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Every finals match so far ruined!

Was Walker Offside

  • Yes

    Votes: 11 61.1%
  • No

    Votes: 2 11.1%
  • Too close to call, stay with on-field decision

    Votes: 5 27.8%

  • Total voters
    18

Vee

First Grade
Messages
5,154
That's a stretch, so using some technology they don't use sometime after the match proves them right, but they don't supply the image to prove it ?



View attachment 15374


Looking at this pic you cannot conclusively say he is offside, and given the on field decision was a try there has to be no doubt to overturn it.

Consistency is the issue here.
You're right, looking at that pic, it is hard to say. Looking at the still they showed during the broadcast, it was quite clear to me he was marginally offside.
 

OldPanther

Coach
Messages
13,404
I voted yes. I was sitting almost side on with it at the ground and thought he was offside at the time. It was pretty close though and would have not argued staying with the on field call.
 

soc123_au

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
18,490
I thought he was offside, but I could have copped the bunker staying with a try. It was very close.
 

Vee

First Grade
Messages
5,154
Are the lines they draw on soccer replays not accurate? If not, is there any reason they don't do that for RL?

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...dylan-walker-was-offside-20170912-gyfw13.html

The secret Hawk-Eye technology that shows Manly centre Dylan Walker was offside
Andrew Webster

Hawk-Eye technology secretly trialled during the Manly-Penrith match last Saturday night has revealed Sea Eagles centre Dylan Walker was offside – confirming the decision from the bunker to deny him a crucial try on the night.

As debate about the video referee intensifies, the NRL has confirmed the virtual offside line that has been tested at select matches this season found Walker was slightly in front of Blake Green when a kick was put through.

"We received the video this afternoon and it showed that Walker was offside, according to the technology," NRL general manager of innovation, Luke Gooden, told Fairfax Media.

Walker was denied the try in the second half of the sudden-death finals match after he chased down a Green grubber and scored. The on-field officials considered it a try, but it was overturned by the video referee.

The truth is the NRL has been working away at it all season. As revealed by Fairfax Media in March, the NRL has been working closely with Hawk-Eye experts. It had hoped to introduce the technology by round 13 this year.

The idea has been raised at competition committee meetings and put in front of some coaches, but the feeling is the technology should not be used until it is 100 per cent accurateIndeed, the technology is much more complex than merely Photo-shopping a red line over a screen shot from a TV replay.

"The first thought was you put a line on the screen like it has been done in other sports, but we worked out in rugby league it's a lot more complex for a lot of reasons," Gooden said. "The first part is that there aren't enough cameras. When soccer does it, it's generally around the penalty goal box. With rugby league, it's the whole hundred metres."

The other issue at play is the offside ruling for kicks.

"It's two feet behind the ball," Gooden said. "The referee's interpretation is that it's [in line] with the back of the ball. Then throw into the mix that when the player kicks it, his foot is off the ground."

In other words, it's difficult to determine exactly when the kick has been placed.

For these reasons, Gooden said the NRL wasn't prepared to rush through technology that wasn't quite ready. Given the heat the bunker has been wearing this year, that is understandable.

"It works the majority of the time," he said. "But the times when it causes problems is when it is on the far side of the field and you're trying to see if the winger or centre is on-side because they get smaller in the image. The technology is telling you if it's on or off. The concern is it's not reflected in the image itself. The unanimous view is that it's not quite there. If we throw it in and it tells a 50-50 story for a try, it will cause more problems for the game."

It's understood that some officials strongly oppose the introduction of the virtual offside line because the game is already strangled by too much technology.

But if it is introduced in the future it will be the game's most significant technological advancement since the introduction of the video referee two decades ago.

The technology was secretly trialled at the Auckland Nines and various NRL matches this season.

It is different to the 10-metre offside line hyped in the pre-season by Fox Sports. That was to be used for entertainment purposes – but it is not entirely accurate.

The NRL has been undergoing 3D scanning of all grounds because the camber of each playing surface has also proved problematic.

You wouldn't dream it could be so difficult, would you?
 

SBD82

Coach
Messages
17,007
Correct, they don't.

Hawkeye works in tennis because the court is flat, you are analysing the position of the ball in 2 dimensions (i.e. the ball is on the ground), and you are dealing with a discrepancy of inches from a clearly defined line. The system in cricket mostly works because it is based on a fixed position and calibrated distances; but even then it is probably only about 70% accurate.

In League, the pitch has a convex profile and the distances are significant and almost completely unpredictable. Parallax error can be significant depending on the viewing angle, and lengths are difficult to judge due to scale and perspective. Don't start me on the maths of calculating 3 dimensional distances in a 2 dimensional picture (e.g. when the ball or a foot is not on the ground. And then people (I'm looking at you Slothfield) think you can just draw an arbitrary line on a picture and prove something.

The only way to make it work (and then it would only work if another player was not in the way) would be to have a sideline laser mapping camera (Lidar would work better) that mechanically travels so that it is constantly on the same perpendicular to the sideline as the ball. And when I patent that, I will make millions. Bwahahahaha.

/Nerd mode
You must have taken a wrong turn on the way to a forum that encourages factual posts.
 

Surely

Post Whore
Messages
96,434
The secret technology they trialed earlier but didn't use because it's not accurate enough

Lol you couldn't make that shit up
 

OldPanther

Coach
Messages
13,404
I'm sorry, but I am yet to see any replay that clearly shows Walker offside, unlike the replay that sows clearly that Peachey did not touch the ball.

Somehow I think you are looking at it through slightly biased eyes.

I'll leave you with this - an article from the SMH which would have no bias what so ever.
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...-have-reason-to-complain-20170911-gyf1wa.html

Video verdict: The tape suggests it's extremely difficult to definitely say Walker was offside. Given the on-field ruling of try Manly can feel aggrieved. Dubious decision.

It's now been proven

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...dylan-walker-was-offside-20170912-gyfw13.html
 

kbw

Bench
Messages
2,502
Lots of close calls but most were correct.
The only team really dudded were Parramatta.

Flannagan is a serial whinger and wanker of the highest order. Its funny how he doesn't aknowledge the ones that go his way

There is a problem with refereeing but thats been that way all year, doesn't make it right.
 

Surely

Post Whore
Messages
96,434
Thats the second photo I have seen the other "proving" he is onside. Both are rubbish. The red line in both cases is not paralell to the lines on the field.
Saying that in my opinion Walker WAS offside


Is that I would bet my balls he was offside or I'm not going to risk my family jewels and say he is definitely offside ?
 

Surely

Post Whore
Messages
96,434
Days later people are still arguing for and against these decisions after numerous replays and still shots, yet we slam refs when they have to make a decision in the moment from the only angle they can see!


Exactly, so when there is doubt shouldn't the decision be the one that was sent up to the kfc kitchen ?
 

OldPanther

Coach
Messages
13,404
Dude, it wasn't used in the manly Penrith game because it isn't accurate enough to use yet.

Read the whole story

Yeah I was being lazy but it's one of those calls if it went against us I wouldn't be talking about it. It was a close call that I thought was offside watching at the game but could see it going the other way easily.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,759
Exactly, so when there is doubt shouldn't the decision be the one that was sent up to the kfc kitchen ?

You want to go back to benefit of the doubt? That worked well! I am more than happy for ref to make a decision based on what he and the other 3 refs thought they had seen, if there is video evidence to contrary overturn, if there isn't then you have to make a decision based on something, might as well be the 4 officials who were watching it at the time.
 

Surely

Post Whore
Messages
96,434
Yeah I was being lazy but it's one of those calls if it went against us I wouldn't be talking about it. It was a close call that I thought was offside watching at the game but could see it going the other way easily.


Ftr I dislike manly but I'm speaking from a rules perspective.

There was no conclusive evidence to overturn the onfield call so the refs call should have stood?
 

OldPanther

Coach
Messages
13,404
Ftr I dislike manly but I'm speaking from a rules perspective.

There was no conclusive evidence to overturn the onfield call so the refs call should have stood?

That's how it's suppose to work. They obviously thought it was conclusive for whatever reason. It's one of those things a ref press conference would be good for. Have a limit of 5 questions or something and they can explain a few calls.
 
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