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Our predicted lineup R1

RufusRex

Post Whore
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62,231
As I've mentioned, the drop from Simms to our next best edged back rower (Host) is far les than our drop to our next best prop. Plus Host wouldnt need to play 80mins on the edge, he would be building to that but ideally you'd use that spot to rotate him and Leilua until you can find a way for Leilua to provide impact in the middle.

I don't mind Latimore but do agree with you ... Part of why I thought the thommo for Walmsley rumour ealier on was one that was very exciting. Pity that doesn't look like happening this year.
 

RufusRex

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62,231
PLaying 80mins as an edge backrower and 80mins as a lock are two very different beasts. Friz is definitely an 80minute edge backrower, the only time he gets substituted is when McMoron playing him in the middle for strange reasons.

PLaying JDB for 80 minutes all season would result in a monstrous burnout, and quickly (similar to McInnes). He's got the ability to pull it off if needed but you'd be mad to rely on it all year.


Absolutely ... 65 from JDB and McInnes would be perfect for the team but it needs a bloke who can play 30 min hooker/lock.

McInnes would come on after 15 minutes .. play 25 in the first half, have a half time spell then play the 2nd half
DeBelin would play 15 minutes in the first half, take a 15 minute break then play 10 minutes to finish the 1st half and all the 2nd half.

That uses 2 interchanges and ensures you get a lot more value from both McInnes and DeBelin. as it is now mary uses 2 interchanges to give JDB a break in the 2nd half but if he had a bloke that could start at 9 he could give Jack his break but also spell McInnes and not use any more interchanges to do it.

There is talk of Robson doing this sort of thing for us .. am very interested to see how it works.
 

RufusRex

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Messages
62,231
Latimore is fine, but there's far more upside to Host on that edge.

ok then ..

8. Vaughan, 9. ???, 10. Graham
11. Frizell, 12, Host
13. DeBelin

14. ???
15. Ah Mau - plan for 40 at prop
16. Sims - plan for 40 at prop but can play edge if early injury to Host/Friz
17. Leilua

obviously one of 9/14 is McInness ... just the last spot to fill.
 

Walpole

Juniors
Messages
2,418
ok then ..

8. Vaughan, 9. ???, 10. Graham
11. Frizell, 12, Host
13. DeBelin

14. ???
15. Ah Mau - plan for 40 at prop
16. Sims - plan for 40 at prop but can play edge if early injury to Host/Friz
17. Leilua

obviously one of 9/14 is McInness ... just the last spot to fill.
Could Sele fill in at hooker? He mostly plays in the middle anyway. Hell, Sam Thaiday played a bit there last year so it can't be impossible.
 

RufusRex

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Messages
62,231
Could Sele fill in at hooker? He mostly plays in the middle anyway. Hell, Sam Thaiday played a bit there last year so it can't be impossible.

have suggested that a fair bit as something to try ... could def do the lock part ... still think it was a waste to flick Havili with really no opportuinity given to him

Instructions are not too hard for that role in the first 15 ...
Play 1 - Kick return
Play 2 - DH run from outside back
Play 3 - Pass to Prop
Play 4 - Pass to Prop
Play 5 - Pass to Widdop/Hunt to execute a play
Play 6 - Pass to Widdop/Hunt to kick

For the initial exchanges of a game that could work quite easily ..
 

BennyV

Referee
Messages
22,441
ok then ..

8. Vaughan, 9. ???, 10. Graham
11. Frizell, 12, Host
13. DeBelin

14. ???
15. Ah Mau - plan for 40 at prop
16. Sims - plan for 40 at prop but can play edge if early injury to Host/Friz
17. Leilua

obviously one of 9/14 is McInness ... just the last spot to fill.
I think Robson is the best bet...so f**king dumb to lose Havili...

Could Sele fill in at hooker? He mostly plays in the middle anyway. Hell, Sam Thaiday played a bit there last year so it can't be impossible.
Oh god, don’t get hm started on that...
 

giboz71

First Grade
Messages
8,895
ok then ..

8. Vaughan, 9. ???, 10. Graham
11. Frizell, 12, Host
13. DeBelin

14. ???
15. Ah Mau - plan for 40 at prop
16. Sims - plan for 40 at prop but can play edge if early injury to Host/Friz
17. Leilua

obviously one of 9/14 is McInness ... just the last spot to fill.

McInnes will start at 9 and Mary will likely use Mann for the last bench spot. Cover in case a back is injured.

Whilst many will not agree, if McInnes needs a spell, don’t be surprised if Hunt goes to hooker and Mann slots into the halves. I can almost bet Mary is considering this and possibly explains why Havili wasn’t resigned and why we have no obvious back up hooker (unless we’re considering Nichols for this role).

Sure we could fast track Robson, but this is Mary we’re talking about.
 

RufusRex

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Messages
62,231
McInnes will start at 9 and Mary will likely use Mann for the last bench spot. Cover in case a back is injured.

Whilst many will not agree, if McInnes needs a spell, don’t be surprised if Hunt goes to hooker and Mann slots into the halves. I can almost bet Mary is considering this and possibly explains why Havili wasn’t resigned and why we have no obvious back up hooker (unless we’re considering Nichols for this role).

Sure we could fast track Robson, but this is Mary we’re talking about.


Hunt played 9 at the nags for 2 reasons ...
1. Nikorima
2. He was leaving


Mann has proved that he is absolutely not a 7 .. a running 6 if anything but not your organiser ...
So yes I agree that we are likely to see Mann play 7 and Hunt at 9 because of the fooknuckle in charge.



As for covering an injured back ... as said any of Sims/Friz/Host even Leilua could slot into the centres if a back went down. Plus we have JDB who could play 7 ;-)
 

RufusRex

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Messages
62,231
as far as Mann off the bench goes .. last season Mary's use of the bench meant that he kept one sub up his sleeve for a replacement and a fresh back on the bench. The problem was when there were obvious issues in the backs ie Eels rd 2 he didn't use the option he had ... it was a complete waste.

I think the team is better off planning around using a bench of 4 forwards and ensuring the rest of the team can cope with the loss of a back. Our initial plan is to balance the workload of all our 10 forwards to ensure a reasonable level of impact all game.

Thommo was a bloke who could play centre but the differences between edge forward and centre are gradually disappearing ... In a pinch we have plenty that could shuffle into the backs if required.
 

Carlton

Juniors
Messages
1,223
Ummm...Nighty managed 5 try assists last year in his limited appearances at FB. Dufty managed 3 in 6 games. Both would have ended up with double digit TA’s if they played a full season at FB (which should be par for a FG fullback). All with the same players and same coach.

So no, I don’t agree with you. The lack of success running backline moves with Josh at FB was largely on him I’m afraid.


If I remember correctly two of Dufty's three try assists came in one match and at least one of those he should have scored himself not passed it. I dont think he ran the sweep play successfully either.

The sweep play needs options and halves that can get the defence in two minds about who is getting the ball and whether they are going to run themselves, we didn't have that.
 

giboz71

First Grade
Messages
8,895
If I remember correctly two of Dufty's three try assists came in one match and at least one of those he should have scored himself not passed it. I dont think he ran the sweep play successfully either.

The sweep play needs options and halves that can get the defence in two minds about who is getting the ball and whether they are going to run themselves, we didn't have that.

Yes agreed, but if you watched the games that Dufty and Nighty started at FB, it was plain as day our set plays and backline movement in general was much more slick. Simply by the fact that the ball didn’t stop when it needed to be shifted. And this despite our shit halfback and slow wingers. We won plenty of games and scored plenty of points when Dufty and Nighty played there.

So if a 6 game rookie and an ageing winger playing fullback could improve our backline, imagine if we had a bona fide specialist fullback who didn’t stifle a backline playing for us?
 

Dragon66

Juniors
Messages
640
Dont mind the line up and I agree on Herbert being ready when his chance comes. Not sure of the value of Aitken off the bench, and still disagree with Nightingale being a walk up starter but thats all been done before.

But my real question for these line ups where Simms starts in teh second row - what's the bench strategy? Other than Ah Mau, you've got got 2 specialist edge backrowers, one of whom is most effective as a long-minute player, and a centre being converted to a forwards (which would be far more effectively done with increase game time in reserve grade) who's never played in the middle and presumably will fill a role of 'in case of injury'.
Is the plan to play either Host or Leilua at prop? Because neither of them are anywhere near our 4th best prop.
Is the intention to rotate Simms or Friz to the middle? If so, why are they wasting their energy in the opening exchanges only to then be expected to maintain high intensity as a prop after 20 mins? Would be far better for them to start on the bench.
Or are we thinking of playing with a 3 prop, 4 backrow rotation? And who is to cover McInnes?

All well and good to say 'rotate 4 forwards' but there needs to be some logic behind it with only 8 interchanges. No point having a beast of a forward pack if we dont know how to use it.


Hi Benny, always a pleasure to have a conversation with you. Apologies for the delay responding, I'm a slow typer so I need plenty of time when I get to sit in front of the screen. lol.

I take your point about the importance of the rotation but from my perspective it more about the attributes, ability, and impact of each player on the bench.

I always believe you should start every game with your best available personnel at the start of the game. The six starting forwards, in my view, are our best six forwards in the club.

So let's start with the starting six.

Graham - A Champion Middle player - a fierce competitor with ball skills.
Vaughan - A specialist Middle player - High workmate, quick off the mark with good footwork at the line, can unload.
McInnes - an 80 minute hooker - Maybe later in the season as Robson develops would you promote Robson to the bench to ease the load on McInnes.
Frizzell - A powerhouse of a player, a great edge player but with limited ball skills, and based on last seasons efforts, very effective when used in the middle. Adds impact when bought into the middle.
Simms - experienced edge player but performed extremely well when moved to the middle last season. Has a very good offload.
JDB - Our best defender, not really very damaging when he is carrying the ball but effective, can play long minutes, and performs well as a link man on the edge of the ruck.

AhMau - a specialist Middle player. Rarely offloads the ball, works hard in defence, and can make good metres up the middle.

Host - At 105kg's he is big enough and strong enough to play in the middle, but only as a substitute for JDB. But for mine he should be primarily an edge player , because he is mobile and fast.

Leilua - A giant of a man, with Arthur Beetson like ball skills, but not suited to the middle because of concerns over his stamina. Hitting the edges with size and speed, and the ability to find a speedster like Dufty or link with other support runners will make him a very lethal weapon as an edge player.

Aitken - Primarily there to cover a backline injury because of his NRL experience, BUT is one of the fittest players in the club with 57 NRL games to his credit. He a strong runner of the ball as we saw on some of the tries he scored last year and has an effective tackling technique in defence. He would easily fill an edge role, or a defensive slot in the middle if required. A Josh Jackson style player.

To recap:

The Middle can be controlled at different periods of the game by all our starting forwards, plus AhMau and Host.

With Simms, Frizzell, Host, Leilua and Aitken taking turns on the edges.

How they are rotated is up to the coach.

What I don't want is a plodder like Latimore. I have no thoughts on Allgood yet, lets see what his form is like during the trails - he may surprise. As for the rest I don't think they offer anything much different to what my Round One lineup gives us.

And as for Mann, what's the point of having him sit on the bench to just come onto the field with 10 minutes to go when the game is as good as over. I rather he played 80 minutes in the reggies to give himself every chance to impress for a starting spot, or to replace Lafai, Nighty or McDonald depending on their form or to come in in the event of an injury.
 
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Dragon66

Juniors
Messages
640
Quick question - Does anyone know what the story is with Ash Nesbitt?

I know he is probably a ISP player on, but he has good form in the lower grades; and he is a fair lump of a lad.

Only 22, 102kgs and tall, and a former Aussie Schoolboy rep.

No mention from theDragons site, or the NSW RL website, only on the various In and Out for 2018 lists.

Anyone is he training with senior squad? I would expect he would be a bench player, and a good one at that, for the reggies.
 

Hills Dragon

Juniors
Messages
139
1. Dufty
2. MacDonald/new recruit
3. Aitken
4. Lafai
5. Lomax
6. Widdop
7. Hunt
8. Graham
9. McInnes
10. Vaughan
11. Frizell
12. Host
13. De Belin

14. Leilua
15. Sims
16. Ah Mau
17. Mann/Sele

I'm happy to rotate Host and Leilua for that starting spot depending on who we're up against and how well either player is performing. I also think that the club will pick up a winger. We have some money to spend in that position so keep your eyes peeled.
I have a feeling the club are comfortable with the centres we currently have at the club, I doubt they would purchase a top-line centre and risk blocking Lomax's path. He's going to be that good. I'm happy to give Aitken/Lafai another crack too because when they're at full flight, they're actually quite a strong centre pairing.

The rest of the team picks itself in my opinion.
I'd turf MacDonald before I'd turf Nightingale.
 

Sheridan Stand

Juniors
Messages
427
As a predicted line-up I think they have it probably right. Not that I agree with it it is probably what it will be.
My lineup would be:
1. Dufty
2 & 5. Mann and Nene
3 & 4. Aitken and Lafai
6.Widdop
7. Hunt
8. Graham
9. McInnes
10. Vaughan
11. Friz
12. Host
13. JDB
14. LAM
15. Sims
16. Leilua
17. Sele

Unfortunately Nighty misses out just cant find a place for him in a team that beeds to be going forward.
Having a utility back is a waste of time and if McGregor wants to persist with the power game he needs to have 4 forwards that can be rotated if necessary.
Burn-out was our biggest issue last season, i think 4 forwards on the bench would go a long way of solving that problem.
Our coach was our biggest issue last year.

This is his last chance saloon - we miss top 4 he should be gone - if we miss top 8 he should be sent to Siberia on a one way ticket
 

Saint_JimmyG

First Grade
Messages
5,067
Hunt played 9 at the nags for 2 reasons ...
1. Nikorima
2. He was leaving


Mann has proved that he is absolutely not a 7 .. a running 6 if anything but not your organiser ...
So yes I agree that we are likely to see Mann play 7 and Hunt at 9 because of the fooknuckle in charge.



As for covering an injured back ... as said any of Sims/Friz/Host even Leilua could slot into the centres if a back went down. Plus we have JDB who could play 7 ;-)

If "McFooknuckle" had any nous, he could've tried Widdop at half (who I believe would've adapted) with Mann at five-eighth.

Then again, I said the same thing when Marshall was around.

Unfortunately, the 'coach' lacks common sense and any proclivity to take a gamble - excluding installing JDB at halfback,
 

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