2018 Captain

[muzby]

I wouldn't accept any deal for Marketo unless muzby is included. Play hardball.

i'm probably a yard or two off the pace of NRL these days..

 

[madunit]

i'm probably a yard or two off the pace of NRL these days..

Thats 3 or 4 yards ahead of our mob.

Paperwork is in the post

 

[simmo05]

Does anyone know how woods got the job over lawrance in the first bloody place?

 

[madunit]

It was probably an exercise by Taylor to try and keep him at the club.

We'll make you captain to show you how important you are to us
Well arrrrm, my missues has dinner and arrrrrm it is what it is ya know...aaaarrrrrrm

 

[Tiger05]

Does anyone know how woods got the job over lawrance in the first bloody place?

No idea. Another quality decision by coach Taylor.

 

[leaguelegend21]

He's never been a captain before
He's never played at this club before
We're still doing a rebuild next year
Have a leader like ET or Lawrence introduce him to the role over a year

It will make him a better leader instead of just dumping it on him from the get go.

Only a very select few occasions can you hand such a responsibility to a person at a new club who has never been a captain before and have it work.

Just think for a second. We've been making stupid impulse mistakes for too bloody long. Why not, just for once for a f**king change, take the time to do a job properly. If Reynolds is to be the future captain, and I have no issue with that, than I want him to be fully prepared for the role, not just dump on it when he walks in the door the first day, without even satying hello to his team mates.

And Lawrence is a complete professional. He has always put the club first and that can not be denied. He will be honoured to take on the role of interim captain and he will be just as honoured to help groom the next long term captain.

When have you heard Lawrence bitch about the club? We have been blessed with the perfect situation to make this work brilliantly for us and you want to rush in gung ho and you and I both know that such a plan is a high risk of failing.

What if Reynolds gets the captaincy on day 1 and struggles with the responsibility and it sees him play like Jordan Rankin? Do we want to go through that whole saga? Of course not. Give the kid a chance to learn the ropes, earn the trust and respect of his team mates.

Then make him captain.

How is that unreasonable?

I think it's completely wrong to characterise Josh Reynolds as a player akin to Jordan Rankin in playing ability and mentality. Josh Reynolds is a man who has shouldered not only the responsibility of his club but his broader community since he established himself in first grade. He is not a man who is overawed by expectation or occasion, he gets on with the job and inspires people around him to be better. He is not an incapable child that needs to be eased into captaincy with training wheels while Chris Lawrence shows him how it's done. Reynolds is a once in a generation leader coming to our club at exactly the right time. With the appropriate systems around him in Pascoe, a stable board and Ivan, he has every chance to succeed like he has the capacity to do.

It's also wrong to characterise the act of bestowing captaincy on a new player as some slap dash exercise. Ivan Cleary is not a f**kwhit coach like Jason Taylor who would say 'here's the captaincy - do your thing' and move on. This seemingly happened with Aaron Woods last year and has clearly ended in tears. Again, you have to remember we are now dealing with consummate professional administrators, coaches and players who would ensure to make the transition as seamless as possible. Half of our f**king team is coming in new next year. Fair enough for you to be hesitant over a brand new captain if he was coming into a well established dressing room, but when nigh-on the majority are new, there is not the sort of unstable welcoming or transition that you are suggesting.

You need to realise that the situation we are in as a club is probably the most unique in modern history. We have had literally our entire squad overhauled. We have ONE player on contract next year from our leadership group of last year. Our transition is nearly complete. To lead this transition we need the best leader, not the best clubman historically or our best player. The best leader is Josh Reynolds and he rightfully deserves the captaincy.

 

[Tiger05]

I completely disagree with giving the captaincy to Reynolds. My opinion is that we need a culture change and the captaincy has to be earnt at our club. Reynolds has to prove that he is a quality first grade player for us and the captaincy shouldn't even be thought about until the end of the first season at least.

Lawrence has been a great clubman and deserves the captaincy as a show of respect. ET is also worthy of the role. Those guys are both better options right now than Reynolds.

 

[Clifferd]

If we give Lawrence the captaincy it just feels like we are going back in time. Lawrence whilst loyal and all that jip would be engrained into the previous/currentn culture we have sustained over quite a number of years

To me Lawrence should've been given the nod in the first place over woods but seeing as the mess we are in, giving him the captaincy now is the wrong place and wrong time.

Going through a club culture shift/rebuild there is no better place to start with Josh Reynolds with no disrespect to Chris Lawrence, he will still go down as a club legend but for me the timing is just wrong. On the other hand Reynolds is a fresh breath of air/a new voice and with a fair share of new recruits coming along should lead the way being named captain

I have a strong feeling ET will get the nod anyway he seems to love the club and will be here for another few years

 

[madunit]

I think it's completely wrong to characterise Josh Reynolds as a player akin to Jordan Rankin in playing ability and mentality.

I knew you'd completely misinterpret that. I DID NOT say the Reynolds was the same as Rankin in ability and mentality.

Josh Reynolds is a man who has shouldered not only the responsibility of his club but his broader community since he established himself in first grade. He is not a man who is overawed by expectation or occasion, he gets on with the job and inspires people around him to be better. He is not an incapable child that needs to be eased into captaincy with training wheels while Chris Lawrence shows him how it's done. Reynolds is a once in a generation leader coming to our club at exactly the right time. With the appropriate systems around him in Pascoe, a stable board and Ivan, he has every chance to succeed like he has the capacity to do.

You DO NOT KNOW any of this. Nor do I. You CANNOT use your opinion of a player to justify your comments.

It's also wrong to characterise the act of bestowing captaincy on a new player as some slap dash exercise. Ivan Cleary is not a f**kwhit coach like Jason Taylor who would say 'here's the captaincy - do your thing' and move on. This seemingly happened with Aaron Woods last year and has clearly ended in tears. Again, you have to remember we are now dealing with consummate professional administrators, coaches and players who would ensure to make the transition as seamless as possible. Half of our f**king team is coming in new next year. Fair enough for you to be hesitant over a brand new captain if he was coming into a well established dressing room, but when nigh-on the majority are new, there is not the sort of unstable welcoming or transition that you are suggesting.

He has NEVER been a captain before. There are things you need to know and learn. You can't walk into the role. Aaron Woods has proven that. What if Reynolds doesn't want to be a captain? There's been opportunities in the past where he could've been a captain at the Bulldogs and he was never appointed. Perhaps it's a responsibility he doesn't want. You do not know anything about Reynolds and his captaincy aspirations. Which is why a year as deputy makes sense. He gets to see what is required, and decide for himself if it's something he wants to do.

You need to realise that the situation we are in as a club is probably the most unique in modern history. We have had literally our entire squad overhauled. We have ONE player on contract next year from our leadership group of last year. Our transition is nearly complete. To lead this transition we need the best leader, not the best clubman historically or our best player. The best leader is Josh Reynolds and he rightfully deserves the captaincy.

You need to realise that you can't go around forcing people to do something because you think they might be good at it. A sensible and smart approach is required. Let him be VC for a year and find out if he wants the gig. He might find he loves it. Great, make him captain.

He might find it distracts him from his game too much, as it has with many good players since 1908. I'd rather ease him into the role and find out that way, then slap it on him from the get go and take the risk of him performing badly, something we should be avoiding for a half.

 

[madunit]

If we give Lawrence the captaincy it just feels like we are going back in time. Lawrence whilst loyal and all that jip would be engrained into the previous/currentn culture we have sustained over quite a number of years

To me Lawrence should've been given the nod in the first place over woods but seeing as the mess we are in, giving him the captaincy now is the wrong place and wrong time.

Going through a club culture shift/rebuild there is no better place to start with Josh Reynolds with no disrespect to Chris Lawrence, he will still go down as a club legend but for me the timing is just wrong. On the other hand Reynolds is a fresh breath of air/a new voice and with a fair share of new recruits coming along should lead the way being named captain

I have a strong feeling ET will get the nod anyway he seems to love the club and will be here for another few years

Fine argument.

Would you not want then, someone who has been a captain before to lead this new team in their first season together, over someone who has never been a captain before?

 

[Clifferd]

Fine argument.

Would you not want then, someone who has been a captain before to lead this new team in their first season together, over someone who has never been a captain before?

Either way I don't think the captaincy will have much hold over the players next season anyway, the only difference is the player with the (c) next to his name will be able to speak to the refs and front media conferences.

Packer/Reynolds/Lawrence/ET will all be leaders at the club next year one way or another captaincy or not. But if I ultimately had to choose, it'd be Reynolds over Lawrence still only because we are heading into a new era. I don't want to feel like we are regressing over a 1 year stop gap captain

 

[madunit]

Even if a 1 year captain would help a new captain prepare for a long time as captain?

 

[Clifferd]

Seems like a waste of time imo. I'm sure Reynolds gets all the help he can get now with Graham at the dogs now

 

[Radical Rat]

I can see both sides of the argument.

For me it comes down to what Reynolds wants and how bad he wants it. If he is making all the right noises and is chomping at the bit to be the leader of this team, I'd give it to him and give him a chance to show us his leadership. A breath of fresh air is just what this club needs. And I think it might be selling Reynolds a bit short to just say "Oh he's never done it before, he's not ready". He's a veteran and has been groomed for this role for years. Whether that's immediately at the Tigers or he wants to ease himself in I believe is up to him.

But if he's umming and ahhing, I'd be happy with a Lawrence/ET share role and Reynolds as vice.

 

[leaguelegend21]

I knew you'd completely misinterpret that. I DID NOT say the Reynolds was the same as Rankin in ability and mentality.

You DO NOT KNOW any of this. Nor do I. You CANNOT use your opinion of a player to justify your comments.

He has NEVER been a captain before. There are things you need to know and learn. You can't walk into the role. Aaron Woods has proven that. What if Reynolds doesn't want to be a captain? There's been opportunities in the past where he could've been a captain at the Bulldogs and he was never appointed. Perhaps it's a responsibility he doesn't want. You do not know anything about Reynolds and his captaincy aspirations. Which is why a year as deputy makes sense. He gets to see what is required, and decide for himself if it's something he wants to do.

You need to realise that you can't go around forcing people to do something because you think they might be good at it. A sensible and smart approach is required. Let him be VC for a year and find out if he wants the gig. He might find he loves it. Great, make him captain.

He might find it distracts him from his game too much, as it has with many good players since 1908. I'd rather ease him into the role and find out that way, then slap it on him from the get go and take the risk of him performing badly, something we should be avoiding for a half.

So by your logic, if he feels like the role won't distract him from his game (which it won't because he's not invalid) we should make him captain? Again, you need to realise the differing circumstances which would lead to Reynolds captaining the Tigers vs captaining the Bulldogs. At the time the Dogs were looking for a new captain after Ennis left, they were spoilt for choice. Graham, Jackson and Reynolds were obvious choices. Even Tolman and Hodkinson had merits. We have next to no choice. We have a club legend who is fading fast (by your admission), Elijah Taylor who is not even confirmed to being at the club next year and Reynolds. It's clear who the selection is.

Stop positing Reynolds as a timid invalid who struggles to lead in any sort of moderately difficult circumstance. If Ivan and Josh feel that he is the best leader he will be the captain and that is the way it will be.

PS. Would you mind curbing the use of CAPITALISATION? Makes you sound like a 12 year old.

 

[madunit]

I get it now.

You refuse to see my point because I had a go at you about behaving like a dickhead.

To your credit you have improved immensely since and it's good to see you making well thought out and reasoned posts without carrying on like a moron.

But you gotta drop the gripe man.

The capitals was to emphasise words because I figured you had misinterpreted what i said.

Finally, i never said or insinuated that Reynolds was a timid etc.

I even said some players felt that the responsibility of being captain impacted their game. That is all. Its fair and reasonable. That has zero to do with him being timid. Sometimes that duty is a distraction.

And as I said, I'm not opposed to him being captain. I want him to be the best captain he can be and if tgat means he takes a year being an understudy to achieve that, then that is a good thing.

I don't believe he should walk into the role. Thats not a commentary about Reynolds. I have that approach for any player here in their first season.

In my experience, the best captains are respected and trusted by all.

I also think that captaincy will take the edge off that mongrel attitude he gas which we need every ounce of.

I'm not demanding you change your view. But I don't see how my perspective can be deemed so absurd.

 

[leaguelegend21]

I get it now.

You refuse to see my point because I had a go at you about behaving like a dickhead.

To your credit you have improved immensely since and it's good to see you making well thought out and reasoned posts without carrying on like a moron.

But you gotta drop the gripe man.

The capitals was to emphasise words because I figured you had misinterpreted what i said.

Finally, i never said or insinuated that Reynolds was a timid etc.

I even said some players felt that the responsibility of being captain impacted their game. That is all. Its fair and reasonable. That has zero to do with him being timid. Sometimes that duty is a distraction.

And as I said, I'm not opposed to him being captain. I want him to be the best captain he can be and if tgat means he takes a year being an understudy to achieve that, then that is a good thing.

I don't believe he should walk into the role. Thats not a commentary about Reynolds. I have that approach for any player here in their first season.

In my experience, the best captains are respected and trusted by all.

I also think that captaincy will take the edge off that mongrel attitude he gas which we need every ounce of.

I'm not demanding you change your view. But I don't see how my perspective can be deemed so absurd.

I think it's best to preface by stating that the conspiracy that a past gripe is the reason I don't share your point of view is just plain wrong. I appreciate your point of view and see the merit of the argument. I disagree but it doesn't mean I've labelled your argument as stupid or lacking in logic. We see different ways in reaching the same goal of a successful 2018 season and beyond. I enjoy intellectual footy discussions like this and I think attributing a constructive and well-thought out debate to a non-existent petty grudge is quite childish. Given that approximately half of the people in this thread share your point of view and the other 50% share mine, it's quite an interesting topic that is clearly worth exploring.

I'm sure that when the Wests Tigers hierarchy stumble across these posts (as they do read the forums) they will see that the issue is divisive amongst fans and treat the decision with the gravity it deserves.

 

[magpie_man]

I guess one's choice for Captain largely depends upon how one interprets the nature of the role.
I definitely can see the merit in handing the role to Reynolds when he joins the club next year with his tenacity, passion, and off-field volunteer work.
However - and this is entirely my humble opinion - the role of club captain is one that should be earned. Lawrence has his runs on the board in this regard - a local junior and a one-club player who has been with the club for around a decade. He has taken pay-cuts for the sake of the club and, albeit earlier in his career, rejected bigger money contracts with rival clubs to remain a Tiger.
I don't want to get into another Aaron Woods bagging session, but, to me, Lawrence is the very antithesis of Woods - loyal, humble, selfless, and tenacious - which is exactly why I think the club would do well to appoint him given the debacle that it has found itself in this season with certain players.

 

[Tiger05]

However - and this is entirely my humble opinion - the role of club captain is one that should be earned. Lawrence has his runs on the board in this regard - a local junior and a one-club player who has been with the club for around a decade. He has taken pay-cuts for the sake of the club and, albeit earlier in his career, rejected bigger money contracts with rival clubs to remain a Tiger.
I don't want to get into another Aaron Woods bagging session, but, to me, Lawrence is the very antithesis of Woods - loyal, humble, selfless, and tenacious - which is exactly why I think the club would do well to appoint him given the debacle that it has found itself in this season with certain players.

This is exactly how I see the situation as well. If we want to develop the right culture we need Lawrence as captain.

 

[Clifferd]

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