1921-2003 = 83 seasons and 15 premierships

[Anonymous]

The Football club recognises that the Dragons have a history which ranges from 1921-2003. According to the Club Journal, the Dragons have won 15 premierships.

Its time for the NRL to catch-up and stop referring to the Dragons as a club that started in 1999.

 

[Buzz Boy]

Damn right Willow!

Even when they correctly credit the Illawarra Steelers as being half of our current club, our combined history still goes back to 1921!

83 seasons, 15 premierships... and proud of it!!!

 

[Benny]

here here

was actually at the NRL when this argument occured between two employee's

so we never down the track

 

[Anonymous]

was actually at the NRL when this argument occured between two employee's

LOL.. would like to hear more about that but I've an inkling as to what took place.

The pencil pushers have this notion that the Dragons started in 1999 because the sky will fall in otherwise. They say the statistics will be a mess.

Historical facts are there for interpretation. For example, the NRL will happily overlook the fact that the NRL only started in 1998. Even the glossed over accounts refer the 'formation of the NRL' as being a new beginning.

The premiership which used to be administered by the NSWRL and then the ARL was now a new competition. So, if we are to re-start the history of St George, then we must also re-start the competition records in total.
This is something the Dead Club Society fail to address and something that will no doubt be resisted by Souths and Easts - nevertheless, it's an obvious contradiction.

Don't get me wrong... the Sydney Competition, as it was known, should be allowed to continue on with the records since 1908 intact.
But if thats the case, then all records should be acknowledged.

Now, for those who question the Illawarra Steelers contribution, let me make it clear that the Wollongong district has a proud history of its own which has often been overlooked. There should be recognition of the history of Illawarra RL and they should be included in all future Dragons journals.

And what about the actual name? We have a situation where the Barrett calls the team 'St George', the majority of fans call them 'St George' and the commentators slip up all the time in calling them 'St George'. Langlands, Wollongong's favourite son, insists that the team should be called 'St George'. Barrett in particular keeps on calling them 'St George' despite being asked to say something more poltically appealing like 'Dragons' or 'StGeorge-Illawarra'.

If say in 10 years time, everyone calls them 'St George', what then? The record books will look strange to say the least if they still have St George as having two sets of history. IMO, history will ultimately take a natural course.

I stress that this is not a swipe at Illawarra who have made a tremendous contribution to Rugby League and have provided more great players then we have time to mention here. What the Illawarra district got out of the JV is a local ground and a team rich in history playing half their home games there... we were always led to believe that was the deal.

But the here's the controversial bit... which part of the JV has the most life?

 

[Kiwi]

But the here's the controversial bit... which part of the JV has the most life?

You could look at that several ways, obviously Illawarra only really exists by name in the Joint venture on the surface, but where are most of their gun players from, Barrett, Ryles, Hornby, Firman ect those guys would be Steelers if the clubs didn't merge.

 

[Anonymous]

But the here's the controversial bit... which part of the JV has the most life?

You could look at that several ways, obviously Illawarra only really exists by name if the Joint venture on the surface, but where are most of their gun players from, Barrett, Ryles, Hornby, Firman ect those guys would be Steelers if the clubs didn't merge.

Well thats sort of true but the JV has been going for 4 years now and who's to say what the team would look like now if the JV never took place. Illawarra officials have acknowledged that the Steelers would have folded anyway.

Its a shame really because when the NSWRL was looking to expand the competition in 1967, Illawarra had perfect credentials. The had history (they beat a touring English sides twice), players to burn (everyone was grabbing players from the Illawarra) and back then, plenty of monetary connections. The NSWRL in their wisdom opted for a Cronulla Sutherland side who had no history, no real juniors and they were at a major geographical disadvantage. But there was business enterprise willing to underwrite it all... that all evaporated soonafter the Sharks were granted entry. Read into that what you like.

I still think that the single greatest mistake the NSWRL ever made was allowing the Sharks into the competition.

Firman btw was bought from the Sharks last year in a deal where they got Jason Kent. Ben Hornby started with Saints in 2000... imo, it's no longer relevant where the players played their junior footy because the team is completely different to what it looked like in 1999.

Nevertheless, we should alway herald the player's origin, be it Corrimal or Cairns because this is a credit to that local competition and the coaches etc.

Anyway, what I was trying to say was that St George could have instigated a takeover (ala Manly) of the Illawarra but they didnt. Truth is, Saints have had a long association with the Illawarra and it was seen as a 'reunification'. Saints had all the money and plenty of juniors the Steelers had the big backyard and even more juniors.

 

[Alan Shore]

The Football club recognises that the Dragons have a history which ranges from 1921-2003. According to the Club Journal, the Dragons have won 15 premierships.

Its time for the NRL to catch-up and stop referring to the Dragons as a club that started in 1999.

No. This club began in 1999. Stop your pathetic attempts to get the events of a dead club half a century ago included in this 4 year old's record books.

 

[Anonymous]

The Football club recognises that the Dragons have a history which ranges from 1921-2003. According to the Club Journal, the Dragons have won 15 premierships.

Its time for the NRL to catch-up and stop referring to the Dragons as a club that started in 1999.

No. This club began in 1999. Stop your pathetic attempts to get the events of a dead club half a century ago included in this 4 year old's record books.

Slow day Tamazoid? ;-)

Tell me, should I stop my 'pathetic attempts' because thats what you want me to do?

I find it amusing that while Dragons supporters and the club are happy to have a continuation of history, supporters of some other clubs squeal about how unfair it all is. It must be envy - especially from those supporters who have a club that have nothing to show and are destined to fabricate their own woeful achievements as being something special.

And its time to get your math right... 1921 is more than half a century ago. I also have an appreciation of things that happened at Rockdale in 1908 - this was before Saints had a first grade team in the NSWRL... but history was happening for us even back then when a St George RLFC was formed.

That's right... try as you may to deny us our past achievements, these events actually did happen. Unlike some clubs, we don't have to make it up.

 

[Alan Shore]

The Football club recognises that the Dragons have a history which ranges from 1921-2003. According to the Club Journal, the Dragons have won 15 premierships.

Its time for the NRL to catch-up and stop referring to the Dragons as a club that started in 1999.

No. This club began in 1999. Stop your pathetic attempts to get the events of a dead club half a century ago included in this 4 year old's record books.

Slow day Tamazoid? ;-)

Tell me, should I stop my 'pathetic attempts' because thats what you want me to do?

I find it amusing that while Dragons supporters and the club are happy to have a continuation of history, supporters of some other clubs squeal about how unfair it all is. It must be envy - especially from those supporters who have a club that have nothing to show and are destined to fabricate their own woeful achievements as being something special.

And its time to get your math right... 1921 is more than half a century ago. I also have an appreciation of things that happened at Rockdale in 1908 - this was before Saints had a first grade team in the NSWRL... but history was happening for us even back then when a St George RLFC was formed.

That's right... try as you may to deny us our past achievements, these events actually did happen. Unlike some clubs, we don't have to make it up.

My point is, as it stands:

St.George Dragons does NOT = St.George-Illawarra Dragons. You can't claim 15 premierships as those of St.George-Illawarra.

You show your hypocrisy Willow - "We don't have to make it up". That's exactly what you're doing. The jealousy of being Merged Scum rather than a stand-alone entity causes the jealousy.

 

[Green Eye]

Ignore him willow.... pathetic teams from "gods inbred country" can't get a premiership so they decide to attack other teams... pathetic little boy.... :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Ignore him willow.... pathetic teams from "gods inbred country" can't get a premiership so they decide to attack other teams... pathetic little boy.... :lol:

No it's OK.
The reason for any new thread to start discussion and when I posted this I'd hope for some debate.

Tama... maaaate. I have in my posession a keen set of ears and eyes and contacts.
I'm fortunate enough to know that time is on our side. I've already mentioned that the official football club journal has totalled up the records. But things won't stop there.

We have a running joke in my house, everytime a commentator or a player or a ref or anyone associated with rugby league calls the Dragons 'St George', we laugh and say, "he called them St George!"

It's becoming a little montonous now because we're saying it several times every weekend. Have a listen... referees, commentators, supporters, club officials, journalists, players are often caught out calling the team 'St George'.

Before he got injured, the team captain, Trent Barrett called his team 'St George' in post match interviews... and he's ex-Steelers. I'm told by a certain CEO that older blokes in the Illawarra contingent asked for him to stop doing it but he ignored them.

Graeme Langlands, Wollongong's favourite son, has said repeatedly that the team should be called 'St George'.

But I can tell you the most telling factor here... most fans, including me, who support the St George and Illawarra Dragons... we still call them Saints, or St George.

You see, it's not about dead clubs (btw StGeorge RLFC still exists as an entity) or about disrespect to Illawarra. It's about how folk feel inside and what they're most comfortable with.

In time, everyone will know of the Dragons as being the club that came out of St George and then reunified with the Illawarra.
Illawarra have a proud history of producing great players and many of these players played for the Dragons... just as they do today. But when they finally got their break into the big league, they couldnt find success. I thought it was great when the two districts reunified.
Out of it, we St George supporters re-gained a huge backyard of juniors. The folk of Wollongong gained a team that was drenched in history and success and had loads of money. And now we have two home grounds... like it should have been from the beginning.

And again, in time, when everyone is calling the team 'St George' or 'Saints' or 'The Dragons'... what then? If the history books show two sets of records, won't it all look a little odd?

Sorry to disappoint you Tama but St George and Illawrra already have a history. They were already the Dragons. And this will be put to the test when Saints win their next premiership. You can try and take it away in your mind, but it won't do any good. The team I support has won 15 premierships.

 

[Alan Shore]

Ignore him willow.... pathetic teams from "gods inbred country" can't get a premiership so they decide to attack other teams... pathetic little boy.... :lol:

No it's OK.
The reason for any new thread to start discussion and when I posted this I'd hope for some debate.

Tama... maaaate. I have in my posession a keen set of ears and eyes and contacts.
I'm fortunate enough to know that time is on our side. I've already mentioned that the official football club journal has totalled up the records. But things won't stop there.

We have a running joke in my house, everytime a commentator or a player or a ref or anyone associated with rugby league calls the Dragons 'St George', we laugh and say, "he called them St George!"

It's becoming a little montonous now because we're saying it several times every weekend. Have a listen... referees, commentators, supporters, club officials, journalists, players are often caught out calling the team 'St George'.

Before he got injured, the team captain, Trent Barrett called his team 'St George' in post match interviews... and he's ex-Steelers. I'm told by a certain CEO that older blokes in the Illawarra contingent asked for him to stop doing it but he ignored them.

Graeme Langlands, Wollongong's favourite son, has said repeatedly that the team should be called 'St George'.

But I can tell you the most telling factor here... most fans, including me, who support the St George and Illawarra Dragons... we still call them Saints, or St George.

You see, it's not about dead clubs (btw StGeorge RLFC still exists as an entity) or about disrespect to Illawarra. It's about how folk feel inside and what they're most comfortable with.

In time, everyone will know of the Dragons as being the club that came out of St George and then reunified with the Illawarra.
Illawarra have a proud history of producing great players and many of these players played for the Dragons... just as they do today. But when they finally got their break into the big league, they couldnt find success. I thought it was great when the two districts reunified.
Out of it, we St George supporters re-gained a huge backyard of juniors. The folk of Wollongong gained a team that was drenched in history and success and had loads of money. And now we have two home grounds... like it should have been from the beginning.

And again, in time, when everyone is calling the team 'St George' or 'Saints' or 'The Dragons'... what then? If the history books show two sets of records, won't it all look a little odd?

Sorry to disappoint you Tama but St George and Illawrra already have a history. They were already the Dragons. And this will be put to the test when Saints win their next premiership. You can try and take it away in your mind, but it won't do any good. The team I support has won 15 premierships.

Calling them "St.George" is just a short, quick way of referring to the team with the hyphenated name.

No the record books wouldn't look odd, they'd just look truthful and correct. St.George: 15 premierships, St.George-Illawarra: 0 premierships.

Since when was it Illawarra Dragons? It was Illawarra Steelers. THey have a history, like all clubs, but St.George-Illawarra's history only goes back to 1999. It is a club in it's own right.

The team you support has 15 premierships. Yes, the St.George Dragons have 15 premierships. The St.George-Illawarra Dragons have 0 premierships. St.George RLFC may exist as an entity, but it does not play football by itself at the top level. Simple as that.

 

[legend]

I remember I ran with this a while back on LWOS and at various stages, it was like hitting your head against a brick wall.

For me, the Dragons took over the Steelers and speculation about the Steelers juniors is just that, speculation.

How anybody could say beyond a shadow of a doubt that all the Illawarra juniors would have ended up at St George is beyond me. Other clubs would have picked the eyes out of the Steelers junior area, including the Wests Tigers and Sharks, who are geographically closer to the Illawarra than St George.

Here's another way of looking at it. If Saints tried to push on past 1999 in their own right, it's pretty obvious they would have gone the way of the Gold Coast. Geographically, they were being strangled by the surrounding clubs and if you look at it by players alone, Saints would have Dean Byrne, Amos Roberts and Mark Gasnier as their only established talent.

IMO, when Saints willingly entered the merger with Illawarra they forfeited all their rights to be known for historical purposes as the St George Dragons from 1999 onwards.

Any premiership (remote as it sounds) won from here on in should not be added to the tally of St George, becasue they do not play in the NRL and have not since the end of 1998.

 

[Anonymous]

I remember I ran with this a while back on LWOS and at various stages, it was like hitting your head against a brick wall.

For me, the Dragons took over the Steelers and speculation about the Steelers juniors is just that, speculation.

How anybody could say beyond a shadow of a doubt that all the Illawarra juniors would have ended up at St George is beyond me.

Other clubs would have picked the eyes out of the Steelers junior area, including the Wests Tigers and Sharks, who are geographically closer to the Illawarra than St George.

So what has that got to do with anything? The club today has players from all over. Some have gone and some have stayed... it's been 4 years since the JV and any salary cap exemptions have long expired.

Here's another way of looking at it. If Saints tried to push on past 1999 in their own right, it's pretty obvious they would have gone the way of the Gold Coast.

LOL. why? Because you say so? :lol: Bloody hell that cracks me up. :lol:
St George were grand finalists in 1992, 1993 and 1996. They were and still are a wealthy club. Tell the St George RLFC CEO that they don't have juniors and you'll have your arse kicked all over the Taj Mahal.
On the other hand, the Canberra Raiders are now enjoying some success but have had years of struggle and were a financial mess before Arko's mob bailed them out.
The Gold Coast were a club run by petty-minded money grabbers and the team couldn't win a game.
Furthermore, if a team like Souths with all their problems can survive in the big league then what makes you think that Saints were going down? Get real.

Show me your evidence that Saints would have gone the same way as the Gold Coast. Either that or tell us another joke.

Geographically, they were being strangled by the surrounding clubs and if you look at it by players alone, Saints would have Dean Byrne, Amos Roberts and Mark Gasnier as their only established talent.

More wonderful speculation again and totally ignoring all the other juniors and imports that the club (St George and Illawarra) has since developed.

Any premiership (remote as it sounds) won from here on in should not be added to the tally of St George, becasue they do not play in the NRL and have not since the end of 1998.

You've changed your tune... or is this new found belief for forum consumption only?

Whether you like it or not, it's never been about what other club supporters think. It's always been about how people feel and what sort of pitch can be made to the NRL.
If Dragons supporters say the next premiership is number 16 and when the NRL agrees, then it is number 16.

The club record books will certainly agree and show it as being:
St George 15
Illawarra 0
St George Illawarra Dragons 16

It doesnt matter whether you agree or not... its just the way its heading.

btw Tamazoid. Thanks very much for replying without getting upset. Much appreciated... You're right, the team I support have won 15 premierships... but beyond that, you're still missing the point.

And yes, before anyone asks... I am suggesting that St George are a special case. Not only for the club and its supporters but also for the heart and soul of the game.. something I'm sure our mate Pepe can relate to. ;-)

 

[salivor]

As legend has said we've gone down this road in the past and its like banging your head against a brick wall. St George think they're a special case, they have their strip, they have both St George and the Dragons in the club name, now they have their home ground. Its not enough though they want their history and they want to give the Illawara name the flick. But hey its all ok because we are remembering Illawara's rugby league history in our hearts. They should be thankful they're even getting that because they've inherited the Saints rich history lol.

 

[Anonymous]

As legend has said we've gone down this road in the past and its like banging your head against a brick wall. St George think they're a special case, they have their strip, they have both St George and the Dragons in the club name, now they have their home ground. Its not enough though they want their history and they want to give the Illawara name the flick. But hey its all ok because we are remembering Illawara's rugby league history in our hearts. They should be thankful they're even getting that because they've inherited the Saints rich history lol.

No, all Legend ever did at LWOS was to try and say that without the Illawarra, St George would have folded through lack of players - an absurd statement.

But if you really are bangng your heads against a brick wall, then why bother? You can at least be confident in the knowledge that you did your best. :lol:

 

[legend]

I agree, St George are a very special case. Most of their supporters are too brain dead to see anything outside Kogarah.

Just to point out some glaring errors in one of your posts Willow.

Arko and by that I assume you are talking of the NSWRL/ARL bailed Canberra out. Bailed us out of what? We were never broke. We breached the salary cap after paying incentives to the horde of Raiders players who overnight became internationals.

News Ltd stepped in to assist the Raiders during the SL war, just as the Dragons received the same level of assistance from the ARL/Optus. So what's your point? I doubt you even have one. Just another misguided post from a delusional Saints fan who knows very little, if anything that happens in the game today outside of st George Illawarra.

BTW, your argument has many holes in it.

If St George were in such great shape, why merge in the first place and potentially alienate the fans and possibly lose your identity? Why would such a supposed "strong" club even consider such a drastic notion?

Get your hand off it Willow or at least give the other one a go.

 

[Benny]

Legend mate you are kidding youself

This is the thing St George could have survived on their own, they knew it, the league knew it, it came out that Saints would have been one of the teams to survive

What St George did was for the good of the League, it kept Penrith in the competition as they were just ahead of Souths and it also gave the Illawarra a team as they were broke

It protected League from having no team from the scum right down to Canberra

Saints from this recieved good money and also a very good junior base to call upon, so they didn't have to sign players form other clubs

Saints would have had a strong side just as they did throughout the 1990's, they made three grand finals - why would of that all changed?

Saints have juniors and had a good talent identification scheme in place to bring kids from the country as they still have today but with less emphasis because of South Coast Juniors

In the last few years Roosters and Melbourne have both won the Grand Final - look at their junior base, you can't saying having a junior base is how you get your success

Though none of this should have happened - but that is clubs like Canberra with no heritage or history to speak of who are invited to a competition and cause in financial difficulty go and leave for the money and stuff the whole game up

Your just jealous that your club isn't the most famous Football team ever and you don't nor will have what St George has

So i think you are the one my friend who should get his hands of it

Jealousy does weird things to people Willow, but if he wants to live in denial thats his choice but i will just live in the sunshine

 

[legend]

Yeah, i'm sure that's it Benny. Remember, we were in four grand finals in six years, winning three but yet we have no history or heritage? :roll:

Obviously you have got your hand on it as well. Should have guessed i'd stumbled upon a group wank. I'll be sure to close the door on my way out.

You want my honest opinion. I wouldn't give a squirt of piss for St George or their "history" which really isn't that flash in the last twenty years and which has brought the Dragons how many premierships exactly?

Yeah mate, you keep living in the sunshine outside the top eight as you do every year. I'll take the top four anyday.

As for most famous football team ever. You really need professional help Benny. Famous for what? Choking!

As for the Canberra situation, you are just as ignorant as Willow and speak pure, unadulterated shit.

Canberra were not broke, they went over the cap to fulfil contracts and it was the incentives written into these contracts that forced Canberra over the cap. We paid a fine and shed players to rectify the situation.

As for the Super League argument, well i'm not even going waste any more time as you simply do not understand the concept of how it worked. You were in the sunshine basking in the glory of defeat.

 

[salivor]

Your just jealous that your club isn't the most famous Football team ever and you don't nor will have what St George has

So i think you are the one my friend who should get his hands of it

Jealousy does weird things to people Willow, but if he wants to live in denial thats his choice but i will just live in the sunshine

Why does every Saints fan feel its their duty to play the village idiot of the Rugby League community?