Tevita Pangai Junior off contract.

[Old Timer]

We are a club on the up. We could even be genuine premiership contenders next year. The addition of Pangai, would give us the best pack of forwards in the comp and depth in the front row. He would also suit our power game. I don't see Wests or Penrith as genuine premiership contenders next year. Penrith may not be able to hold onto Cleary. If they lose him, they are back to square one. We have got Hunt signed up for the until 2022 and Widdop signed up until 2021. I believe that we have a better pack of forwards that Penrith and Wests. We also have some very promising backs in Lomax, Sailor, Field, Marsters and Matherson Johns.

As for Kerr, he never had the wraps on him that Pangai had, we had/have hopes for Kerr. He isn't being spoken of as a potential origin player this year or any other year. I hope he does make it, Pangai looks like he had already made it. I think James Graham is also a good mentor for a young prop, be it either Pangai or Kerr.

Frank
How many young players have developed to their potential at our club in the last 6 years?
You say we are a club on the up so please tell me which young players are benefiting and prospering in our system?
You say Graham would be a good mentor for a young proper and I agree so who does Mc Fookknuckle give him on the bench Latimore hello anyone home.
I can here the approach now
"Come to StGI and be part of the system where our career coach and former test centre is incapable of teaching his own centres how to defend or attack and has a healthy desire to pick journeymen ahead of developing players"
For Pangai to come here would be like committing suicide.

 

[BennyV]

Frank
How many young players have developed to their potential at our club in the last 6 years?
You say we are a club on the up so please tell me which young players are benefiting and prospering in our system?
You say Graham would be a good mentor for a young proper and I agree so who does Mc Fookknuckle give him on the bench Latimore hello anyone home.
I can here the approach now
"Come to StGI and be part of the system where our career coach and former test centre is incapable of teaching his own centres how to defend or attack and has a healthy desire to pick journeymen ahead of developing players"
For Pangai to come here would be like committing suicide

While that’s true, it’s somewhat irrelevant. If we have the opportunity to sign a guy like Pangai (not that we do) then we should definitely be taking it. He’s far superior to Lawrie, Leilua and Kerr and he’s not just a prop - played edge backrow as a youngster. Would be a massive addition.

He fact that we have the ploddiest coach in the league doesn’t mean we shouldn’t aim for the absolute best squad we can when a real coach takes over.

 

[BennyV]

Is there a player in the league that someone on this forum dosnt want to buy?

I don't want to buy a premiership.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not against buying a player or two.
Hunt was a good buy after spending years trying to nurture a home grown half.
Vaughn was a good buy after being underrated at his old club.
Graham was a good buy cause the Bulldogs are picking up a lot of his tab.

But jeez, there's people on here that want to buy a full team.

Cool story. Personally, I’d rather us win. But, y’know, each to their own! Good thing we’ve got a home-grown, local coaching staff to accomodate the talent we are buying, right?!

 

[Old Timer]

While that’s true, it’s somewhat irrelevant. If we have the opportunity to sign a guy like Pangai (not that we do) then we should definitely be taking it. He’s far superior to Lawrie, Leilua and Kerr and he’s not just a prop - played edge backrow as a youngster. Would be a massive addition.

He fact that we have the ploddiest coach in the league doesn’t mean we shouldn’t aim for the absolute best squad we can when a real coach takes over.

Don't get me wrong I would also like to see him in red and white but as I say, he would be committing suicide to come under this regime.
He still has a lot of developing to do and that just won't happen here.
Just on player development I think that before too long there will be a major battle of wills between Mc Fookknuckle and Graham and it will be interesting to see how that pans out.
I think Mc Fookknuckle will initially listen to Graham and then as we are building he will then try to fly solo (with the usual disastrous consequences) as he will want to grab any accolades on offer for himself.

 

[Walpole]

We have plenty of good juniors, but somewhere along the line their development is being stifled.

Pangai was captain of the Junior Kangaroos in 2016. Nathan Cleary was in the halves, Coen Hess was in the back row and Jacob Host was off the bench.

Last year Blake Lawrie was in Pangai's front row spot. Surely the potential is there for Host and Lawrie to develop, especially with a leader like Graham in the pack and quality forwards like Friz, JDB and Vaughan around.

 

[Frank Facer]

Having Graham on the bench is an absolute waste for him as he's a long minute player, Pangai's going to be a great player but he won't be getting the minutes here and won't be getting a start over JDB/Vaughan/Graham.

Money would be much better spent in getting a top line wing or centre.

Next year could be Graham's last year. Then we will need another good prop to replace him. Signing Pangai would put us ahead of the game.

 

[Frank Facer]

Frank
How many young players have developed to their potential at our club in the last 6 years?
You say we are a club on the up so please tell me which young players are benefiting and prospering in our system?
You say Graham would be a good mentor for a young proper and I agree so who does Mc Fookknuckle give him on the bench Latimore hello anyone home.
I can here the approach now
"Come to StGI and be part of the system where our career coach and former test centre is incapable of teaching his own centres how to defend or attack and has a healthy desire to pick journeymen ahead of developing players"
For Pangai to come here would be like committing suicide.

I disagree that Pangai would be committing suicide coming to play for us. He would be coming to play for a genuine premiership contender and be a part of one of the best packs in the game.

 

[dragonssamy61]

He is not coming.
End of discussion.
He will be at the Broncos or knight's.

 

[RufusRex]

we are actually starting to get to a point where investment in a winger may be worth it.
I mean last year our right wing was playing outside Dugan/Aitken/Frizell and McCrone ... not sure we even needed a winger in attack in that instance.

However with Hunt/Dufty in the mix then there may be value in having a winger frinally on both sides.

I think the balance in the pack is right (barring injury of course).

3 x Very good props means we can develop a prop through the bench and start to future proof ourselves.

A left edge back rower who plays long mintues would be nice - however I actually think we have that bloke already.


The balance between quality NRL experience and developing talent is close to what we need. If you invest and spend big on all those positions then we go into a 2010-2017 wilderness where you might get a result but the next few years are torrid.

You need quality on the park but also an obvious succession plan/path.

 

[dragonssamy61]

Well said Rufus

 

[Old Timer]

I disagree that Pangai would be committing suicide coming to play for us. He would be coming to play for a genuine premiership contender and be a part of one of the best packs in the game.

So you must think Mc Fookknuckle can win a premiership?
Top 10 finish he will survive top 8 a further 2 year extension.
With him here we will only be pretenders regardless of the roster.

 

[Frank Facer]

So you must think Mc Fookknuckle can win a premiership?
Top 10 finish he will survive top 8 a further 2 year extension.
With him here we will only be pretenders regardless of the roster.

Yes, I actually think that we could win a premiership, if we have the best roster in the comp, with Mary or with another coach. We will go well this year, because we have a better roster than we did last year or any other year that Mary was coaching us. Coaches don't win premierships unless they have the the players to win a premiership. I can guarantee you that Brisbane are not going to win the comp this year, because Bennett doesn't have the players there to win a comp.

I can also guarantee you that Wests are not going to win the comp this year, because Cleary doesn't have the players to win the comp.

 

[Old Timer]

Yes, I actually think that we could win a premiership, if we have the best roster in the comp, with Mary or with another coach. We will go well this year, because we have a better roster than we did last year or any other year that Mary was coaching us. Coaches don't win premierships unless they have the the players to win a premiership. I can guarantee you that Brisbane are not going to win the comp this year, because Bennett doesn't have the players there to win a comp.

I can also guarantee you that Wests are not going to win the comp this year, because Cleary doesn't have the players to win the comp.

By the same token some coaches will never win anything despite the roster they have & Mc Fookknuckle is certainly in that category.
You are being hoodwinked into believing he can deliver a premiership and it is that belief the buffoon relies on to keep his job.
His training wheels keep falling off and people keep putting them back on and in the meantime players with great potential are having their careers waisted.
By the way don’t forget to get back to me re which young players have prospered under him?

 

[BennyV]

Coaches don't win premierships unless they have the the players to win a premiership.

While thats true, players also dont just win premierships unless they have a decent coach to guide them there.

You need a solid roster and a coach to utilise it, as well as a bit of luck with injuries etc. We are building the roster but Mary is simply not up to it. Best we can hope for ATM is a Top 8 finish and week 2 of the finals. And that’s sad.

 

[Frank Facer]

I think any coach would struggle to win a comp with our wingers and centre that we currently have. If you put East's or Melbourne's 1 to 5 in our team. Then we could win a comp this year, even with Mary as coach. Mary is not going to stop us winning a comp. He is not going to miss any tackles, make any handling errors, make poor referring decisions. make poor defensive reads etc. He is not going to make players play badly.

I think we can make the top 4. I think we will make the top 6, because of the roster that we have.

 

[Dragonslayer]

I think any coach would struggle to win a comp with our wingers and centre that we currently have. If you put East's or Melbourne's 1 to 5 in our team. Then we could win a comp this year, even with Mary as coach. Mary is not going to stop us winning a comp. He is not going to miss any tackles, make any handling errors, make poor referring decisions. make poor defensive reads etc. He is not going to make players play badly.

I think we can make the top 4. I think we will make the top 6, because of the roster that we have.

"Mary is not going to stop us winning a comp"!

I beg to differ.
McGregor is the one who selects the team
McGregor is the one who sets the game plan
McGregor is the one who controls the bench rotation

True, McGregor doesnt miss tackles etc
But isnt that a skill set that a coach actually has to not only review but put plans in place to rectify it at training etc.

Whilst I understand your point the fact is it is the coach's job to coach/train/mentor/manage the team. Without these things we will not win a comp and at present McGregor is lacking in so many of those qualities.

 

[Collateral]

Vunivalu end of 2020

Mate, Vainikolo will be 40 in 2020.

It’s a no from me.

 

[Frank Facer]

So if we do make the top 4 this year, are the Mary bashers going to say that we made the top 4 because we have a good coach, or are they going to say, we made the top 4 because we have a superior roster than we did in previous years that Mary coached us? I am sure it will be the later.

Supercoach Jack Gibson said that the best coach is the best recruiter. He meant that the best coach is the one who has the best players at his disposal. Gibson also said that if you have got the best halfback, then you are half way there (to winning a comp), he was referring to having Peter Sterling as his halfback at the time, who is one of the top 3 halfbacks I have seen along with Johns and Thurston.

We were leading the comp after 8 rounds or so last year, with the worst halfback in the comp and a team that was tipped by many to get the wooden spoon and Mary was our coach. At the time, Mary looked like the best coach in the game. lol We now have Ben Hunt as our halfback. That makes a massive difference than having Mcrone as our halfback. As I previously said, I think Bennett restricted Hunts game, while Mary is giving him a licence to take control of the team and to play both sides of the field. I have also predicted that Hunt will find career best form this year. If he does so will that be because of Mary?

I have Easts as one of the 3 teams that can win the comp this year, that isn't because they have Robinson as their coach, it is because of the roster that they have. If Mary was coaching Easts this year, with the roster they have, I would still have them as one of the 3 teams who I think can with the comp.

Bennett who many on this site think is the Messiah has not won another comp in the last 7 years and won't be winning one this year either, because he doesn't have the cattle to win a comp.

 

[RufusRex]

ah .. would we win in spite of or because of ...

interesting question ...

I still think forward rotation is off and not with the 4th bench player ... it is the 3rd to me that seems a little underused. The bench props rotate well .. The 4th is a reserve and we are not the only team to do that ...

However if we use the 3rd bench player for 10 minutes a game then we may struggle at the back end of the season. This is the interchange that usually gives a breather to the lock or even edge forwards. So the workload of Sims/Frizell/Jack is lessened by the 3rd bench interchange.

In the days last season where Friz was getting interchanged off 2-3 times we would see the third benchie get 10 minutes and the final bench emergency replacement 0 .. That is where the issues come into it.

Lets see how the season unfolds.

Mary's eventual decision to bring Dufty in late last season may have a positive impact this year as will hunt .. though Hunt has been linked to us off and on for at least 6 years (Dubopov originally posted our interest in him a long time back).

Mary is developing - it is almost unavoidable ..
The business decision to invest so much time to develop a coach who was not ready though has had an impact on our bottom line ... lets hope it pays off in the long run.

 

[possm]

We need a 4th prop this year. Latimore can do the job but he is very average. That's why the Sharks let him go. kerr and Lawrie are yet to step up in reserve grade and Allwood was/is a waste of money.