Do you want Brad Arthur as coach

[Happy MEel]

You need one further stat, touches of the ball.

I think last night (I could be wrong) it was mentioned at one stage during the game that Norman had 44 or so touches of the ball compared to Moses 24 or so.

If that stat is correct and consistent during the year, you wouId probably assume Norman should have a lot better attacking stats as he touches the nearly double.

And looking at those stats Norman stats aren’t 50% better then Moses even though he gets 50% more opportunities then Moses.

See above.

 

[hineyrulz]

Yeah no I'm not.

The same forwards that had punch last year have been soft for most of the year.

I have also said that our halves lack results in the red zone. Apart from repeat sets, which I believe our team is one of the best. Strangely we fail to covert that stat to points.

On the whole most of our players have not lived up to their pay grade. Very disappointing.

So the forwards have been soft and the players haven’t earn’t their pay packets is that it??? What a simplistic view

 

[Gronk]

So the forwards have been soft and the players haven’t earn’t their pay packets is that it??? What a simplistic view

Yeah no it's not. Forwards getting dominated and a backline not playing to their potential is a massive problem for any club. Add to that stupid errors and bonehead penalties and it's probably a solid formula to coming last.

Tied last with the Cows who have GOATS. Is it all Paul Green's fault up north ?

 

[Happy MEel]

On the whole most of our players have not lived up to their pay grade. Very disappointing.

Spot on...the coaching staff haven’t either.

 

[Gronk]

Spot on...the coaching staff haven’t either.

Well they are all under contract until 2019. Dilemma huh ?

 

[Happy MEel]

Well they are all under contract until 2019. Dilemma huh ?

So is Norman.

 

[Gronk]

So is Norman.

That's the balance that the Eels team have to work with.

If you cut the coach you have to pay him his $1m a year for 2019 and then pay the new coach huge coin as well. Will you get $1.5M-$3M value out of the new coach in 2019 ?

Can you hook Norman and pay say $200k of his last year and can the new 6 play better ? Who else of the under performers do you cut and how much of their wage do you need to subsidise ?

Conundrum.

PS Do you know that there is a football department salary cap now ? Did you know that if you sack the coach then we'll need to cut funding in other areas ?

----8<-----

Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs officials may have avoided playing this season with up to $1 million less than rival clubs for football department spending by parting ways with Des Hasler last September.

While the Bulldogs could still be forced to pay $1 million to Hasler if he succeeds in legal action against the club, the amount won't be included in the new NRL football department salary cap.

However, any coach sacked this year will have his wages or any financial settlement counted as part of the club's $5.7 million ceiling on football department expenditure, along with the cost of hiring a replacement.

https://www.nrl.com/news/2018/02/05/winning-starts-monday-nrl-coaches-get-extra-job-security/

 

[hindy111]

And the coach always gets off scott free in Gronk world.

Players may not be responding to coach as they lost faith in his leadership. Possible players like fans getting sick of hearing the same shit and it doesnt seem to work but he persists with it.
It may of worked for a while but players might be bored with it now.
Just a thought.
People have to wonder why our halves and fullbacks form is off.
Imagine at training all BA is saying is completions and kick chase and no variations in attack. Be a head f**k

 

[Happy MEel]

That's the balance that the Eels team have to work with.

If you cut the coach you have to pay him his $1m a year for 2019 and then pay the new coach huge coin as well. Will you get $1.5M-$3M value out of the new coach in 2019 ?

Can you hook Norman and pay say $200k of his last year and can the new 6 play better ? Who else of the under performers do you cut and how much of their wage do you need to subsidise ?

Conundrum.

PS Do you know that there is a football department salary cap now ? Did you know that if you sack the coach then we'll need to cut funding in other areas ?

----8<-----

Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs officials may have avoided playing this season with up to $1 million less than rival clubs for football department spending by parting ways with Des Hasler last September.

While the Bulldogs could still be forced to pay $1 million to Hasler if he succeeds in legal action against the club, the amount won't be included in the new NRL football department salary cap.

However, any coach sacked this year will have his wages or any financial settlement counted as part of the club's $5.7 million ceiling on football department expenditure, along with the cost of hiring a replacement.

https://www.nrl.com/news/2018/02/05/winning-starts-monday-nrl-coaches-get-extra-job-security/

Yep I’m aware of this. I also agreed with Gary earlier today that bringing an attacking specialist coach is probably the most feasible option for 2019 because BA/Murphy/Grima are certainly not up to that role. Andrew Johns would be nice but probably out of the question.

My rants this morning though have focused on Norman because there is plenty of talk he won’t be here next year. That should only be considered if there’s an equal or better option available. As it stands we’re in a good position because we have both Norman and Moses off contract at the end of 2019. Hopefully Brown is ready for 2020 and we re-sign whichever half we think will work with him into the future. Bringing anyone decent in now will require us to have them on our books longer than we need/want as it’s unlikely they’ll take a one year contract.

 

[ash411]

You know what @Gary Gutful , I’ll do it for you...

We’re talking about a halves comparison so I’ll remove the game Norman played at fullback. They have both played 16 games in the halves this year and their total number of possessions are below (champion data):

Norman: 779
Moses: 645

Norman certainly touches the ball more but only about 20% more. Norman’s LBA, TA, Avg running metres, forced drop outs and offloads are all more than 20% higher than Moses’.

Anything else?

Norman is the more experienced half, no? Wouldn't it be expected that he get more ball and have better relative stats than Moses?

And also, would he be held to a higher standard, given his level of experience and ability? Basically what I'm getting at, is that Norman is copping more shit than Moses because perhaps more is expected of Norman, where Moses is expected to do less, and is therefore closer to expectations than Norman?

 

[TheParraboy]

I think with the players there may be a sense of comfort zone syndrome. This is BAs fault for creating this atmosphere or culture no one else. He has signed everyone together and I think a lot of the players have had it too cushy.

We are trying our asses off most of the time but mentally we are not switched on, its apparent most of the players love BA as coach but either execution or dumb idiot errors are costing us, due to poor concentration. Injuries didn't help us this year, no question. But the simpleton errors we have made are beyond believe and contributed to many losses for us thIs year. Add an inconsistent kicking game, explains we are where we are

MJennings should have been dropped months ago to make a point, not in a bye round when the season is over for us, Woopie doo daaa. Who gives a crap if he is an ex origin and seasoned player. Might have shaken up a few if he did get dropped ages ago. We don't know whats happening behind the scenes, and he may have ranted and raved behind closed doors, but maybe the players need a bit of puplic humiliation eg sacking MJ a lot earlier

I keep hearing we are training really well, well blow me over with a feather. Crickets version of bowling well in the nets FMD. You can ball 5 yorkers an over in the nets, but if you cant do one on match day???? I dont want to hear that shit, cause they are playing like they spend their training nights at the local bingo

Mahoney is an outstanding prospect, and hopefully he will be at least a 60 min hooker next season , if not 80. Our halves are a worry though.

 

[ash411]

Yeah no it's not. Forwards getting dominated and a backline not playing to their potential is a massive problem for any club. Add to that stupid errors and bonehead penalties and it's probably a solid formula to coming last.

Tied last with the Cows who have GOATS. Is it all Paul Green's fault up north ?

I wonder about this a lot, do the other teams fans go as hard for the heads of their teams coaches as ours does? Are Cows fans right now calling for Greens head, saying he's never had a good season, he's lost the dressing room, he out of ideas, etc.. Are Bulldogs fans calling for Dean Pay's head? I suppose they were out for Des last year, and got what they wanted I suppose, which has worked out great for them so far.. (cautionary tale, just btw...)

 

[Happy MEel]

Norman is the more experienced half, no? Wouldn't it be expected that he get more ball and have better relative stats than Moses?

And also, would he be held to a higher standard, given his level of experience and ability? Basically what I'm getting at, is that Norman is copping more shit than Moses because perhaps more is expected of Norman, where Moses is expected to do less, and is therefore closer to expectations than Norman?

This is Moses’ 5th year in 1st grade, he has been a member of the emerging blues squads and was talked up as potential origin half. Norman has been around a bit longer but they would be on similar coin so expectations should be shared.

 

[ash411]

This is Moses’ 5th year in 1st grade, he has been a member of the emerging blues squads and was talked up as potential origin half. Norman has been around a bit longer but they would be on similar coin so expectations should be shared.

I dunno so much though.

Moses is still very young and doesn't seem anywhere near the "senior" level player that Norman is.

I'm not saying expectation on Moses aren't high either, all I'm saying is that he's meeting his, where Norman may not be meeting his.

I'm just trying to think the way that people who aren't happy with Norman think, I actually don't have a problem with either of them, I like them both in the squad and would prefer they stay for the next few years at least, I'd love to see them really develop a partnership, which I think they could do really well once they figure it out, it'd be the kind of thing you can build a team around.

It won't happen though because as soon as a team loses 2 in a row, people decide it's time to shaft one or both of the halves, because it's all their fault apparently ( unless it's the coaches fault)

 

[Bazal]

You know what @Gary Gutful , I’ll do it for you...

We’re talking about a halves comparison so I’ll remove the game Norman played at fullback. They have both played 16 games in the halves this year and their total number of possessions are below (champion data):

Norman: 779
Moses: 645

Norman certainly touches the ball more but only about 20% more. Norman’s LBA, TA, Avg running metres, forced drop outs and offloads are all more than 20% higher than Moses’.

Anything else?

Let me preface by saying I don't think either half has been very good, but....

How many touches inside the 20?

How many last tackle options for each player inside the 20?

Pretty sure those stats aren't actually available anywhere but the point remains. It certainly looks like we go to Norman a lot more than Moses, especially in the red-zone.

I actually think that has a lot to do with our hookers. Norman, being on the left, is a more natural pass than left to right. And our hookers service has been poor, none look comfortable passing left to right. Everything starts at hooker, and almost all our attack seems to go left.

Personally I think Norman has overplayed his hand but gets a higher mark from most because he's more visible. I think Moses is suffering as much from the players around him as he is his own form. Look at Jennings and Moses' combination last year as opposed to this year, pretty sure Jennings dropped tries have cost Moses several assists through no fault of Mitch himself (just for example).

I think both halves have been equally poor. I think Moses has been steadier but more timid, Norman has been more willing to try something but has also made more screw-ups.

 

[El Diablo]

So that’s not on the coach just the players???

We have struggled in the 20m zone in all of BA’s time at the club. But yeah Norman and Guth are shit.

Gronk is a massive Arthur groupie

don't waste your time with him

 

[84 Baby]

Andrew Johns would be nice but probably out of the question.

I reckon he could get Normzie playing the right lines

 

[Gronk]

Gronk is a massive Arthur groupie

don't waste your time with him

OK let's play your game and sack the coach. I'll put you in charge of the club for the next 10 mins.

You now have to pay out BA, pay the new coach out of the 2019 $5.7m football department budget. Merkins have been complaining that we are under resourced, however you need to make cuts. What cuts are you going to make ?



PS Do you know that there is a football department salary cap now ? Did you know that if you sack the coach then we'll need to cut funding in other areas ?

----8<-----

Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs officials may have avoided playing this season with up to $1 million less than rival clubs for football department spending by parting ways with Des Hasler last September.

While the Bulldogs could still be forced to pay $1 million to Hasler if he succeeds in legal action against the club, the amount won't be included in the new NRL football department salary cap.

However, any coach sacked this year will have his wages or any financial settlement counted as part of the club's $5.7 million ceiling on football department expenditure, along with the cost of hiring a replacement.

https://www.nrl.com/news/2018/02/05/winning-starts-monday-nrl-coaches-get-extra-job-security/

 

[emjaycee]

You know what @Gary Gutful , I’ll do it for you...

We’re talking about a halves comparison so I’ll remove the game Norman played at fullback. They have both played 16 games in the halves this year and their total number of possessions are below (champion data):

Norman: 779
Moses: 645

Norman certainly touches the ball more but only about 20% more. Norman’s LBA, TA, Avg running metres, forced drop outs and offloads are all more than 20% higher than Moses’.

Anything else?

Can you work out for me whether Norman plays on the left and if so, who has he had outside him that would encourage the overall play to go left? I mean would the left side edge forward, centre and winger be better players than those on the right and therefore we would be more likely to have more attempts down that side?

Oh and on the running metres average, can you work out a comparison between when Norman runs and gets caught with the ball vs when this happens to Moses, maybe even include when it happens on the last tackle too please.

Cheers

 

[Obscene Assassin]

You need one further stat, touches of the ball.

I think last night (I could be wrong) it was mentioned at one stage during the game that Norman had 44 or so touches of the ball compared to Moses 24 or so.

If that stat is correct and consistent during the year, you wouId probably assume Norman should have a lot better attacking stats as he touches the nearly double.

And looking at those stats Norman stats aren’t 50% better then Moses even though he gets 50% more opportunities then Moses.

But just because he touches it x times more doesn't mean he should be getting x times more positive stats. He could be receiving the ball closer to the ruck whereas Moses could be receing it wider which means he's more likely to get line breaks or lbas. But that's why we watch the games rather than just looking at stat sheets and box scores.

I think I read somewhere on twitter that Norman is in the top 8 halves for positive contributions for how many touches they make whereas Moses was 17th.