The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[Captain Apollo]

Yeah the bridge is actually awful. But it exists if you dont want to cross the road.

Thing is you add about 10-15 minutes to your trip if you do.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I don't really agree. Personally I think games with 20K+ at ANZ have a pretty good atmosphere and that's with ANZ being a shithouse stadium.

Reckon you're in the minority there. Particularly for games below 30k.

Still I think this is about attracting the casual fans that don't always go. Anecdotal but a lot if people don't like ANZ as it currently is.

I think a purpose built 80K rectangular stadium with a decent gradient that's more enclosed would be fine for NRL games. It's amazing how much of a difference it makes having a good stadium.

Is there another pro sport in the world that plays to 3/4 empty stadiums? Can't really think of many.

Need to cater for your main audience.

Hopefully with the new stadium we see general NRL crowds so we don't have to worry about so many sub 10K crowds. If we can get most matches having 15K or more than that would be perfectly fine in such a stadium.

15k would be a terrible result. We need to think much bigger than that.

15k in any 80k seat stadium is selling the code short.

I disagree that it wouldn't be filled enough. 1-2 SOO a year and the GF. Plus international matches of league, union and soccer. Hopefully when we have a decent rectangular stadium we might even potentially see finals matches selling out (like bulldogs v parra).

There is only 1 guaranteed sell out per year at ANZ these days. That's the NRL GF.

SOO is very likely moving to 1 game a year in Sydney, and if it's game 3 it won't necessarily sell out.

Bledisloe doesn't sell out anymore

And soceroos only really have 1 or 2 matches every 4 years that pull a massive crowd.

Even the Liverpool game didn't sell out.

You have to think long term as well. This stadium will be there for decades. If we decide later that we need a bigger one then it's too late.

Personally I hope it's at least 70K.

I reckon 30-40 years is the life of a modern stadium. I don't see much changing in the way of the club matches that would demand an 80k seat stadium.

70k will be fine, but only if they do a proper intimate mode.

 

[herbert henry1908]

it is worrying that a 1.8km walk is seen as an insurmountable obstacle by some..

What if you're 65+ or with kids? Clearly difficult for them.

But it's not just the walk.

Remember most of Sydney would have a 30+ min train ride to central. But before that you likely need to drive to your local station as well. 3 modes of transport may stop many casual fans. It's about appealing to as many people as possible.

 

[Timbo]

If you go two streets along from Foveaux to Devonshire St the walk is just as direct, takes you straight to the bridge and you pass four decent pubs on the way if you are thirsty.

OR, just walk the old fashioned way up Foveaux street and cross Anzac Pde at the lights on the corner. I have no idea why there was so much made over crossing Anzac. There are plenty of places to cross safely at lights, it's not a game of Frogger.

 

[Perth Red]

The difference in past planning has a lot more to do with Melbourne being flat & Sydney being hilly.

Walk to the SFS is fine for me, but I don't have kids and I'm in my 30's. For some it's difficult.

Not really, you plan based on your geography. Don't build stadiums at the top of the hill from your main transport hub would have been a sound starting point when planning sporting infrastructure for Sydney city I'd have thought! Maybe if someone in the early 80's was better at their job you'd have a stadium that was easy to get to from central?

 

[Timbo]

Not really, you plan based on your geography. Don't build stadiums at the top of the hill from your main transport hub would have been a sound starting point when planning sporting infrastructure for Sydney city I'd have thought! Maybe if someone in the early 80's was better at their job you'd have a stadium that was easy to get to from central?

The SCG predates central by over 50 years. That's why it is where it is.

 

[herbert henry1908]

A reduction in 10k seating at Allianz may reduce the build costs, but the one thing you neglect is the amount of seating currently dedicated to members. Out of the current 45k seats, only around 28k are available for sale by the venue hirer. The remaining seats are kept for the SCG Trust Members. As such by reducing capacity to 30k or 35k, you would be drastically reducing the seating you a hirer could sell to the general public as I'll bet the Trust won't give up any of its current seats.

I'm not neglecting the members thing at all. Well aware of it, used to be a member myself.

This can be dealt with in a number of ways.

The original gold membership concept at the SFS was sold around the idea of it being sydneys no.1 rectangular venue. It'd host all the big matches.

Cleary under a 35k seat arrangement it's not going to host much outside of club matches. So automatically we could reduce the number of memberships available. 5000k would be enough members seats.

You could also come up with an arrangement like is done currently at ANZ stadium where members have to book seats. If they don't book then those seats become available for the general public.

Essentially it would just be a club stadium anyway, the demand for memberships wouldn't be as high as it once was.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Not really, you plan based on your geography. Don't build stadiums at the top of the hill from your main transport hub would have been a sound starting point when planning sporting infrastructure for Sydney city I'd have thought! Maybe if someone in the early 80's was better at their job you'd have a stadium that was easy to get to from central?

As Timbo pointed out, the SCG predates central.

Sure the SFS shouldn't have been built where it was in 1988, that's a mistake.

But yes, having a hilly city significantly impacted early planning for Sydney. So did the harbour.

Speak to an urban panning expert, flat cities were significantly easier to plan in the past.

 

[herbert henry1908]

If you used the Tibby Cotter "Walkway" in walking from Allianz Stadium to Central you would have to follow more than 1 road. You would have to walk further using that bridge as it is not on the shortest route between Allianz Stadium and Central Railway Station at all. Even the NSW Auditor-General found there was no compelling economic case to build that bridge - http://www.audit.nsw.gov.au/news/albert-tibby-cotter-walkway

That bridge was built where it was almost certainly because they thought they were going to get a stadium on the kippax lake site.

 

[Timbo]

That bridge was built where it was almost certainly because they thought they were going to get a stadium on the kippax lake site.

I thought it was there because it was closer to the SCG and the ICC had concerns about fans crossing a major road before the cricket World Cup?

 

[BlueandGold]

ANZ 1.6M patrons with room for growth
Events Calendar 2017
https://www.anzstadium.com.au/media/450243/2017_eventcalendar.pdf

-9 events in 2017 with crowd in excess of 80k. 3 events in excess of 55k.
-NRL Prelims between 2 Sydney teams to add to the list.
-Socceroos World Cup Qualifier Against Syria and possible USA matchup to be played at ANZ.

Alliance 600-700k patrons
-Roosters moving games away from Stadium, NSW Waratahs crowds decreasing.


NSW Government just spent 200m buying back the rights to ANZ, All signs point to ANZ getting the cash.

From a political standpoint and a Business case, ANZ is a win win for her Government.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I thought it was there because it was closer to the SCG and the ICC had concerns about fans crossing a major road before the cricket World Cup?

That's why it was built, but not necessarily the reason it was built where it was.

I've read suggestions that they wanted to keep it clear of the northern end of the park because they thought they'd get a stadium in that location.

It would've made a lot more sense to have a bridge go from the corner or Fitzroy st into the park & then another bridge over the Anzac parade at the northern end. Barring that block off the the crossover at the northern end & force people to use the tibby cotter.

Just read it actually cost $38 million for that thing. Staggering. Budget blew out $13m. Sydney is insane.

 

[herbert henry1908]

ANZ 1.6M patrons with room for growth
Events Calendar 2017
https://www.anzstadium.com.au/media/450243/2017_eventcalendar.pdf

-9 events in 2017 with crowd in excess of 80k. 3 events in excess of 55k.
-NRL Prelims between 2 Sydney teams to add to the list.
-Socceroos World Cup Qualifier Against Syria and possible USA matchup to be played at ANZ.

Alliance 600-700k patrons
-Roosters moving games away from Stadium, NSW Waratahs crowds decreasing.


NSW Government just spent 200m buying back the rights to ANZ, All signs point to ANZ getting the cash.

From a political standpoint and a Business case, ANZ is a win win for her Government.

You know I kinda forgot about concerts in the venue.

I presume most of those 9 events were concerts? I can only think of one sporting event so far that's got more than 80k.

Still think 72k is easily enough. Concerts won't be effected as much because of the use of the ground for seating.

 

[Timbo]

That's why it was built, but not necessarily the reason it was built where it was.

I've read suggestions that they wanted to keep it clear of the northern end of the park because they thought they'd get a stadium in that location.

It would've made a lot more sense to have a bridge go from the corner or Fitzroy st into the park & then another bridge over the Anzac parade at the northern end. Barring that block off the the crossover at the northern end & force people to use the tibby cotter.

Just read it actually cost $38 million for that thing. Staggering. Budget blew out $13m. Sydney is insane.

Yeah the cost of that bridge was obscene. Nearly as much as the new Noble/Bradman stands at the SCG.

Anyway, if you walk up Devonshire from Central instead of Foveaux you go straight to it.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Yeah the cost of that bridge was obscene. Nearly as much as the new Noble/Bradman stands at the SCG.

Anyway, if you walk up Devonshire from Central instead of Foveaux you go straight to it.

From what I can tell though most people walk up Foveaux.

Perhaps at this point they should just block off the other end for major events & push people down to the bridge?

 

[Timbo]

From what I can tell though most people walk up Foveaux.

Perhaps at this point they should just block off the other end for major events & push people down to the bridge?

Oh I agree that most people take Foveaux. If anything it's poor explanation on the part of the government and trust in how to best access the bridge.

And why bother pushing them down if they still want to do the old KB/Excelcior/Forresters/CA/Cook pub crawl on the way? As I said earlier, its a major intersection with lights and a perfectly safe crossing at the top of Foveaux.

 

[Suitman]

I presume most of those 9 events were concerts? I can only think of one sporting event so far that's got more than 80k.

I can think of 3.
S.O.O. and the 2 games Arsenal vs ESFC and WSW's.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I can think of 3.
S.O.O. and the 2 games Arsenal vs ESFC and WSW's.

Yeah looks like 3 it is.

http://www.anzstadium.com.au/footer...017-stadium-aggregate-soaring-past-1-million/

 

[Suitman]

Yeah looks like 3 it is.

http://www.anzstadium.com.au/footer...017-stadium-aggregate-soaring-past-1-million/

The 2 Adele concerts both attracted almost 100 000. Not sure what the other 4 were.

**Edit - IT's only 5 events over 80 000. Thanks for the link.

 

[Suitman]

Furthermore, I already think that's enough per year to justify retaining the the 83000 capacity with a rebuild, but if it needs to drop to 75000 for it to be a perfect rectangular stadium, I'd be satisfied with that.
I don't think it should be any less though as our cities major stadium.
How many times a year does the MCG reach capacity? 2/3/4?