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General Discussion Thread

Aliceinwonderland

First Grade
Messages
7,611
This is exactly the same as what happened when Preston Campbell played for Panthers too. James and Preston both lucky to be 90KGs wringing wet, attempted all tackles miss some. But it's not as doom and gloom as some would make out.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,542
https://www.penrithpanthers.com.au/news/2018/05/23/are-james-maloneys-defensive-problems-a-myth/

There has been a narrative lately that James Maloney's defence is worrying the NSW Blues hierarchy ahead of the selection of teams for Origin I.

But is he that bad?

NRL.com Stats have recorded 75 missed tackles for Maloney this season – 150% of the tally of the next worst, Wests Tigers back-rower Robbie Rochow (51), with Luke Brooks and Mitch Moses in equal third on 47.

Firstly, what is a missed tackle? It's not always getting trampled over by a rampaging ball carrier who sprints off into space. It is any contact by a defender on a ball carrier in an attempt to make a tackle in which that contact is then broken. What this means is that if a centre runs into Maloney, who braces, and bumps off the ball carrier, halting his momentum, and the runner is then fallen on by Dean Whare without taking another step, Maloney earns a missed tackle even though he's done his job.

It turns out this happens to Maloney a lot. See the video below for a list of examples. The vast majority of Maloney's series-high 22 missed tackles in the 2017 Origin series were inconsequential fends or bumps as well. Of course, there are other times when a runner genuinely shrugs Maloney off and makes a break or scores a try. This happens to all edge defenders.

A better metric for analysing a player's defensive frailties involves try causes and break causes. In try causes, Maloney's nine is equal 13th-worst in the NRL and equal second-worst among halves behind Daly Cherry-Evans (12).

Break causes is where Maloney struggles – his 16 are an NRL high. Among halves, Raider Blake Austin (14) and Rooster Cooper Cronk (13) then Cherry-Evans (12) are all just behind him.

Often what this suggests is that edge is being targeted and certainly the opposite halves at those clubs in players like Aidan Sezer (four break causes), Luke Keary (three break causes) and Lachie Croker (three break causes in eight games) are well down on the break cause and try cause lists.

In this analysis, NRL.com Stats has attempted to break down the costliness of halves' misses and found Maloney's missed tackles aren't overly expensive. Of his 75 misses, seven contributed to opposition breaks, or one every 10.7 misses – meaning plenty of inexpensive misses (other misses are still not ideal if they bring another player out of the defensive line to help out but are much easier to recover from).

Top of the tree is Maloney's former Cronulla halves partner Chad Townsend whose 39 season misses have only led to one line break. Johnathan Thurston is another whose misses rarely prove costly and maligned Eels playmaker Mitch Moses is another who may miss a few but doesn't contribute to a stack of breaks – even more notable given his team's defensive woes elsewhere. Worst of the regular halves in this category is Rooster Cooper Cronk, who was something of a defensive maestro for years on the right edge at the Storm. What this tells us is the new defensive structures around him at the Roosters have taken some time to get right with Joey Manu getting swapped for Mitch Aubusson a few weeks ago.

Newcastle's Brock Lamb and Gold Coast's Ash Taylor are another two who may have fewer missed tackles than Maloney but the same number of misses leading to breaks, making their respective misses more costly on average than Maloney's.

In conclusion – Maloney may be one of the weaker defensive halves in the NRL in certain metrics but his apparently shocking amount of missed tackles are deeply misleading. His team has conceded the second-fewest points of any club (and just three points more than the Dragons) and he generally is prepared to get his body in front, even if he poor at "hitting and sticking". To an extent his defensive weaknesses are also balanced out by what he brings in attacking play, leadership, experience and decision-making. It would be a massive call to overlook him for Origin based on his missed tackle tally.

Another very good read. Advanced stats like "Missed tackles leading to linebreaks" give another perspective on the whole stats discussion. We will see more and more of these types of in depth statistics in the game going forward.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Jimmy's biggest issue is not falling off tackles, it is charging out of the line leaving a huge hole. Which isn't even counted as a missed tackle because the ball doesn't even reach the bloke he's marking.
.
Every try he has conceded has been this very way. The missed tackles never cost tries
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,062
If you liked the other article try this one. Too long to post but it's about RCG Vs Woods. Beautiful read.

http://theobstructionrule.com/2018/...nderstand-them/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
An impact benchie with 8 runs should have a higher average than a starting front rower with 16 to 20.

Players don't have an unlimited energy source. What makes elite players elite is their ability to get through such a ridiculous amount of work at a high standard.

Taumololo. Klemmer. Fifita etc.

If they halved their workrate they wouldnt be dpecial at all even if they were 10% more effective..
 
Messages
2,583
This is exactly the same as what happened when Preston Campbell played for Panthers too. James and Preston both lucky to be 90KGs wringing wet, attempted all tackles miss some. But it's not as doom and gloom as some would make out.

Exactly!!

Preston suffered from the same allegations as Jimmy all those years ago.

Funnily enough, afterter the 2003 GF, Ray Hadley made the comment during his call that if there was a Clive Churchill Runners Up medal, he would have awarded it to Preston based on his defence that night!
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,062
Preston Campbell is the best half to never get a chance in Origin.

I guarantee if he had as many as Pearce he wins a series. Although 6 chances... nearly any half wins with that many.

Edit
Should say eligible half.
 

MrBlack

Juniors
Messages
1,331
Jimmy's biggest issue is not falling off tackles, it is charging out of the line leaving a huge hole. Which isn't even counted as a missed tackle because the ball doesn't even reach the bloke he's marking.

This frustrates me when I see it. Don't know why he does it. I assume this is what Freddy is talking about working on for SOO.
 
Messages
2,583
Just a quick note about the 2003 GF.

I was watching it the other day and there was a couple of amazing stats regarding penalties during that match:

* Only 3 penalties were awarded throughout the entire match:

2 for Penrith (Todd Byrne throwing someone's boot away and Offside)
1 for Roosters (Offside)

* Amazingly, there were NO penalties awarded in the second half.

Given the attention that penalty counts have been receiving as of late, it's hard to imagine nowadays a game with less than a handful of penalties being awarded.
 
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