22 years on has England got worse?

[Perth Red]

Comparison of the two RLWC final sides of 1995 v 2017

Arguably the 1995 backline was better quality. How has 20 years of SL funding and FT status seen England get worse?

FB 1 Gareth Widdop Kris Radlinski
WG 2 Jermaine McGillvary Jason Robinson
CE 3 Kallum Watkins Gary Connolly
CE 4 John Bateman Paul Newlove
WG 5 Ryan Hall Martin Offiah
FE 6 Kevin Brown Tony Smith
HB 7 Luke Gale Bobbie Goulding
PR 8 Chris Hill Karl Harrison
HK 9 James Roby Lee Jackson
PR 10 James Graham Andy Platt
SR 11 Ben Currie Denis Betts (c)
SR 12 Elliott Whitehead Phil Clarke
LK 16 Sam Burgess (c) Andy Farrell

 

[latingringo101]

It's like comparing the 1992 Dream Team vs Team USA. Both great sides in different Tournaments.

I think the 2017 team would beat the 1995 side, the Bennett factor definitely showed in the Tournament and they were able to make the final on the other side of the world (with great performances in both Oz and NZ).

 

[RL The greatest game]

The problems the English teams have is they only think short term.
The would sooner pay a fading NRL player over the odds instead of investing in junior development. There lies their problem and will continue to be their problem.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I think England / GB went through a dip after 1995 but are starting to get back to that level of team now.

 

[axl rose]

Offiah and Robinson were big names but were a non-event against Australia. Suited to the turnstile defences in SL and Union only.

Bennett got them committed and fixed their defence but skill-wise they were still average. They finally get a good forward pack and a half now they cant find a strike centre. And by the time they find one their forwards will be retired.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Offiah and Robinson were big names but were a non-event against Australia. Suited to the turnstile defences in SL and Union only.

Bennett got them committed and fixed their defence but skill-wise they were still average. They finally get a good forward pack and a half now they cant find a strike centre. And by the time they find one their forwards will be retired.

Do you think they had a decent half at the world cup? I think they lacked in the halves and I thought Watkins in the centres was world class.

In terms of the future, England always seem to produce great forward packs so I don't think that will change, they just need halves that can control a game. I like the look of George Williams as a future England number 7 - looks quality. Widdop looked amazing at full-back and Watkins-McGillvary combo was awesome. I think they are only going to get better.

 

[Perth Red]

Offiah and Robinson were big names but were a non-event against Australia. Suited to the turnstile defences in SL and Union only.

.

Didn't Offiah score a hat trick for St's in '91? Must have been pretty sht defences in the Winfield cup as well.


Glory days! Offiah at 4mins showing up the Kangaroos

 

[Perth Red]

I think England / GB went through a dip after 1995 but are starting to get back to that level of team now.

early 90's were the best I've seen them in the 35 years I've been watching them. Started to go down hill as soon as SL started in 1995! Which is weird as they should have got better going fulltime!

 

[latingringo101]

I think it's also important to remember Australia and NZ sent half strength teams to the 95 tournament due to the Super League war. England had a close to full strength squad.

In 2017 England played against a full strength Kangaroos team on the other side of the world and we're respectable in both encounters.

 

[Perth Red]

Respectable playing a Melbourne style strangling game, as did Australia leading to one of the poorest attacking international games I can remember for a long time. Its a shame when you look at the 90's tests to see how poor that final was for attacking flair that showcased world class status of the players. I guess we can thank Bellamy and Bennett for that.

 

[Teddyboy]

Jaso

Offiah and Robinson were big names but were a non-event against Australia. Suited to the turnstile defences in SL and Union only.

Bennett got them committed and fixed their defence but skill-wise they were still average. They finally get a good forward pack and a half now they cant find a strike centre. And by the time they find one their forwards will be retired.

Billy Whizz did get a nice try against Wigans win against the Broncos in 1994.

 

[thorson1987]

I think it's also important to remember Australia and NZ sent half strength teams to the 95 tournament due to the Super League war. England had a close to full strength squad.

In 2017 England played against a full strength Kangaroos team on the other side of the world and we're respectable in both encounters.

Wasn't NZ full strength as the NZRL had signed for SL?

 

[Coastbloke]

Wasn't NZ full strength as the NZRL had signed for SL?

I assume some Kiwis were signed with ARL aligned clubs. I can't remember if they could be selected..??

 

[thorson1987]

I assume some Kiwis were signed with ARL aligned clubs. I can't remember if they could be selected..??

Richie Barnett - Cronulla-Sutherland Sharks
Richie Blackmore - Auckland Warriors
Syd Eru 1 - Auckland Warriors
Gary Freeman - Penrith Panthers
Daryl Halligan - Canterbury Bulldogs
Sean Hoppe - Auckland Warriors
Mark Horo - Western Suburbs Magpies
Kevin Iro - Leeds Rhinos
Tony Iro - Sydney City Roosters
Stacey Jones - Auckland Warriors
Stephen Kearney - Auckland Warriors
Tony Kemp - South Queensland Crushers
John Lomax - Canberra Raiders
Jason Lowrie - Sydney City Roosters
Gene Ngamu - Auckland Warriors
Hitro Okesene - Auckland Warriors
Henry Paul - Wakefield Trinity Wildcats
Quentin Pongia - Canberra Raiders
Matthew Ridge (c) - Manly Sea Eagles
Brent Stuart - Western Suburbs Magpies
John Timu - Canterbury Bulldogs
Brendon Tuuta - Western Reds
Ruben Wiki - Canberra Raiders
Jason Williams - Canterbury Bulldogs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_at_the_1995_Rugby_League_World_Cup

Looks pretty full strength to me. The ARL had no say over who the NZRL could pick.

 

[latingringo101]

Wasn't NZ full strength as the NZRL had signed for SL?

I stand corrected, looks like the Aussies were the only team who decided to pick a half strength team

 

[Wizardman]

Comparison of the two RLWC final sides of 1995 v 2017

Arguably the 1995 backline was better quality. How has 20 years of SL funding and FT status seen England get worse?

FB 1 Gareth Widdop Kris Radlinski
WG 2 Jermaine McGillvary Jason Robinson
CE 3 Kallum Watkins Gary Connolly
CE 4 John Bateman Paul Newlove
WG 5 Ryan Hall Martin Offiah
FE 6 Kevin Brown Tony Smith
HB 7 Luke Gale Bobbie Goulding
PR 8 Chris Hill Karl Harrison
HK 9 James Roby Lee Jackson
PR 10 James Graham Andy Platt
SR 11 Ben Currie Denis Betts (c)
SR 12 Elliott Whitehead Phil Clarke
LK 16 Sam Burgess (c) Andy Farrell

I'd argue that Currie and Whitehead were better than Betts and Clarke. Clarke was good and solid but Betts was a tad overrated for mine. Agree with you with the halves and backs though.

 

[crewley]

They were certainly much better before than now

 

[Springs09]

Could say the same about Australia though

The 80s/90s Kangaroo teams were a lot more dominant, even though half of the Kangaroo side last year are the greatest players to have ever lived according to many in the media.

 

[DC80]

Jaso

Billy Whizz did get a nice try in Wigans win against the Broncos in 1994.

Best winger I’ve seen in rugby league. The way he could shift direction in the blink of an eye was his greatest asset. He’s facing you and then one step to the side and he’s gone. The best operator in confined space in the game he could go past someone inside a phone booth.

One of very few rugby league (or union) players who would be known to the sporting public at large. I reckon if you were to ask people they would say Jason Robinson and Jonny Wilkinson.

While obviously quick himself Offiah didn’t have the rapid lateral movement of Robinson. Given space Offiah would kill you, difference with Robinson he didn’t need space.

 

[Teddyboy]

Best winger I’ve seen in rugby league. The way he could shift direction in the blink of an eye was his greatest asset. He’s facing you and then one step to the side and he’s gone. The best operator in confined space in the game he could go past someone inside a phone booth.

One of very few rugby league (or union) players who would be known to the sporting public at large. I reckon if you were to ask people they would say Jason Robinson and Jonny Wilkinson.

While obviously quick himself Offiah didn’t have the rapid lateral movement of Robinson. Given space Offiah would kill you, difference with Robinson he didn’t need space.

The Wigan team of the late 1980s to mid mid 90s was full of fantastic players but Robinson was my fav play be it in both codes.