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New competition

Golden point

Juniors
Messages
456
So we have bids from: Central Coast, perth, brisbane,png, Wellington,Central QLD. There may be others.
Why can't they organize their own comp? They want to prove to the nrl that they are the most viable option so why not make the competition between them take place on the feild ? The nrl might not agree to anything but it could force thier hand if they start pulling crowds, sponsorship and players?

So shot me down but who among you can see the plausibility?
 

Diesel

Coach
Messages
19,918
Remember Super League?

There's only so much money you'll get out of media/TV deals and there is talk it's already maxed.

If you were a high profile player, would you leave an elite competition to go play in a new unproven league?

At best, in the infancy if you could get some decent sponsorship and media money it'd be no better than NSW/QLD Cup.

Better to have these new clubs join a second tier competition to learn the RL trade then start up a new competition
 

Golden point

Juniors
Messages
456
Remember Super League?

There's only so much money you'll get out of media/TV deals and there is talk it's already maxed.

If you were a high profile player, would you leave an elite competition to go play in a new unproven league?

At best, in the infancy if you could get some decent sponsorship and media money it'd be no better than NSW/QLD Cup.

Better to have these new clubs join a second tier competition to learn the RL trade then start up a new competition
 

Golden point

Juniors
Messages
456
QLD cup and NSW cup aren't full of teams that are aspiring to be in the nrl .

The championship below super league are ready for promotion and have quality rosters with crowds turning up .

We have places that are aspiring to be in the nrl . They want to walk the walk then playing Tweed heads isn't gunna cut it.
The nrl will never approve such a thing and the only way is to start pinching players crowds and sponsors.

The current clubs are getting a strangle hold now and won't give away market share. Expansion will probably never happen now. Drastic measures need to be assessed.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,723
I've thought for a while that there may be room for a competition if it was held in the off season as to not compete with the NRL, however the competition wouldn't be able to compete with the NRL for players (it'd have to rely on NSWcup, Qcup, and Super League players) so for it to work it'd have to present it's self very differently to any other sports competition in the country and have to have strong points of difference in the rules as well (to force the teams to play styles of footy you don't see in the NRL), otherwise it'd basically be a poor mans NRL which would kill it straight away.

Also if I was going to start a new competition I wouldn't be interested in most of the teams biding for the NRL!
I'd want two teams from Sydney with reasonably recognisable brands, so the Bears and the Jets (re-branded to represent a larger geographical area then just Newtown, maybe South Sydney Jets or something like that anyway).

I'd want two teams from Brisbane with reasonably recognisable brands, maybe the Dolphins and the Diehards (again with re-brands to represent larger geographical areas, maybe north and south like Sydney).

I'd want one each from Perth, Adelaide, and Melbourne, even if I was facing the possibility of having to support them for extended periods of time.

Then I'd want Canberra, because there's no competition from other professional sports teams here during the summer, we'd have the place to ourselves.

After that I'd put the last two spots up to tender, and if two well backed clubs came forward with good business plans I'd add them, if not I'd go ahead without them.

All of this would rely on a of investors being willing to heavily back the competition of course, and a broadcaster willing to heavily back it as well, so though I think it's possible and that it could possibly work, I think it's incredibly unlikely to ever work.
 

Golden point

Juniors
Messages
456
I've thought for a while that there may be room for a competition if it was held in the off season as to not compete with the NRL, however the competition wouldn't be able to compete with the NRL for players (it'd have to rely on NSWcup, Qcup, and Super League players) so for it to work it'd have to present it's self very differently to any other sports competition in the country and have to have strong points of difference in the rules as well (to force the teams to play styles of footy you don't see in the NRL), otherwise it'd basically be a poor mans NRL which would kill it straight away.

Also if I was going to start a new competition I wouldn't be interested in most of the teams biding for the NRL!
I'd want two teams from Sydney with reasonably recognisable brands, so the Bears and the Jets (re-branded to represent a larger geographical area then just Newtown, maybe South Sydney Jets or something like that anyway).

I'd want two teams from Brisbane with reasonably recognisable brands, maybe the Dolphins and the Diehards (again with re-brands to represent larger geographical areas, maybe north and south like Sydney).

I'd want one each from Perth, Adelaide, and Melbourne, even if I was facing the possibility of having to support them for extended periods of time.

Then I'd want Canberra, because there's no competition from other professional sports teams here during the summer, we'd have the place to ourselves.

After that I'd put the last two spots up to tender, and if two well backed clubs came forward with good business plans I'd add them, if not I'd go ahead without them.

All of this would rely on a of investors being willing to heavily back the competition of course, and a broadcaster willing to heavily back it as well, so though I think it's possible and that it could possibly work, I think it's incredibly unlikely to ever work.
You have a good point about an off season thing and slight rule changes. I like those ideas ( probably a good short comp with nrl clubs selling their players for the off season). But my general idea is to get expansion back on the agenda and to create a platform for that. So basically the teams that are pushing for inclusion would be funding it ( this will help them prove their viability and start building their brand).
I have noticed that the AFL with their expansion really doesn't generate more income because with an 18 team comp they are forced to play games at the same time. That's why the nrl won't expand anymore because its only money they are after and don't care about the fans. Our only hope at this stage is relocation. :pensive:
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,411
I have noticed that the AFL with their expansion really doesn't generate more income because with an 18 team comp they are forced to play games at the same time. That's why the nrl won't expand anymore because its only money they are after and don't care about the fans. Our only hope at this stage is relocation. :pensive:

Afl claim expansion is worth $57Mill a year through the sale of the ninth game.
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,402
Afl claim expansion is worth $57Mill a year through the sale of the ninth game.

And from the next Tv deal, with channel 10 in admin and losing money hand over foot, what sort of competitive tension will there be when next Tv deal is up for negotiation?
The new technology that the younger generation is using is making FTA TV less and less valuable than it once was.
Both 9 and 7 are losing ad revenue to the likes of Google and Amazon already.

The so called $57m fumblers claim they get for expanding ,may well not be there next time.This after spending hundreds of millions on the expansion teams Gnats and Sunburns.

IT looks now the NRL with the much bagged(and I'm one of them) Smith/Grant etc grabbed the loot when it was available, because it looks like the same coin will not be there in 2023.Then you can ask what will an extra NRL slot be worth? It's anyone's guess.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,411
so we do nothing in case it isn't? Hmm there's not many businesses that become bigger by staying the same. Maybe AFL locked in 6 years considering this? Is this another NRL failure that we only locked in a 5 year deal?
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,546
I vote for a NZ Cup

ie the return of the old Bartercard Cup rather than demoting it to 3rd division

That addresses Christchurch, Wellington and Auckland 2 plus future NZ growth

And we should help grow the PNG Cup also

Central Coast is already there via Wyong - but I personally would it to be a Central Coast RL District team

NT is a natural for the QLD Cup

And we have talk of Wagga, Dubbo and Tamworth joining the NSW Cup in 2020

That leaves VIC, SA and WA

VRL doesnt seem to ha issue in flying today. So if we support SA and WA in the same long term manner. They can grow
 

Golden point

Juniors
Messages
456
I vote for a NZ Cup

ie the return of the old Bartercard Cup rather than demoting it to 3rd division

That addresses Christchurch, Wellington and Auckland 2 plus future NZ growth

And we should help grow the PNG Cup also

Central Coast is already there via Wyong - but I personally would it to be a Central Coast RL District team

NT is a natural for the QLD Cup

And we have talk of Wagga, Dubbo and Tamworth joining the NSW Cup in 2020

That leaves VIC, SA and WA

VRL doesnt seem to ha issue in flying today. So if we support SA and WA in the same long term manner. They can grow
This isn't bad. Maybe a few nz a png
I vote for a NZ Cup

ie the return of the old Bartercard Cup rather than demoting it to 3rd division

That addresses Christchurch, Wellington and Auckland 2 plus future NZ growth

And we should help grow the PNG Cup also

Central Coast is already there via Wyong - but I personally would it to be a Central Coast RL District team

NT is a natural for the QLD Cup

And we have talk of Wagga, Dubbo and Tamworth joining the NSW Cup in 2020

That leaves VIC, SA and WA

VRL doesnt seem to ha issue in flying today. So if we support SA and WA in the same long term manner. They can grow
You have some good ideasin there.
 
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taipan

Referee
Messages
22,402
so we do nothing in case it isn't? Hmm there's not many businesses that become bigger by staying the same. Maybe AFL locked in 6 years considering this? Is this another NRL failure that we only locked in a 5 year deal?

WTF.You appear to have zero ideas to what is happening with FTA in this country.2 hours behind us time wise and bleeding weeks when it comes to updating ,what's happening in the business world.

AFAIK we are doing something.Having the digital dept backup for starters.Not rushing into expansion unless income is assured.
We have not committed to spending $20m pa on new clubs plus extras for years to get $57m, "questionable" .

Of course you're the type who spends like there's no tomorrow.Stuff the consequences.You probably managed target stores in this country.Overstocked,with too many varieties and no dumbo will to buy in the volume they wanted.

The NRL locked in the deal to coincide with the next AFL deal, meaning the fumblers won't get it their own way, when the Tv deals come up.And there will be less available.At least smith got it right in that respect.

The failure is you assuming, because the AFL supposedly claim $57m extra for 1 slot ,is somehow going to continue circa 2023.
And the AFL also lost money last year FFS.With the "extra" $57m.Their TV ratings in the Northern states have not grown ,despite the extra loot.That's successful in your language LOL.And they have a couple of basket case clubs.

There's not many businesses who continue to spend and not get the benefits they expect.
 
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Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,411
I'd invest $20mill if it meant a $57million return plus strategically strengthening the games positioning.
 
Messages
2,839
A 'rebel' 9s comp in the off season ala the ICL would really light things up.

Let's see how much the players care about their 'welfare' when there are billionaires throwing six and seven figure contracts at them for a couple weekends work in december and january...
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,402
I'd invest $20mill if it meant a $57million return plus strategically strengthening the games positioning.

If i knew it was going to be temporary and not aware of the TV industry turmoil currently engulfing the business ,and the Tv ratings were not going to grow in the North,as a Tv station I would be playing hard ball next time,screwijg the price down well and truly.

It's not $20m for $57m.It's close to $40m for $57m.Plus all the extras such as promos, freebies,entertainment and extra costs not accounted for that do crop up in all codes.

If ad revenue (and it is happening) and TV income(and it will happen) is dropped dramatically ,do the Gnats and Suns agree to a huge drop in handouts as a strategic move?

That code had the money to throw around in the first place, the NRL did not.Maybe if clubs including yours and yes mine hadn't;t flipped to SL,we may well be an 18 team comp, with a better TV deal and strategy.

They(fumble ball) supposedly were going to strategically set up a NZ franchise, and the money wasted there for nil gain is not spelt out.No one has the balls including you to swiped them for that disaster.

Nor as to how they lost money last year.Lions a basketcase,money still being poured into Sunburns and Gnats.If that 's strategically strengthening,it's a bleeding costly way to do it and still mark time on crowds and TV ratings in the North.
They even lied about the crowds in China, Mclachlan using the "all in the marquee excuse" LOL.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,411
But you don't, and you can't know. If it was guaranteed for the next 5 years with a pretty strong chance of going beyond that then it would be a dumb business that didn't take the opportunity, just in case.

Afl had nowhere else to really expand for their ninth game as they had already succefully expanded north. They still managed to achieve two critical things, make more than it costs and further expand the game into nrl territories. Will it hurt them in six years time, neither you or I or they have a crystal ball so impossible to say. NRL expansion for a ninth game would not cost close to what its cost afl so even if the ninth game was worth less than afl's given how sht we are at negotiating tv deals, it would still in all likelihood have made a lot more money than it cost.

But to accumulate you have to speculate, and that takes balls and sadly when it comes to having balls our codes administrators are first class eunuchs!


Re afl on nz, where are you getting that from? Afl have said they can see the opportunity of a nz franchise by 2046! It's hardly high on their agenda lol.
 
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taipan

Referee
Messages
22,402
But you don't, and you can't know. If it was guaranteed for the next 5 years with a pretty strong chance of going beyond that then it would be a dumb business that didn't take the opportunity, just in case.

Afl had nowhere else to really expand for their ninth game as they had already succefully expanded north. They still managed to achieve two critical things, make more than it costs and further expand the game into nrl territories. Will it hurt them in six years time, neither you or I or they have a crystal ball so impossible to say. NRL expansion for a ninth game would not cost close to what its cost afl so even if the ninth game was worth less than afl's given how sht we are at negotiating tv deals, it would still in all likelihood have made a lot more money than it cost.

But to accumulate you have to speculate, and that takes balls and sadly when it comes to having balls our codes administrators are first class eunuchs!


Re afl on nz, where are you getting that from? Afl have said they can see the opportunity of a nz franchise by 2046! It's hardly high on their agenda lol.

I have never stated I 'know" emphatically anything champ.Yet you are quite prepared to make commitments/statements for what is going to happen in the 2023 deal re the NRL and how much expansion is likely to cost.You are guessing.
You are completely ignoring the state of FTA TV in this country.The state of or lack of consumer confidence and the cost of living.You live in a bubble.

Any business would take the extra money, but businesses worth their salt ,would also need to be aware sometimes costs can run well and truly over budget as the Nth fumble expansion has shown,remember etc AFL lost $3m thereabouts last year.They are hardly Warren Buffet.What happens if there is a huge drop in the next TV deal with fumbleball? The new clubs are not going to be laughing ?

" Successfully expanded" North re the Swans more like it, and they can thank the SL war else they may well be in deep sh*t.
The Lions are losing money hand over foot and crying out for extra loot,both the Suns and Gnats are sucking in money, and other Melbourne clubs are struggling whilst this AFL largesse is being used elsewhere.
The TV ratings are crap in the North,do I have to repeat it?You still can't accept it.How long have the Swans been here 30 plus years.

Compare the monies AFL received for 18 teams(the length of time and ad opportunity for that code) with the money the NRL received with 16 teams' a lot less ad time, and the NRL more than matched the AFL.

I'm getting it from comments the AFL ponchos have made re NZ, the opportunities they have claimed ,the money they have expended, yet they have withdrawn because the NZ public have indicated they are not interested.
Similar comment Sheedy made in the past, and the AFL /Koch made re China.They lied about the crowd in attendance,notice you ignored that point completely because it side it suits your anti NRL H/O agenda.

Here you are guessing once again ,you have zero idea how much a 9 game would cost the NRL ATM.The NRL are borrowing $30m in order to pay the clubs the 130% ,which will be repaid out of the next Tv deal from 2018.Newcastle and Titans in addition to the money the NRL has already expended is costing the NRL $2m pa each in addition to grants.Dragons owe $6.5m

You are somehow making an assumption the NRL would gather X amount of money for a 9th game.Gyngell who initially thought it would since backtracked.The same Gyngell who ran ch9.
 

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