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Non Footy Chat Thread II

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19,173
It always was religious. I f**king told you that yesterday. There was religion before modern religions. Even the Bible tells of the time before Abraham when people were polytheists. There wasn't atheism before Christianity. There was just other religions. And marriage was part of all of them.

Well.....from what we know lots of ancient societies had a set of beliefs that largely arose from a need to understand the world around them, explain how we got here and to order society. Some of these sets of beliefs involved faith in (or just fear of) gods. And marriage occurred in these societies, and in some cases religion was heavily involved in that. In others, manifestly not. In Ancient Greece for example, marriage was pretty much a property transaction. For the first 1100 years of Christianity, marriage and religion co-existed, but for the vast majority of people the Church had little to do with their marriage (in whatever form that existed).
 

phantom eel

First Grade
Messages
6,327
Definitely but again it is my belief that they are a noisy minority and are manipulated and used by sections of the community with no religious affiliation.
I hope they are a minority, and their loudness doesn't influence.

Perhaps they are being manipulated, but once these divisive leaders (and their noisy followers) put their intolerant views out there free speech dictates that they are open to the ridicule and intolerance that they are getting in return.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
85,047
You could also say that there are Christians, for example the lunatic sending emails to parishes telling them to "activate", who are doing the same thing.
Well I don't bump into those merkins on the internet or in real life so they're not my concern.
Ultimately some people will always try and make issues like this about their political or religious views (and atheism is very much a religion in the way many atheists cling to it) no matter what side they're on because they feel that their political standpoint is more important than anything else.

Look at the whole Charlottesville mess...yeah, it's about a different issue and its supercharged because Americans are much more stupid and violent than we are, but the behaviour is very much the same from both ends of the spectrum.
Yeah agreed. Look how quick the SJW mouthpieces have been to try and score political points over it all. If you disagree with us you're Nazis, oh and also now you all drive muscle cars into crowds of people.
 

Bazal

Post Whore
Messages
99,884
Well I don't bump into those merkins on the internet or in real life so they're not my concern.

Yeah agreed. Look how quick the SJW mouthpieces have been to try and score political points over it all. If you disagree with us you're Nazis, oh and also now you all drive muscle cars into crowds of people.

In fairness I'd probably drive a muscle car into a crowd of Manly fans....not a good one but. Maybe a Pontiac.
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
74,062
This was a warning about how a SSM plebiscite will cause such a unnecessary brouhaha. Yes the shots are being fired from both sides. Such a shame that we are only a few days in and it's scary to think how low the debate will get.

......

Malcolm Turnbull has expressed confidence that a marriage equality plebiscite will be civil and respectful. Unfortunately, LGBTI Australians do not share that confidence. And they have good reason not to.

There are already plenty of examples of hateful, offensive attacks on LGBTI Australians designed to kill support for marriage equality, which will only ramp up in the plebiscite.

Earlier in 2016, the ad standards board banned a Marriage Alliance ad depicting a rainbow noose around a praying woman’s neck with the tagline “same-sex marriage increases PC bullying”.

In 2015, the Catholic church distributed pamphlets deriding same-sex relationships as “friendships” which, unlike “real marriage”, are not “ordered towards the generation and wellbeing of children”.
In February, a former Liberal MP printed pamphlets claiming children of same-sex couples may be more likely to be victims of sexual abuse, abuse drugs or suffer depression.

Liberal senator Cory Bernardi was demoted in 2012 after warning same-sex marriage would lead to polygamy, and linking it to acceptance of bestiality.

.....

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...eaders-call-out-homophobia-wherever-it-occurs
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
85,047
That's ok. I was mainly responding to Avenger and Pou - including Avenger's claim that his faith/Jesus' words were against homosexuality/marriage equality, and Pou's statement that he finds male homosexuality revolting!
To be clear, my revulsion for man-on-man action isn't a result of religion. There is plenty of stuff that Christianity forbids that I find very appealing. So you're barking up the wrong tree there.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
85,047
I recall there have been times you did care, when you'd have a big whinge and think people were picking on you... or was that just a satirical reflection of this site's resident paranoia levels?
I can't remember. But as you'll see in the post you quoted I edited my comments about not caring to state that I actually prefer it.
 

phantom eel

First Grade
Messages
6,327
To be clear, my revulsion for man-on-man action isn't a result of religion. There is plenty of stuff that Christianity forbids that I find very appealing. So you're barking up the wrong tree there.
Thanks for your clairification. But it doesn't contradict my statement in the quote you included.
 

phantom eel

First Grade
Messages
6,327
I can't remember. But as you'll see in the post you quoted I edited my comments about not caring to state that I actually prefer it.
So without going back to read your post edits... it seems you are disowning your past preferences (i.e. the posts/times where you clearly did care).

Not that there's anything wrong with that, everyone grows up a bit once they leave their teen years behind.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
85,047
It was provided as a starting point for someone arguing a generalised/simplistic point of view, such as yourself. There are references at the bottom of the wiki page. Where are your links in support of your claim?
I learn from books mate, not wikipedia. Am I to keep a catalogue of all the shit I've read to satisfy your demand for references? We know the ancients invented religious expression for everything. It is human nature and modern people are doing the same thing. Every moral element is now backed by some appeal to authority with religious overtones - democracy, equality, tolerance, diversity, etc, etc. All are put forward as inherently good and right and self-evident. If humans are doing it now you best believe they were doing it in ancient Greece and earlier.
 

phantom eel

First Grade
Messages
6,327
I learn from books mate, not wikipedia. Am I to keep a catalogue of all the shit I've read to satisfy your demand for references?
No, admitting (as you just did) that you can't source support for your personal opinions/generalisation is just fine - and puts your attempts to reject the sourced statements of others in perspective.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
85,047
Well.....from what we know lots of ancient societies had a set of beliefs that largely arose from a need to understand the world around them, explain how we got here and to order society. Some of these sets of beliefs involved faith in (or just fear of) gods. And marriage occurred in these societies, and in some cases religion was heavily involved in that. In others, manifestly not. In Ancient Greece for example, marriage was pretty much a property transaction. For the first 1100 years of Christianity, marriage and religion co-existed, but for the vast majority of people the Church had little to do with their marriage (in whatever form that existed).
Marriage-as-slavery aside, that's different to what I've read. Anything communal (e.g. marriage) was until very recently within the religious sphere.

But don't worry, I won't be demanding hyperlinks to wikipedia.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
85,047
Thanks for your clairification. But it doesn't contradict my statement in the quote you included.
Your position has always been that religion causes bigotry or whatever. My point is that you clearly have the causal relationship ass backwards. Religion can be used to justify bigotry but bigotry itself is inherent to the human condition. Hence why middle class SJWs like to discuss oppression and discrimination in every manner except social class. The exception of course being when they tried to claim solidarity with the poor during the recent we-are-the-99% attempt to overthrow the rich. #Occupy
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
85,047
So without going back to read your post edits... it seems you are disowning your past preferences (i.e. the posts/times where you clearly did care).

Not that there's anything wrong with that, everyone grows up a bit once they leave their teen years behind.
No I definitely still care. As I said, I don't enjoy a discussion unless there is some disagreement. Therefore it behooves me to find the points of difference and focus on that.
 

phantom eel

First Grade
Messages
6,327
Your position has always been that religion causes bigotry or whatever. My point is that you clearly have the causal relationship ass backwards. Religion can be used to justify bigotry but bigotry itself is inherent to the human condition. Hence why middle class SJWs like to discuss oppression and discrimination in every manner except social class. The exception of course being when they tried to claim solidarity with the poor during the recent we-are-the-99% attempt to overthrow the rich. #Occupy
Translation...
Strawman opening sentence. Secondary sentence deflecting discussion point toward said strawman. A range of sentences diverging away from what the person had actually raised, and what their quoted post said. Silent hope that the diversionary tactic did not go unnoticed, and you won't be called on being an intellectual escapist. #obfuscation
 

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