time. It would actually be worse as the speculation would go on and on without a signature.

Got to give it to the Tigers/Cleary. Whinging about the player market whilst being the most active. Never hear the the best run clubs complaining about the player market....I wonder why

Whats your point...everbody knows players have been transferring from one club to another...thats a given ....and who mentioned a transfer window...and as for clubs announcing player movement early in the season because they want to plan their roster is rubbish.they can still plan their roster without announcing it after a few rounds...and as for the best run clubs never whinge about the player market is rubbish as well....for those clubs most of the time their over the cap or their the only team in town and attract huge TPA ...thats why you wonder why....if your happy with the current situation then thats your opinion....I know along with thousands of other supporters its ruining our game the way its structured at the moment......trust me people are fed up with the current format and its getting worse...and thats why we are being overtaken by other codes...and thats not just my opinion its fact

 

[possm]

We had 2 class players on the books who would have provided hard edge to our side for next year and given us a real chance at top 4 and a shot at the title.
They have not been retained and the usual excuses are being trotted out as to why.
IMO both could have been extended at some point last year we chose not to do that despite both players wanting to be long term Dragons.
Now that both are lost to the club people again turn to the Dufty, Field, Mann, Milne school of thought.
Dufty, Field, Mann and Milne have all been treated poorly and we will be lucky to keep any of them beyond their existing contracts.
There is no pathway for these blokes and every time an opportunity has presented to do something positive with them we decline and dick them around with Flo to FB, Mann to 3 positions in 1 game, KFFFL to wing etc etc.
Now people in this place saying buy Gordon, Johnstone, Hayne, Graham, Morris bros etc etc.
We had 2 good birds in the hand and it is poor that we are losing them at a critical time in our clubs redevelopment, however if we do replace from within I can live with it, however if we again go external as I suspect we will I can only say that the retention system and pathway for people within our lower grades is completely f**ked and should be called out for what it is.
As I said Flo to FB, KFFL to wing doesn't endow me with any confidence whatsoever and the club deserves to be lambasted for its continuing short sighted view.

Step 1 get rid of Mary and half the problems will be solved.
I feel timing is wrong for Dufty/Field/Mann to be our fullback for 2018. If that is the way the Club wants to proceed with an internal promotion to first grade fullback, Mary should be at least giving them a run for the remainder of the season. The problem is that Mary will play Dugan at fullback when he is fit to play and he won't play Dufty/Field/Mann because he has no confidence in them.

 

[Blood Shot Eyes]

We had 2 class players on the books who would have provided hard edge to our side for next year and given us a real chance at top 4 and a shot at the title.
They have not been retained and the usual excuses are being trotted out as to why.
IMO both could have been extended at some point last year we chose not to do that despite both players wanting to be long term Dragons.
Now that both are lost to the club people again turn to the Dufty, Field, Mann, Milne school of thought.
Dufty, Field, Mann and Milne have all been treated poorly and we will be lucky to keep any of them beyond their existing contracts.
There is no pathway for these blokes and every time an opportunity has presented to do something positive with them we decline and dick them around with Flo to FB, Mann to 3 positions in 1 game, KFFFL to wing etc etc.
Now people in this place saying buy Gordon, Johnstone, Hayne, Graham, Morris bros etc etc.
We had 2 good birds in the hand and it is poor that we are losing them at a critical time in our clubs redevelopment, however if we do replace from within I can live with it, however if we again go external as I suspect we will I can only say that the retention system and pathway for people within our lower grades is completely f**ked and should be called out for what it is.
As I said Flo to FB, KFFL to wing doesn't endow me with any confidence whatsoever and the club deserves to be lambasted for its continuing short sighted view.

Thats the real issue isnt it OT we are losing 2 key players right when our club is not only in the redevelopment stage but right when we were in the real competative stage .....getting Hunt is great but getting one and losing two is a real shame..and Mann, Milne, Dufty & Field could have and should have been given more of a go in tbeir respectively positions particulary when the opportunity presented itself

 

[blacksafake]

Thats the real issue isnt it OT we are losing 2 key players right when our club is not only in the redevelopment stage but right when we were in the real competative stage .....getting Hunt is great but getting one and losing two is a real shame..and Mann, Milne, Dufty & Field could have and should have been given more of a go in tbeir respectively positions particulary when the opportunity presented itself

One step forward two steps back.

 

[Divine]

It's OK, I respect your opinion. Would be great to know your reasons for coming to this conclusion though however, it's not really necessary. We can just agree to disagree.

yep

 

[dragonssamy61]

It's not a mess but more a very untidy situation caused by a player Agent that has screwed and played a club & it's recruitment management because they procrastinated. Timing is everything and because this stupid Dugan renegotiation is entering 6 months....time is money and up go prices & demand. Now comes the spin & excuses.

Spot on coffs they started with dugan back in November.
But Milward should never had mentioned anything about what position he sould play.
Just make a offer and go from there.
Hopefully we will be able to sort out .
Lafai and mann then milne asap

 

[coast_dragons]

Dugan can piss off i am sick and tired of seeing his name just sign with the Sharks already.

I for one have never been that big a fan of his and now even less so and find it amusing the Sharks would pay him a million dollars when he won't even be the best player on their squad.

On Mary its simple the guy isn't a first grade coach never has been never will be he is to arrogant to make tough decisions and he has to many yes men underneath him to question his decisions.

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

Yes. You wash your mouth out.

Undoubtedly a Dragons' legend, and arguably the best club captain since Steve Edge, but don't delude yourself, Hornby was very much a 'manufactured' halfback.

 

[coast_dragons]

Undoubtedly a Dragons' legend, and arguably the best club captain since Steve Edge, but don't delude yourself, Hornby was very much a 'manufactured' halfback.

Really it has taken you this long to figure that out.

The Dragons have been doing it for years manufacturing players in numerous positions hell they played Prior as a centre.

 

[_Johnsy]

Taking a step back for a moment.

Packer & Duges 1.8 mill per year to keep them. Happy to pass.

Let's hold back on the wrist slitting and see what we do with the freed up $$$. If they f**k it up deluxe (which is odds on), then by all means lay the slipper in.

 

[Totaldragonfan]

I also don't believe it's a mess.

As plenty on this forum have said Dugan is a very good player but is limited in his ability to pass therefore is a bit one dimensional and therefore not worth $1M per season. There are options within our own ranks to replace him. Good luck to him if the Sharks are happy to pay him that sort of money.

Secondly, Russell Packer has been great this year and would have been great to keep - but not at any price. The club also has options to replace him I believe.

As plenty of others have said you can't keep them all. I believe Millward has done a great job signing new players as well as retaining junior talent. I would rather see Dragons juniors graduate into First Grade and be retained than continually buying players like the Bulldogs, Rorters, Sharks, Beagles etc do continually. It's satisfying to see their development and I believe they are more likely to stay loyal than bought players.

Just my $0.02 anyway.....

 

[Objective View]

Really it has taken you this long to figure that out.

The Dragons have been doing it for years manufacturing players in numerous positions hell they played Prior as a centre.

And JDB at half.

Straight Shooter

 

[The calm one]

Cannot for the life of me understand why Packer wasn't extended in the off season. Millward is a dill with no vision. This will be a big blow up front. We lose our enforcer; our mongrol and intimidating factor with Packer leaving.

Also cannot believe that Nightingale is playing fullback atm, this is literally the perfect time to see if our young guns have what it takes in the top grade but as usual super coach has to play it safe. We've lacked vision in this club for a long time now.

As for Dugan I'm conflicted, yes he's a true warrior, gives his all every game, never lets anyone down, safe under the high ball, and just about the best metre eater in the game. Do I think he's worth 1 million a season? No I don't. For what he brings to the side, I believe 800k is more then fair. He isn't a ball playing fullback, and never will be. He's not a match winner he's a match saver. If we could of gotten him at the right price absolutely we keep him, but by paying 1 million a year for 3 years our salary cap will take a hammering now that Ben Hunt is on or close to the same.

My 2 cents.

Have you ever thought the reason Packer wasn't extended in the off season is that he had some gruby manager telling him not to. It's fine to say Joe Blow and his mates should have been signed earlier but you can't force them to put pen to paper especially when some manager is telling them not to. E.G. Josh Dugan

 

[qld redvee]

the frustrating thing is we need to blood these ' rookies" and gauge how much work they need ( if any ) Every other team can throw 18 year ols in and they perform we at the dragons keep em in reggies and then wonder why they get snapped up by other clubs .. Last year was a prime example we didnt bring anyone in to blood did we.. hutcho for 1 game and then drop him to let benji have a send off !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mann was keelhauled and banished for 2 bad games others kept getting the top 17 week in week out why does our coach not look at players outside the 17 ?????? surely our overseeing committee must ask the question. Any for what its worth Mann should get another go at fullback and simms imo needs to work harder when he comes on hes becoming a bit hit and miss.. now Ill go and have a bex and a lie down

 

[Dragonslayer]

the frustrating thing is we need to blood these ' rookies" and gauge how much work they need ( if any ) Every other team can throw 18 year ols in and they perform we at the dragons keep em in reggies and then wonder why they get snapped up by other clubs .. Last year was a prime example we didnt bring anyone in to blood did we.. hutcho for 1 game and then drop him to let benji have a send off !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mann was keelhauled and banished for 2 bad games others kept getting the top 17 week in week out why does our coach not look at players outside the 17 ?????? surely our overseeing committee must ask the question. Any for what its worth Mann should get another go at fullback and simms imo needs to work harder when he comes on hes becoming a bit hit and miss.. now Ill go and have a bex and a lie down

Yeah I agree with this.

McGregor appears to me to be in either 2 modes:
1: He's been told an extension to his contract can only happen if the Dragons make the finals. Hence his reliance on the "old guard" mentality of playing anyone with some 1st grade experience (aka KFFL this weekend) even when they're out of form or injured. They'll come good approach.
2. He's been told there is no extension and his selection are just WTF and no real care about the future of the club. Hence no real investment in our up-and-coming youngsters. Let whoever deal with it next year approach.

With injuries ans such it wohld be prudent as you say to test them now and see what needs to be worked on.

 

[possm]

Taking a step back for a moment.

Packer & Duges 1.8 mill per year to keep them. Happy to pass.

Let's hold back on the wrist slitting and see what we do with the freed up $$$. If they f**k it up deluxe (which is odds on), then by all means lay the slipper in.

We are under the cap in 2017. So we have funds for all our current 2017 players.
The cap is projected to go up 2m to a total of 9m for 30 players.
So extra cap 2m
Dugan and Packer gone 1.2m
Total 3.2m
Sign Hayne for 800k includes a 400k subsidy from Titans
Sign Prop for 400k
Balance 2m
Contract upgrades so far - Widdop, De Belin, Thompson, Ah Mau, Aitken 600k
Balance 1.4m
Additional 5 players to make up our 30 player squad 500k
Balance 900k
Plus the salaries of players leaving,
less upgrades and new players to sign.

So as you can see the cap situation is not so bleak. After buying Hayne and a good prop and extending our pack of forwards, Widdop and Aitken, we still have 900k to sort out the rest of our 30 man squad.

 

[MilanDragon]

We are under the cap in 2017. So we have funds for all our current 2017 players.
The cap is projected to go up 2m to a total of 9m for 30 players.
So extra cap 2m
Dugan and Packer gone 1.2m
Total 3.2m
Sign Hayne for 800k includes a 400k subsidy from Titans
Sign Prop for 400k
Balance 2m
Contract upgrades so far - Widdop, De Belin, Thompson, Ah Mau, Aitken 600k
Balance 1.4m
Additional 5 players to make up our 30 player squad 500k
Balance 900k
Plus the salaries of players leaving,
less upgrades and new players to sign.

So as you can see the cap situation is not so bleak. After buying Hayne and a good prop and extending our pack of forwards, Widdop and Aitken, we still have 900k to sort out the rest of our 30 man squad.

Possm I admire your continued attempts at managing the cap. And I'm sure if this is all your working on but still can't get the basic sums right is suggest laying off Millward a little.

You say we have a balance of 3.2m and we are signing Hayne for 800k with a subsidy of 400k from the titans. Wouldn't that leave us with 2.8m? Unless you mean sign Hayne on a contract of 1.2M but that must be for one season? Because otherwise season 2 we are picking up that extra 400k and who do we let go of for that?