Rugby League in South Africa

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Just a question on the topic....

I was watching that Matt Damon movie, Invictus, about South African Union and its the first time i had thought of putting the Apartheid history together with Union (i cant say im surprised Union was a keen participant).

Anyway, apparently the first black guy to feature in the SA national team was in 1995 and im just wondering why, given that Union was rejecting a good 70% of the population for such a long time, why RL never tried to step in and appeal to black South Africans.

RL has a great history of racial tolerance and an even greater history of telling RU to f*ck off when they act like pompous wankers, so it seems like there would have been a huge potential for RL to take off in SA pre-1994.

Anyway, im just wondering if anyone can enlighten me. Why did RL never take off in SA when the conditions were damn near perfect for it?

 

[Stallion]

Just a question on the topic....

I was watching that Matt Damon movie, Invictus, about South African Union and its the first time i had thought of putting the Apartheid history together with Union (i cant say im surprised Union was a keen participant).

Anyway, apparently the first black guy to feature in the SA national team was in 1995 and im just wondering why, given that Union was rejecting a good 70% of the population for such a long time, why RL never tried to step in and appeal to black South Africans.

RL has a great history of racial tolerance and an even greater history of telling RU to f*ck off when they act like pompous wankers, so it seems like there would have been a huge potential for RL to take off in SA pre-1994.

Anyway, im just wondering if anyone can enlighten me. Why did RL never take off in SA when the conditions were damn near perfect for it?

Rugby league has tried to start in South Africa in the 1930s,50s &70s- guys were getting knocked off for trying to start the code in those periods. Right now the rugby union are stopping its recognition as a distinct sport from union therefore rugby league cannot gain official recognition and government funding. Sports like tabletop dancing have gained official status but not rugby league. An ex Springbock heads the sport department which approves official status.
Apparently rugby league entices black Africans with initial development clinics and then the union people come in and tell them they are playing their version a month down the track. Rugby league hasn't got the funds or numbers on the ground to combat the sabotage and deceit. I have a great article on this topic by a NZ journalist and he ends with "Why?" and answers with "Rugby union has a fear of rugby league as it has the potential to overtake and replace it."

 

[StadiumXIII]

What Stallion's saying is right. Rugby league's lack of presence in South Africa is mainly because of Rugby union's power. What could slowly change this however is making international's more relevant, increasing the amount of neighbouring countries playing RL in Africa i.e. Zimbabwe, Kenya, Burundi, Nigeria, Ghana, Sudan, Congo and hopefully this can force the powers that be to stop being so small minded. Wish the RLIF had more involvement as well!

 

[Stallion]

What Stallion's saying is right. Rugby league's lack of presence in South Africa is mainly because of Rugby union's power. What could slowly change this however is making international's more relevant, increasing the amount of neighbouring countries playing RL in Africa i.e. Zimbabwe, Kenya, Burundi, Nigeria, Ghana, Sudan, Congo and hopefully this can force the powers that be to stop being so small minded. Wish the RLIF had more involvement as well!

Unfortunately roadblocks for rugby league aren't isolated to South Africa. In Kenya thousands of black Kenyas attended a game with Kenya RL hosting Italy RL and when it came time for a government funding approval in their sports agency the agency afforded funding to rugby union and not rugby league. (Friends in high places for RU no doubt)

 

[Coastbloke]

In this day and age of social media and an increased presence globally, the time maybe right to have another crack at South Africa..

The NRL should be trying to sell it's product to South African media and NRL clubs should play some games over there. Maybe play a WCC there..

Would love to see South Africa make a appearance at the 2021 RLWC..

 

[expansionist]

All true.. there have been many starts with RL in South Africa - and in the time frame you refer to there was a guy called Dave Southern who moved there and commenced RL development.

To the original posts point - He actually focused all his efforts on black kids - in areas completely ignored by union. He had a lot of success, but an end to end strategy only works when youve got another end to get to - and in his case union hijacked it.

He said that he would go around running clinics - coaching kids - with no real financial support - in regions where the union had never ever been, and then the next day suddenly they would appear give out gifts, merchandise, take photos, tell the kids that if they want to play ;rugby' there is only union and bugger off.

Once again there are many issues here, but to a kid of 8 - 11 years old who hasnt played any organised sport before - how are you going to explain to them and why should they care that there are 2 kinds of rugby.

Dave had thousands of kids playing regularly in its heyday

 

[Stallion]

All true.. there have been many starts with RL in South Africa - and in the time frame you refer to there was a guy called Dave Southern who moved there and commenced RL development.

To the original posts point - He actually focused all his efforts on black kids - in areas completely ignored by union. He had a lot of success, but an end to end strategy only works when youve got another end to get to - and in his case union hijacked it.

He said that he would go around running clinics - coaching kids - with no real financial support - in regions where the union had never ever been, and then the next day suddenly they would appear give out gifts, merchandise, take photos, tell the kids that if they want to play ;rugby' there is only union and bugger off.

Once again there are many issues here, but to a kid of 8 - 11 years old who hasnt played any organised sport before - how are you going to explain to them and why should they care that there are 2 kinds of rugby.

Dave had thousands of kids playing regularly in its heyday

Whats dissapointing is that this sort of information is not general public knowledge. Its a discourse that shows human rights issues at stake . At the least a big bully code doing its dirty work to repress a younger and more attractive rugby code! This is not general public knowledge or discourse and being a sports minded nation and liking a fair go, Aussies would be repulsed and disgusted at whats been going on. I know I showed the South African plight and the French example to a neutral female who followed both rugby codes. She read the articles and then referred to the rugby union people as "Those bastards!"

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

I cant say im surprised that it has all come down to RU being bastards...

Its just a shame other bodies (ARL, RFL, IRLF)

In this day and age of social media and an increased presence globally, the time maybe right to have another crack at South Africa..

The NRL should be trying to sell it's product to South African media and NRL clubs should play some games over there. Maybe play a WCC there..

Would love to see South Africa make a appearance at the 2021 RLWC..

Purely from an exposure stand-point (obviously the ground work in development would need support as well), the WCC would be a great one to more...

This is also why i would like to see 9s expanded with a 9s World Cup; rather than an RLWC that is spread over 6 weeks and a dozen venues, this would be 1 venue over a weekend or 2, a much safer beton it being successful and so much focus would go towards this one city.

Hell, even the NRL 9s could be moved around the world. I reckon the players would be keen for the new audiences and new locations.

Once again there are many issues here, but to a kid of 8 - 11 years old who hasnt played any organised sport before - how are you going to explain to them and why should they care that there are 2 kinds of rugby.

We are left explaining the differences between Rugby Competition and Rugby Competition to 11 year olds, because apparently RL hates having its brand recognised by anyone other that the already hard-core fans...

I dont care what RL is called in Australia (more recognised that Union, so who cares). But in places where Union has the ascendency, i dont know why we cling to a brand that makes us impossible to distinguish.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

It's sad what goes on around the world with the repression of RL but I think we need to take our share of the blame for not fixing it. We are not a united sport. The ARLC, RFL and RLIF should be condemning these actions and bringing them to light. Does the ARLC know or care? Heck even those three organisations are not on the same page.

Is the ARLC aware that rugby league is played professionally in Canada now? It shouldn't matter that it is in a different country's league, this should be trumpeted in the marketing of the sport as a whole.

 

[adamkungl]

It's sad what goes on around the world with the repression of RL but I think we need to take our share of the blame for not fixing it. We are not a united sport. The ARLC, RFL and RLIF should be condemning these actions and bringing them to light. Does the ARLC know or care? Heck even those three organisations are not on the same page.

Is the ARLC aware that rugby league is played professionally in Canada now? It shouldn't matter that it is in a different country's league, this should be trumpeted in the marketing of the sport as a whole.

Imo if there was the will (by someone with money and influence) there would be a way to get the SA government (and others) on board. But yeah, basically the NRL doesn't really concern itself with the politics and struggles of the international game.

Develop the game in Ireland, Scotland, and Argentina where there's likely less political pushback... in 10 years or so I daresay South Africa would notice being the only team in the top 10 Rugby rankings that don't play both forms.
Basically, legitimising our own international game through growth elsewhere is likely to be a more effective strategy in changing attitudes than stomping around complaining that no one is paying attention. Currently, what does South Africa have to gain by investing in Rugby League?

 

[The Partisan]

All true.. there have been many starts with RL in South Africa - and in the time frame you refer to there was a guy called Dave Southern who moved there and commenced RL development.

To the original posts point - He actually focused all his efforts on black kids - in areas completely ignored by union. He had a lot of success, but an end to end strategy only works when youve got another end to get to - and in his case union hijacked it.

He said that he would go around running clinics - coaching kids - with no real financial support - in regions where the union had never ever been, and then the next day suddenly they would appear give out gifts, merchandise, take photos, tell the kids that if they want to play ;rugby' there is only union and bugger off.

Once again there are many issues here, but to a kid of 8 - 11 years old who hasnt played any organised sport before - how are you going to explain to them and why should they care that there are 2 kinds of rugby.

Dave had thousands of kids playing regularly in its heyday

Corresponded with Dave early 90's then went to South Africa to meet him in 1994. Within hours of touching down in Johannesburg I was at a clinic with him ! Union were an enemy, but internal politics and some overgrown egos in the embryonic RL fraternity didn't help either. Also think the tours to South Africa at the time (Qld Residents were one from memory) probably could have done more to help out at grassroots. Couldn't fault Dave's passion ....just think the high ranking RL authorities across the globe sided with the wrong people. Saw for myself a letter from the ARL basically telling Dave to leave the code's future to others. This is now nearly 25 years ago.......Another opportunity let slip.by ......

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Imo if there was the will (by someone with money and influence) there would be a way to get the SA government (and others) on board. But yeah, basically the NRL doesn't really concern itself with the politics and struggles of the international game.

Develop the game in Ireland, Scotland, and Argentina where there's likely less political pushback... in 10 years or so I daresay South Africa would notice being the only team in the top 10 Rugby rankings that don't play both forms.
Basically, legitimising our own international game through growth elsewhere is likely to be a more effective strategy in changing attitudes than stomping around complaining that no one is paying attention. Currently, what does South Africa have to gain by investing in Rugby League?

Good point. We need to create the 'fear of missing out' factor by growing our international scene. The world cup grows larger with each edition and soon it will be a very attractive carrot for most nations, especially those like South Africa with Rugby talent already and can see an opportunity to quickly rise up the RL ranks.

 

[kdalymc]

Has anyone been to Redbank/Springfield in Qld? These kids may not be SOUTH African, but they're definitely African... and CAN play footy

 

[Dakink]

Does anyone know the exact state of the game in SA?

I've read Facebook and online etc b7t was curious if we have anyone from y there here?

 

[Stallion]

Does anyone know the exact state of the game in SA?

I've read Facebook and online etc b7t was curious if we have anyone from y there here?

The game is currently trying to gain official status so it can gain government funding support. Unfortunately the powers that be will not recognise rugby league as a separate sport from union.Apparently a former Springbock runs the sports department and wont give rugbyleague its status as a sport. Therefore no govt funding support which makes things tough for rugbyleague.

 

[Dakink]

Thanks mate

 

[Stallion]

Thanks mate

Your welcome. Just dont understand that many people are aware of this sort of stuff going on yet its not spoken of in the general public domain? It would change many peoples perception and understand the difficulties rugby league faces. Unless this becomes common knowledge it will keep holding this code down.

 

[miguel de cervantes]

obviously sports accord is crucial to resolve this sort of thing, which is also being held up. kodus to the men at the top who seem to be keeping a calm head and will persist until they get it.

 

[Stallion]

obviously sports accord is crucial to resolve this sort of thing, which is also being held up. kodus to the men at the top who seem to be keeping a calm head and will persist until they get it.

Its not like just South Africa rugby league that is getting a rough deal. Its elsewhere as well.

 

[Dakink]

Despite the hurdles being placed in front of them, what is the state of the game?

National comp or local regional comps?
Any juniors?
Is it growing?