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2018 Pacific Tests ....Are they scheduled to return ?

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
5,325
Its played in Australia so that the NRL can manage the TV rights and any profits

If the Pacific Tests are forming a vital part of the required TV content on rep weekend (which they are) and selling out stadia; which they are progressing towards:

2013 - 10,143 at Penrith (Samoa v Tonga)
2014 - 9,063 at Penrith (Samoa v Fiji)
2015 - 12,336 at Gold Coast (Double Header: PNG v Fiji & Samoa v Tonga)
2016 - 15,225 at Parramatta (Double Header: PNG v Fiji & Samoa v Tonga)
2017 - 18,271 at Campbeltown (Triple Header: Tonga v Fiji, PNG v Cook Islands, England v Samoa)
2018 - Surely the full-house sign will be up at Campbeltwon based on Tonga's world cup performance alone)

Then the NRL will need to use some of their TV revenue to make decent match payments to the players providing the content.
 

KokoRugbyLeague

Juniors
Messages
88
If the Pacific Tests are forming a vital part of the required TV content on rep weekend (which they are) and selling out stadia; which they are progressing towards:

2013 - 10,143 at Penrith (Samoa v Tonga)
2014 - 9,063 at Penrith (Samoa v Fiji)
2015 - 12,336 at Gold Coast (Double Header: PNG v Fiji & Samoa v Tonga)
2016 - 15,225 at Parramatta (Double Header: PNG v Fiji & Samoa v Tonga)
2017 - 18,271 at Campbeltown (Triple Header: Tonga v Fiji, PNG v Cook Islands, England v Samoa)
2018 - Surely the full-house sign will be up at Campbeltwon based on Tonga's world cup performance alone)

Then the NRL will need to use some of their TV revenue to make decent match payments to the players providing the content.
Only the polynesians games rated compared to if one of our teams played fiji or png their would be slight drop. Whenever tonga nz or Samoa play each other the ratings are good because rivalries built in that foundation. Which makes for great games.
 

Force

Juniors
Messages
343
Im hearing the Cook Islands will be taking part in the Pacific Cup next year but nothing set in concrete just yet. One of my mates who used to play for them is now taking a managing role with their Sydney based organisation so I get most of my info on the Cooks from him.
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
5,325
Im hearing the Cook Islands will be taking part in the Pacific Cup next year but nothing set in concrete just yet. One of my mates who used to play for them is now taking a managing role with their Sydney based organisation so I get most of my info on the Cooks from him.

TBH the Cook Islands don't excite me as a nation for the future of RL and I'm glad they didn't take up a spot in the World Cup. Their total population is around 10,000 and Cook Islanders are all New Zealand citizens which means if they every produce any superstars they will most likely get drafted straight into the Kiwi squad.

I don't want to deny them the right to play or their right to try and qualify for the world cup, I just don't want to see Fiji playing the Cook Islands instead of PNG. If Lebanon want to run their Aussie squad out rather than playing their domestic players in a test in Lebanon, then they can play the Cook Islands.
 
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KokoRugbyLeague

Juniors
Messages
88
Cook islands don't bring anything to the table except for being talented rugby league players. Period. They should play lebanon or other developing nations like japan or others. They and niue wouldn't bring anything financially except debt to the big polynesian nations would lose alot if they played cooks. It would be good if they helped develop the big polynesian teams jnr development by playing them. Its where the sport is heading.
 
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titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
5,325
Cook islands don't bring anything to the table except for being talented rugby league players. Period. They should play lebanon or other developing nations like japan or others. They and niue wouldn't bring anything financially except debt to the big polynesian nations would lose alot if they played cooks. It would be good if they helped develop the big polynesian teams jnr development by playing them. Its where the sport is heading.

Agree - we need to try and help NZ get a semi-professional comp off the ground and eventually build it to NSW and QLD cup standard. Tonga, Samoa and Cook Islands can enter club teams into this league which gives them a pathway and a shop-front to display their skills to NRL clubs.
 

jim_57

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
4,360
Agree - we need to try and help NZ get a semi-professional comp off the ground and eventually build it to NSW and QLD cup standard. Tonga, Samoa and Cook Islands can enter club teams into this league which gives them a pathway and a shop-front to display their skills to NRL clubs.

I don't think any of those islands would have the potential to fully host a semi-pro team, certainly not Cook Islands for reasons already mentioned. Nothing to stop partnerships between semi-pro clubs and these nations though, essentially holding player trials and a game or 2/3.
 

Force

Juniors
Messages
343
TBH the Cook Islands don't excite me as a nation for the future of RL and I'm glad they didn't take up a spot in the World Cup. Their total population is around 10,000 and Cook Islanders are all New Zealand citizens which means if they every produce any superstars they will most likely get drafted straight into the Kiwi squad.

I don't want to deny them the right to play or their right to try and qualify for the world cup, I just don't want to see Fiji playing the Cook Islands instead of PNG. If Lebanon want to run their Aussie squad out rather than playing their domestic players in a test in Lebanon, then they can play the Cook Islands.
Given the state of International Rugby League we can not be picky. I'd much rather have a competitive Cook Islands team than the crap some of those so called big Northern Hemisphere teams have dished up this world cup. Look at the state of Rugby League in Scotland...its going backwards at a rate of knots. PNG are already penciled in to play Lebanon, which surprises me because Lebanon arent in the Pacific but neither is England who were part of this years Pacific Cup, so the only logical move is to have Fiji play the Cook Islands. Dont blame them for PNG not playing Fiji, blame the ones who ever agreed to the PNG v Lebanon match up. I guess they are building on the success of Lebanon at the World Cup so included them.
 

Force

Juniors
Messages
343
Cook islands don't bring anything to the table except for being talented rugby league players. Period. They should play lebanon or other developing nations like japan or others. They and niue wouldn't bring anything financially except debt to the big polynesian nations would lose alot if they played cooks. It would be good if they helped develop the big polynesian teams jnr development by playing them. Its where the sport is heading.
The Pacific Cup games are an NRL backed concept so it doesnt matter which team is playing, they will still get paid the same amount.
 

Force

Juniors
Messages
343
Agree - we need to try and help NZ get a semi-professional comp off the ground and eventually build it to NSW and QLD cup standard. Tonga, Samoa and Cook Islands can enter club teams into this league which gives them a pathway and a shop-front to display their skills to NRL clubs.
That will be hard when the NZRL are teetering on broke. NZRL are struggling to stay afloat, they had to cancel a few tours including pulling out of the Commonwealth Nines tournament because they are expecting a financial loss after the World Cup. League is still amateur in NZ outside of the Warriors. It doesnt help when the Kiwi's hardly play games on home soil. The first World Cup match against Samoa was their first in 3 years. That unfortunately is the sad predicament of International Rugby League.
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,562
That will be hard when the NZRL are teetering on broke. NZRL are struggling to stay afloat, they had to cancel a few tours including pulling out of the Commonwealth Nines tournament because they are expecting a financial loss after the World Cup. League is still amateur in NZ outside of the Warriors. It doesnt help when the Kiwi's hardly play games on home soil. The first World Cup match against Samoa was their first in 3 years. That unfortunately is the sad predicament of International Rugby League.

You have to wonder if NZ team is actually run by NZRL or is it a bunch of NRL Kiwis playing NZ colours

NZRL should refuse to play Ausralia unless a Test match v Oz is held in NZ
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
5,325
Given the state of International Rugby League we can not be picky. I'd much rather have a competitive Cook Islands team than the crap some of those so called big Northern Hemisphere teams have dished up this world cup. Look at the state of Rugby League in Scotland...its going backwards at a rate of knots. PNG are already penciled in to play Lebanon, which surprises me because Lebanon arent in the Pacific but neither is England who were part of this years Pacific Cup, so the only logical move is to have Fiji play the Cook Islands. Dont blame them for PNG not playing Fiji, blame the ones who ever agreed to the PNG v Lebanon match up. I guess they are building on the success of Lebanon at the World Cup so included them.

Yes I agree that we should embrace the Cook Islands as a strongish nation for now but they are certainly not the future.

I blame the Pacific Test organisers (the NRL I'm pretty sure) for PNG v Lebanon. PNG v Fiji does more for the game than PNG v Aussie-Lebanon. Lebanon should be arranging tests in Lebanon if they want to build on their world cup momentum. Let Pacific nations play in the Pacific Tests. That includes England - if they want to play mid-season, play against France, Wales or New Zealand. Dont take a spot in the Pacific Test lineup.
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
5,325
You have to wonder if NZ team is actually run by NZRL or is it a bunch of NRL Kiwis playing NZ colours

NZRL should refuse to play Ausralia unless a Test match v Oz is held in NZ
The NZRL have stated that they play most tests against Australia in Australia because it is more profitable and that those tests provide most of their income.

Hopefully things change after this world cup and they can host viable tests regularly against Tonga, Samoa, England and Australia.
 

roughyedspud

Coach
Messages
12,181
NZ v England,mid season, will be in NZ but the end of year test v australia will almost certainly always be played in Australia...cos the NZRL jumps whenever the Aussies tell them too..
 

Force

Juniors
Messages
343
Yes I agree that we should embrace the Cook Islands as a strongish nation for now but they are certainly not the future.

I blame the Pacific Test organisers (the NRL I'm pretty sure) for PNG v Lebanon. PNG v Fiji does more for the game than PNG v Aussie-Lebanon. Lebanon should be arranging tests in Lebanon if they want to build on their world cup momentum. Let Pacific nations play in the Pacific Tests. That includes England - if they want to play mid-season, play against France, Wales or New Zealand. Dont take a spot in the Pacific Test lineup.
Im not sold on PNG vs Fiji doing more for the game than PNG v Lebanon. I dont see how you have come to that conclusion. If the quarterfinal game against Tonga this afternoon is anything to go by, Lebanon will be an asset to the Mid year tests.

We need to have all Nations playing meaningful tests and this includes Lebanon and the Cook Islands, whether or not one thinks they're worthwhile or not. I get what people are saying about playing tests in their home countries but we have to be realistic here, National bodies are broke. If it werent for the NRL backing the Pacific mid-year tests, they wouldn't be happening. Also, I'd doubt clubs would release their players to play halfway around the world for a one-off test, they'll just make up some 2 week injury excuse.
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
5,325
Im not sold on PNG vs Fiji doing more for the game than PNG v Lebanon. I dont see how you have come to that conclusion. If the quarterfinal game against Tonga this afternoon is anything to go by, Lebanon will be an asset to the Mid year tests.

We need to have all Nations playing meaningful tests and this includes Lebanon and the Cook Islands, whether or not one thinks they're worthwhile or not. I get what people are saying about playing tests in their home countries but we have to be realistic here, National bodies are broke. If it werent for the NRL backing the Pacific mid-year tests, they wouldn't be happening. Also, I'd doubt clubs would release their players to play halfway around the world for a one-off test, they'll just make up some 2 week injury excuse.
Please let me clarify what I said about Lebanon; Im happy for them to play tests against PNG but not Aussie-Lebanon at the expense of an a Fijian side that are not a 100% heratage team. If Lebanon want to arrange tests, then put a team of the best born and bread talent together and play in Europe or in Lebanon
 

Force

Juniors
Messages
343
Please let me clarify what I said about Lebanon; Im happy for them to play tests against PNG but not Aussie-Lebanon at the expense of an a Fijian side that are not a 100% heratage team. If Lebanon want to arrange tests, then put a team of the best born and bread talent together and play in Europe or in Lebanon
The Pacific Island teams are pretty much heritage teams as well. They are basically NZ/OZ based players with the exception of PNG who would also let heritage players walk into their team when they show interest so I dont see the problem having an Aussie-Lebanese team, cos they would be no different to the OZ/NZ Pacific teams. Also, Fiji wont be left out, they will more than likely line up against the Cooks.
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
5,325
The Pacific Island teams are pretty much heritage teams as well. They are basically NZ/OZ based players with the exception of PNG who would also let heritage players walk into their team when they show interest so I dont see the problem having an Aussie-Lebanese team, cos they would be no different to the OZ/NZ Pacific teams. Also, Fiji wont be left out, they will more than likely line up against the Cooks.

Yes, we can agree that essentially Lebanon, Tonga and Samoa are the same - players representing a country that they weren't born in but identify as due to their heritage.

The problem I have with Lebanon and not with Tonga and Samoa is that Tonga and Samoa have a combined population of around 200,000 - that is about the population size of an Australian country town. Plus these two countries have had mass emigration to Australia and New Zealand. These two facts mean that even at their most developed state, Tonga and Samoa will always use heritage players - and that's ok as long as the game works towards a situation in the near future where these nations can rely on a pool of players that commit to that nation only. The introduction of the annual Pacific Tests even plus the NRL's pacific strategy where they are actively developing the game on the islands themselves and admitting entry to the Hunters and Fiji to the second teir, is helping all Pacific nations take a step forward in this regard.

Outside of the world cup tournament, Lebanon need to focus on efforts at home and in Europe (they are a RLEF member, not a Pacific nation). I actually don't mind if they even gave Aussie-Lebanon a run in Europe or at home on the rep weekend - fantastic! But I just don't see the greater benefit in running out Aussie-Lebanon in western Sydney at the Pacific Tests event. It seems short sighted as they are appealing to Sydney based Lebanese fans to attend the game and fill the stadium along with the Pacific Island fans. They should be using the gutsy quarter final loss to Tonga to really push the game in Lebanon where the upside is much greater than a small group of expats in Sydney.

On the Fiji side of the coin. I think they deserve much more than to get given a test against a nation that couldn't qualify for the world cup. PNG v Fiji would be an awesome matchup for both teams and the fans following another fairytale run by the Bati to their third WC semi final in a row!!

Please dont' get me wrong, I'm not anti-Lebanon, I just don't think that the best use of their successful team is in Campbeltown on a day that is supposed to celebrate Pacific Island Rugby League. No doubt that it is a smart move crowd-wise from the NRL - but let's face it, the game would have sold out anyway. If you are going to try and drag in fans from Fiji, PNG, Samoa, Tonga and Lebanon and really promote the even you would actually need a much bigger stadium. I think you could actually really give 30k a nudge for a lineup like this following on from the world cup momentum.
 

KokoRugbyLeague

Juniors
Messages
88
The Pacific Cup games are an NRL backed concept so it doesnt matter which team is playing, they will still get paid the same amount.
Well it should mate give them Tonga or nz. Atmosphere and crowds should be taken into account. Its something special and when Toa meet MMT and Kiwis.
 

Force

Juniors
Messages
343
Yes, we can agree that essentially Lebanon, Tonga and Samoa are the same - players representing a country that they weren't born in but identify as due to their heritage.

The problem I have with Lebanon and not with Tonga and Samoa is that Tonga and Samoa have a combined population of around 200,000 - that is about the population size of an Australian country town. Plus these two countries have had mass emigration to Australia and New Zealand. These two facts mean that even at their most developed state, Tonga and Samoa will always use heritage players - and that's ok as long as the game works towards a situation in the near future where these nations can rely on a pool of players that commit to that nation only. The introduction of the annual Pacific Tests even plus the NRL's pacific strategy where they are actively developing the game on the islands themselves and admitting entry to the Hunters and Fiji to the second teir, is helping all Pacific nations take a step forward in this regard.

Outside of the world cup tournament, Lebanon need to focus on efforts at home and in Europe (they are a RLEF member, not a Pacific nation). I actually don't mind if they even gave Aussie-Lebanon a run in Europe or at home on the rep weekend - fantastic! But I just don't see the greater benefit in running out Aussie-Lebanon in western Sydney at the Pacific Tests event. It seems short sighted as they are appealing to Sydney based Lebanese fans to attend the game and fill the stadium along with the Pacific Island fans. They should be using the gutsy quarter final loss to Tonga to really push the game in Lebanon where the upside is much greater than a small group of expats in Sydney.

On the Fiji side of the coin. I think they deserve much more than to get given a test against a nation that couldn't qualify for the world cup. PNG v Fiji would be an awesome matchup for both teams and the fans following another fairytale run by the Bati to their third WC semi final in a row!!

Please dont' get me wrong, I'm not anti-Lebanon, I just don't think that the best use of their successful team is in Campbeltown on a day that is supposed to celebrate Pacific Island Rugby League. No doubt that it is a smart move crowd-wise from the NRL - but let's face it, the game would have sold out anyway. If you are going to try and drag in fans from Fiji, PNG, Samoa, Tonga and Lebanon and really promote the even you would actually need a much bigger stadium. I think you could actually really give 30k a nudge for a lineup like this following on from the world cup momentum.
Your argument still doesnt stack up as the situations of the Pacific Countries you highlight are the same for Lebanon.

Lebanon rely on heritage players, so do the Pacific. Large migrant Pacific populations in OZ/NZ, same as Lebanese. The games in Sydney appeal to Sydney based Lebanese fans, same as the Sydney based Pacific fans. You're trying to find fault with Lebanon but not realising the same faults apply to the Pacific Islands.

The Cooks lost to Tonga in their World Cup qualifier, 28-8, that scoreline flattered Tonga as it was alot closer than what it suggests with Tonga only getting away with it in the last 10mins. Any other tier two team would've lost that game too so thats no blight on the Cooks effort and that was with a weakened Cook Islands side with only a couple of NRL players. The Cooks also beat Lebanon last year and narrowly lost to PNG this year so I wouldn't write them off so easily, especially if they could get their top players.

At the end of the day, Lebanon, like the Cooks need games, thats what it comes down to. Maybe if we changed the name of the Pacific tests to just mid-year tests will you see theres no harm in having Lebanon play in this test match as the Pacific Nations are still playing, so too Lebanon.

PS, the population of Samoa alone is almost 200,000, thats not including the even larger ex-pat Samoans around the world. Tonga is a shade over 100,000, once again, not including the large ex-pat Tongan population.
 
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