Dragons In No Hurry To Sign Mary

[Rocket Rod]

McGregors Interview on Fox Sports Anzac Day Launch :

Our couch was interviewed today and was asked about Josh Dugan. He looked quite uncomfortable and irritated.
He was asked what position Dugan would be playing at the Dragons in 2018. He said that if he is still coaching the Dragons next year that Dugan would be playing fullback. When asked about the current offer being centres pay how does it work that he then plays fullback. He replied that it was not up to him to determine the value but it was up to Dugans management and the club to come up with a value of his worth.
In my opinion he should not have said that Dugan would be playing fullback next year and probably should've just said that I want Josh at the club and let the management sort out the finances.
The way it came across was that the retention staff and coach were totally out of sink.

 

[Old Timer]

Is this entire situation with Mc Fookknuckle a simple Catch 22 situation?
Maybe this is how it pans out?
If the club retains all the key senior playing group he is retained.
If we lose the key senior playing group and we will be reliant on juniors plugging the holes for the next couple of years, he will be moved on.
To me that makes sense, as even though we are sitting on top of the ladder, no announcements on key players or coaches and I think the announcement re players will come before the coaching decision is made.

 

[Saintsified]

He is bascially telling Millward, Dugan will be fullback....get used to it.

 

[slippery5]

I must say McGregor's interview just reminded me of the smug F.Nuckle pre 2017. Obviously the club knows he is unable to identify young talent & they are obviously worried about the long jeopardy of player retention. We all know there is know way Jack Bird would have been given a 1st grade spot so early under McGregor.

 

[ALSGI]

The Doc
You need to read all my recent posts before passing such silly judgement on me.
I have been upbeat and rejoiced in the better results of this year and given praise to those whom I normally reserve scorn for.
I expressed an opinion on OV's post and merely pointed out that some of his post is essentially quite correct and indeed relevant.
Whilst you say live in the present 2016 is the immediate past and being reflective to 2011 is not exactly ancient history.
That whole period was so atrocious that people are rejoicing the start to 2017 and saying nothing before matters or has relevancy which is ridiculous.
With the way we have started and the euphoria people are revelling in a minimum top 6 or in fact top 4 finish should be the expectation after normal rounds.
If we were to fall in a hole and miss that position as has been the case previously how would we describe the events up to now?
The euphoric people will say
Oh well it was great whilst it lasted
We are on the improve
We will do better next year

Would they be willing to say
Yet another false Dawn
It was merely and ectopic pregnancy
Other teams were slow to get their shit together which we capitalised on and when they lifted we couldn't go with them so another let down.

The answer to the above will only be known later in the year so no need to ridicule those that are more reticent in their approach to the season thus far. We will only know if the leopard has changed its spots in the fullness of time.
As I said before a c**k that crows too early can meet with a swift death.

OT, always thought you were a realist but never thought you were such a pessimist.

You make sense yet again, and good on you for offering your undisputed wisdom.

Agree with you that the more reticent should not be ridiculed but nor should the the less reticent, my professor.

Just wish your tone was a bit more laid back for us simple folk enjoying the rare Dragons footy that may or may not expire sooner or later. Just because we're rejoicing at the incredible start to 2017 doesn't mean we're ridiculous or our scars from 2011-2016 have healed.

Thanks for pointing out Objective View was correct in some of his doom and gloom comments. The majority of us may not be as patient as you or as reticent but might be a little euphoric given we're on top with 5 wins on the trot. Each to their own mate, you can reticent away all you like till September, but try to go easy on us simple folk enjoying a rare fix of euphoria.

Of course it may be a false dawn and thanks again for reminding us but I'm pretty optimistic right now and will continue to be so for at least 7 or so more rounds before I consider agreeing with Objective View's sunny outlook.

I'd like to reiterate your own words of wisdom - a c**k that crows too early can meet with a swift death.

A pessimist sees the difficulty in every
opportunity; an optimist sees the the opportunity in every difficulty. Winston Churchill.

 

[Dragonsteve2]

I have found this a very interesting exchange of views. On another thread I have been willing to say that I have misjudged Mary. There is always a risk if you are highly judgmental of an individual that you deny them potential for change. On joining the Forum 9 months ago I was horrified at the withering judgments passed on some players. Yet I happily joined in Mary's condemnation. I began the season ready to support the Dragons and Illawarra but expected within weeks to be watching more of the latter than the former. Now it is the Dragons who are doing the entertaining. And it appears Mary has generated a new spirit and will-to-win amongst his players

I do not think I misjudged the Mary of 2016. Where I erred was to believe that he could not change. Clearly I was wrong. Obviously there have been improvements behind the scenes as well as valuable additions to the playing roster. If his role needed to be reduced to help him I make no criticism. After all I assume he is being paid far less than a supercoach like Wayne Bennett who has the qualities and personality to operate on a much broader and deeper level.

I have been euphoric over each win and I am euphoric that I can attend the ANZAC Day game with the confidence of a strong performance. But at this stage we have played and beaten just 2 teams in the top 8. There is uncertainty over the futures of Widdop and Dugan. Just as the players "take it one game at a time" similarly my euphoria is a week at a time proposition.

Finally there are aspects of Mary's coaching that remain of concern to me. I love Aitken as a highly competitive player. But like so many I wonder when the Aitken/McDonald pairing will cost us a victory. I can recall Aitken's distress at Parra's first try down his right side, the first of many that day. Yet distress or not, the weakness remains to be exploited. Then there is the bench. Great to have players capable of playing big minutes but having promising youngsters sitting on the bench regularly for just 10-15 minutes playing time or worse still not entering the field of play at all hinders rather than enhances their development.

In sum, Mary, congratulations for turning things around. But make changes when weaknesses appear and give thought to how to utilise the bench better. Continue to work hard and after the SOO disruption the club can judge if you deserve re-appointment.

 

[The Damo]

So what can we agree on -
Last year Mary was a disaster;
Terrible selections
Awful, unimaginative, ineffective, shitty game plans
Couldn't score points
Players skills stagnating
Deflecting blame
Bullshit embarrassing excuses
After a year of that I was convinced that he was not salvageable as a coach and was certain we'd be bottom three this year.

This year (only 7 rounds, but still)
Can quibble with selections but given results pretty spot on really
Game plans that are both effective and entertaining - using our second row and centres in attack effectively especially noticeable.
Best attack (numerically anyway) Widdop alone has putscored our whole team at the same point of the year
Players developing - JDB most obvious, Dugan some improvement in passing (ways to go still) aitken faster and better lines etc. would love to keep seeing more here.
Not much blame to go around while winning so will wait to see, but mildly optimistic given some of his statements.
Has ditched the bullshit excuses (so far)
Full judgment will have to wait for most of the year to play out, particularly how we cope with losses (which will come), injuries, adapting as year progresses. But on the evidence so far it looks like he and the club have learned from past mistakes. As we get more evidence then perhaps these conclusions will change buuuuuut....The structures and responsibilities are working, and I'm now thinking we can be a top 6 team at least, and possibly top 4. If Mary can take out current roster to top 4, that would be a remarkable achievement. And then outside of luring one of the very established top coaches out of a contract, it's hard to see where we'd do better.

 

[TomRedVRiver]

This back and forth between Millward and Mary is getting out of hand. It's openly revealing instability and disagreement within the club between two senior members of management. The media will grab this with both hands and will not let it go until the situation is resolved.
Both of them should have kept their mouths shut about where he will be playing next year and deal with that after his retention. Now it puts our coach and recruitment manager at odds, with our star player in between.
This has been handled so poorly.

 

[Ted bartolo]

Talking about the young people on facebook they think we shouldn't have signed hunt ,Macrones the future.All I can say is enjoy the good times but please don't forget the last 5 years.I personally dont think Macgregor can take us to a premiership.And that's what it's all about.I hope he proves me wrong

 

[slippery5]

This back and forth between Millward and Mary is getting out of hand. It's openly revealing instability and disagreement within the club between two senior members of management. The media will grab this with both hands and will not let it go until the situation is resolved.
Both of them should have kept their mouths shut about where he will be playing next year and deal with that after his retention. Now it puts our coach and recruitment manager at odds, with our star player in between.
This has been handled so poorly.

Exactly, I was thinking this is resembling the instability of the Tigers.

 

[The Doc]

The Doc
You need to read all my recent posts before passing such silly judgement on me.
I have been upbeat and rejoiced in the better results of this year and given praise to those whom I normally reserve scorn for.
I expressed an opinion on OV's post and merely pointed out that some of his post is essentially quite correct and indeed relevant.
Whilst you say live in the present 2016 is the immediate past and being reflective to 2011 is not exactly ancient history.
That whole period was so atrocious that people are rejoicing the start to 2017 and saying nothing before matters or has relevancy which is ridiculous.
With the way we have started and the euphoria people are revelling in a minimum top 6 or in fact top 4 finish should be the expectation after normal rounds.
If we were to fall in a hole and miss that position as has been the case previously how would we describe the events up to now?
The euphoric people will say
Oh well it was great whilst it lasted
We are on the improve
We will do better next year

Would they be willing to say
Yet another false Dawn
It was merely and ectopic pregnancy
Other teams were slow to get their shit together which we capitalised on and when they lifted we couldn't go with them so another let down.

The answer to the above will only be known later in the year so no need to ridicule those that are more reticent in their approach to the season thus far. We will only know if the leopard has changed its spots in the fullness of time.
As I said before a c**k that crows too early can meet with a swift death.

OT my bad, my post wasnt clear. The only part to you was the first line.
The rest was in reference to the suicidal parrot.
When i say some fans have issues with back office but still acknowledge and give credit to the actually team (iv mentioned this a few times) its aimed at fans like yourself.
Unlike suicidal parrot, you can put the back office issues aside to talk about how the team is travelling at present.
My issues are OV, or should i say suicidal parrot, repeats the same shit over and over again.
He dismisses any releveant info, such as where the team is placed now, how they are playing, the 5 game win streak... he dismisses it all with the usual dribble about management.
No ones talking management, we are giving credit to mary and the team for giving us what we all wanted the last 5 years... A WINNING TEAM.
No offence was aimed directly at you champion. We butt heads here and there but i know i can communicate with you in a more respectfull and civilised manner then a few others.

 

[Saints Forever]

Just saw a clip of Mary interview

Very interesting

My take on this is that he is far from certain to be coach in 2018.

Basically 2 major if's put forward by Mary.

1) If Duges signs with the red V; and
2) If Mary is Coach in 2018

Duges plays full back

Sounds to me that both if's are currently in doubt.

 

[The Doc]

I seen that interview on league live.
I seen it in a different way.
I saw a man that is basically saying "its my job on the line ill pick what i think is the best team and players".
He mentioned a few times "if im coach next year".
He was letting it be known (to a few that think he has no power or control off the team) that he makes the decisions when it comes to the 17 players that run out.
He seems trying to prove a point that he is the coach, as in to show other possible clubs that he is in actuall fact the reason the team is performing how it is in case he isnt re-signed.
One thing is certain, there are issues between mary and management.
And other thing, duges staying doesn't look like a such a sure thing no more.
With mary saying he is fullback, and will be picked as fullback, Dugans management will not budge on the issue.
Shits about the hit the fan.
Lets hope it doesnt de-rail the teams momentum.

 

[Crush]

It is always appreciated when the

OT, always thought you were a realist but never thought you were such a pessimist.

You make sense yet again, and good on you for offering your undisputed wisdom.

Agree with you that the more reticent should not be ridiculed but nor should the the less reticent, my professor.

Just wish your tone was a bit more laid back for us simple folk enjoying the rare Dragons footy that may or may not expire sooner or later. Just because we're rejoicing at the incredible start to 2017 doesn't mean we're ridiculous or our scars from 2011-2016 have healed.

Thanks for pointing out Objective View was correct in some of his doom and gloom comments. The majority of us may not be as patient as you or as reticent but might be a little euphoric given we're on top with 5 wins on the trot. Each to their own mate, you can reticent away all you like till September, but try to go easy on us simple folk enjoying a rare fix of euphoria.

Of course it may be a false dawn and thanks again for reminding us but I'm pretty optimistic right now and will continue to be so for at least 7 or so more rounds before I consider agreeing with Objective View's sunny outlook.

I'd like to reiterate your own words of wisdom - a c**k that crows too early can meet with a swift death.

A pessimist sees the difficulty in every
opportunity; an optimist sees the the opportunity in every difficulty. Winston Churchill.

I feel privileged and honored to witness such beautiful poetry and to be able to learn from the wise one that is OT.

Has the leopard changed its spots?
Has the c**k crowed too early?
All will be revealed in time.

 

[mickeylane]

He is bascially telling Millward, Dugan will be fullback....get used to it.

As he should be!!!

 

[Old Timer]

OT, always thought you were a realist but never thought you were such a pessimist.

You make sense yet again, and good on you for offering your undisputed wisdom.

Agree with you that the more reticent should not be ridiculed but nor should the the less reticent, my professor.

Just wish your tone was a bit more laid back for us simple folk enjoying the rare Dragons footy that may or may not expire sooner or later. Just because we're rejoicing at the incredible start to 2017 doesn't mean we're ridiculous or our scars from 2011-2016 have healed.

Thanks for pointing out Objective View was correct in some of his doom and gloom comments. The majority of us may not be as patient as you or as reticent but might be a little euphoric given we're on top with 5 wins on the trot. Each to their own mate, you can reticent away all you like till September, but try to go easy on us simple folk enjoying a rare fix of euphoria.

Of course it may be a false dawn and thanks again for reminding us but I'm pretty optimistic right now and will continue to be so for at least 7 or so more rounds before I consider agreeing with Objective View's sunny outlook.

I'd like to reiterate your own words of wisdom - a c**k that crows too early can meet with a swift death.

A pessimist sees the difficulty in every
opportunity; an optimist sees the the opportunity in every difficulty. Winston Churchill.

As i said by all means red my previous posts where I have applauded what we have achieved this year.
Again I am merely pointing out that OV is entitled to his position and currently has more history on his side of the argument in respect of results and is obviously concerned that 6 wins is not enough to dissuade his position re coach and management.
In respect of your Churchill quote may I politely suggest that a quick study of his involvement in WW1 and some of his decision making makes the quote somewhat ironic.
He made very poor decisions in WW1, left Government became a soldier and then returned to parliament after learning leadership but still went onto make many mistakes and make some horrendous decisions.
Churchill a great opportunist but at what cost and if he had been entirely left to his own decisions in WW2 our cost would have been even more devastating.

 

[Objective View]

But to bag the team and coach, when they are giving us fans what we have been craving for 5 years, thats just weak.

1. I haven't bagged the team.

2. I'm craving success in September and October, not the first seven weeks of the season (which half-coach so splendidly delivered in early 2015, as he keeps reminding us).

Straight Shooter

 

[Objective View]

So far he has proven He CAN coach... thats a fact...

On the contrary, his coaching tenure proves the opposite.

If he coached the Sharks last year or the Cows the year before or the Rabbits the year before that, those teams do not win the premiership. Is that so difficult to comprehend? If not, why persist with second best (I'm being polite) options?

Straight Shooter

 

[Objective View]

OV's contention that there are better coaches than Mary is quite correct and it should be our mission to upgrade the coach to the highest level we can achieve. After all that is what the management and recruitment team are paid the big bucks for "to get the best possible outcome everytime".

Nailed it, OT.

We're miles behind the professional clubs lusting for success.

Straight Shooter

 

[Old Timer]

Isn't it convenient, the team is winning so it must be the influence of Mark Coyne and Co and Mary is still shit. So if the team starts losing will that be Mark Coynes fault or McGregors?

If we start losing it could be due to several reasons
1. He reverts back to previous strategies.
2. He stops taking advice
3. He loses the shed
4. We were always imposters and the truth came out as others improved
5. We can't go up a gear when required
If any of these were the reasons behind a dramatic loss in form and repeated losses then Coyne & co are all culpable for not identifying the guy was a loser of a coach and they failed to act.
If Mary goes onto be successful then they got it right and that needs to be acknowledged.
The facts are simple we are going extremely well for the time being and the big difference between the start of this season and previous years was the review and the conclusions reached so obviously that deserves some credit as does Mary for being able to adapt thus far.
Hopefully it all continues.