AMNRL merges with union entity

[docbrown]

Can we not get carried away with this nonsense about the GPR pumping money into the AMNRL. GPR will pay the AMNRL a set fee for each game that is broadcast. It is extremely likely this is ONLY for International events as they have no domestic schedule.

If GPR aren't there to pump money back into the game then what are they there for, just to make money for themselves?

How does that grow Rugby League in America?

There's no point holding a World 9's or Origin or World Club Challenge to get Americans interested in league if there is no money to capitalise on that interest afterwards.

Hence why under that scenario I would be against it.

I'll go back to the 3 criteria

a) non for profit
b) an independent arbiter ensure it goes back to grassroots
c) the USARL players can get Tomahawk positions

 

[MR KNIGHT]

Evil Homer.

This is getting old but, two things. The USARL and AMNRL comps both had teams that didn't really exist or were borrowing from other clubs. (Oneida, Titans anyone?)

The domestic competition will never be professional. It will just benefit from the run off of a pro or semi pro comp if it comes about. None of the teams on either side are pro or ever will be. I don't think that is the goal. They will be like they are now, local A Grade teams. Sorry to those with delusions of granduer. They all rely on the genrosity of a few supporters. There is no return on investment. There barley is in RL teams in Australia.

Ask Jacksonville, or the Knights or the Fight or the Wildcats if they make money. They are all liabilities.

The money SG and possibibly the new people are pumping in is amazing. I am sure the national team appreciates it.

Why would you say its corrupt. There is no missing money. There is no money. Anyone can come and go as they please. I am sure the USARL would love to get some backers like that.

Did it ever occur why they can't, or the RLIF don't support them?

PS I was told that Niu had been talking about a compromise with the AMNRL and the USARL guys, which considering the all the slander that has been thrown is amazing.

 

[docbrown]

PS I was told that Niu had been talking about a compromise with the AMNRL and the USARL guys, which considering the all the slander that has been thrown is amazing.

I would suggest that having a lack of vision isn't his problem - it's following up on it.

If you aren't sure that you can achieve it, probably best not to get people's hopes up. He needs to remember he's not spitballing ideas when he says "there'll be teams here, here and here".

People might say Gallop is a weak leader but he always makes it clear when something is tangible or not.

 

[Evil Homer]

Evil Homer.

This is getting old but, two things. The USARL and AMNRL comps both had teams that didn't really exist or were borrowing from other clubs. (Oneida, Titans anyone?)

What is getting old? The fact that the AMNRL continues to operate in a completely unprofessional way? I agree, it is. I didn't discuss the strength of the USARL at all, because the USARL have not just sold their organization to a media company. If you actually read my posts, you would see that I explicitly stated pretty much the same as you, that neither league has a product worthy of showcasing on TV. I don't know why you felt the need to bring the USARL into this at all.

The domestic competition will never be professional. It will just benefit from the run off of a pro or semi pro comp if it comes about. None of the teams on either side are pro or ever will be. I don't think that is the goal. They will be like they are now, local A Grade teams. Sorry to those with delusions of granduer. They all rely on the genrosity of a few supporters. There is no return on investment. There barley is in RL teams in Australia.

Ask Jacksonville, or the Knights or the Fight or the Wildcats if they make money. They are all liabilities.

I agree completely, which makes the talk of professional competitions on this forum all the more ludicrous.

The money SG and possibibly the new people are pumping in is amazing. I am sure the national team appreciates it.

The AMNRL's favorite word, 'possibly'. Are you able to explicitly tell us where this money is going, how you intend to use it to develop the game or what GP's agenda is? If so, then I think everyone on this forum will be grateful to hear it.

Why would you say its corrupt. There is no missing money. There is no money. Anyone can come and go as they please. I am sure the USARL would love to get some backers like that.

Corruption does not specifically relate to money. I'm sure we've been over this before. Having a national governing body owned by a third party is corrupt, it doesn't matter if everyone has behaved with the best interests at heart, it's still corrupt and completely unacceptable.

Did it ever occur why they can't, or the RLIF don't support them?

I don't know or care, it's not relevant to this thread at all. This kind of pathetic bitterness is one of the reasons people have a negative view of the AMNRL.

PS I was told that Niu had been talking about a compromise with the AMNRL and the USARL guys, which considering the all the slander that has been thrown is amazing.

Two things - firstly, you act as though Niu agreeing to talk to the USARL is some sort of charitable act. It's not, he should have been talking to them all along. Niu isn't doing a favour, it's his obligation to solve the mess he has made. It was his obligation to avoid it in the first place. I'm not sure why you expect someone to be given credit for finally doing the right thing after 18 months of ridiculous behaviour. Equally, I don't see why a bunch of comments from posters on an internet forum should have any bearing on this whatsoever, and to even suggest that it would is absolutely pathetic, especially when the dissenting posters are for the most part completely neutral, and at times even come from within his own organization. Niu isn't 5 years old FFS.

Secondly, slander implies false claims. Find one claim I've made about the AMNRL that isn't true, and I will happily retract it.

 

[deluded pom?]

It's not like Niu, Vassy and Butch ever bitch on twitter is it?

 

[Rhode Island Rebellion]

Evil Homer.

This is getting old but, two things. The USARL and AMNRL comps both had teams that didn't really exist or were borrowing from other clubs. (Oneida, Titans anyone?)

That is absolutely Rubbish. The Titans were a completely independent team. What team could they have borrowed from being located in New Jersey. Certainly not the AMNRL NY KNIGHTS

 

[Rhode Island Rebellion]

Evil Homer.

This is getting old but, two things. The USARL and AMNRL comps both had teams that didn't really exist or were borrowing from other clubs. (Oneida, Titans anyone?)

The domestic competition will never be professional. It will just benefit from the run off of a pro or semi pro comp if it comes about. None of the teams on either side are pro or ever will be. I don't think that is the goal. They will be like they are now, local A Grade teams. Sorry to those with delusions of granduer. They all rely on the genrosity of a few supporters. There is no return on investment. There barley is in RL teams in Australia.

The Sponsors do find a return on investment. If we didn't give the sponsors a return on their investment we wouldn't exist. Im 26 just graduated Law School and am in Debt and don't have any coin to support a team.

All our money comes from Sposors, Ticket Sales and T-Shirt/ Jewelry sales

 

[Rampart66]

When I talk about taking the game to the next level, I'm certainly not talking about filling 50,000 seat stadiums, multi-million dollar contracts and advertisers out the wazoo.

I'm thinking more along the lines of the National Lacrosse League or USL Soccer or even Arena Football. The players make a few hundred dollars per month (while holding down full or part time jobs). And sometimes these games are televised. I think that this scenario is an attainable goal for rugby league in the US. It will never be the level of the NRL or the 4 major US sports, but I think it can be more than what it is now.


Also...

It's only a few weeks to the start of rugby league in the states. Does the AMNRL have a schedule? I can't seem to find it on their website (other than the midwest league).

 

[Choo Choo]

It's only a few weeks to the start of rugby league in the states. Does the AMNRL have a schedule? I can't seem to find it on their website (other than the midwest league).

I saw that the NOVA Eagles have posted a schedule and it looks like there are only six teams (Eagles, Knights, Bulls, Sharks, Wildcats, Raiders). This is from their website.

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Saturday June, 2nd: Home vs. Knights
Saturday June, 9th: @ Bulls (PA)
Saturday June, 16th: @ Sharks (PA)
Saturday June, 23rd: Home vs. Cats
Saturday June, 30th: Home vs. Raiders
Saturday July, 7th: BYE Week
Saturday July, 14th: Home vs. Sharks


[/FONT]

 

[pennpool]

I don't actually have the inside track on these happenings but here goes.

First off I'm pretty sure when GP says that they acquired the AMNRL then they mean the product not the Governing body. At least that's what I get from the article and I feel certain people are seeing it how they want to see it and not how it actually is. Druzik hit the nail on the head. The confusion is from the fact that there is no differentiating label between product and governing entities.

Maybe, just maybe, this leaves an opening for the two 'Waring' presidents to come together as URL (United Rugby League) or something. One major governing body leaving the product to be known as they are now.

Recently I have seen some Super League Rugby games being shown on Fox Soccer Plus. Golden gate v someone else. The standard was poor and the players were not in the best of shape. From years of experience it was clear to me what the product actually was 'two amature teams'.
What was noticeable was the quality in production/broadcast. To the untrained eye this was simply two American rugby teams playing rugby. For all the untrained eye knows this is the best rugby available due to the fact they haven't seen it any other way.
The big fact is its rugby on a national viewing platform.

This can simply be done with AMNRL. All that needs to changed are the facilities.

Druzik. Mentions that they have to get away from High School stadiums and parks. For this to look viable on tv they definitely have to get out of parks and off airstrips and away from a field surrounded by major city roads.
They do not need to leave High school stadiums. Infant this is a simple way to achieve better facilities and also to build community links with youth and start to provide youth teams.

What has happened ultimately is more publicity, more exposure and more chance to finally get a product on tv.

 

[Goddo]

I'd love to see the USARL and AMNRL agree to a single structure for the game along the following lines:

1. USARL to become top tier club competition. Suitable clubs from AMNRL added to USARL, which for the most part is a club run affair. AMNRL becomes governing body of the sport, responsible for the national side, development programs, referees, working with the clubs to promote the game, et cetera.

2. Establishment of New England Rugby League (NERL). Cities currently with multipule AMNRL/USARL clubs reduced to a single top tier club, others to become feeders. (Oneida feeder to B13, Wildcats and Warriors merge or come to some feeder arangement) - as other regions of the USA develop further second tier comps established.

3. AMNRL (governing body) focus on: national side, grass roots, new market growth.
USARL (league) focus on: Clubs, marketing, revenue, facilities

 

[Rampart66]

I saw that the NOVA Eagles have posted a schedule and it looks like there are only six teams (Eagles, Knights, Bulls, Sharks, Wildcats, Raiders). This is from their website.

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Saturday June, 2nd: Home vs. Knights
Saturday June, 9th: @ Bulls (PA)
Saturday June, 16th: @ Sharks (PA)
Saturday June, 23rd: Home vs. Cats
Saturday June, 30th: Home vs. Raiders
Saturday July, 7th: BYE Week
Saturday July, 14th: Home vs. Sharks


[/FONT]

So what happened to the Fairfield Crocs?

http://www.amnrl.com/news/croc-country-ct

 

[docbrown]

2. Establishment of New England Rugby League (NERL). Cities currently with multipule AMNRL/USARL clubs reduced to a single top tier club, others to become feeders. (Oneida feeder to B13, Wildcats and Warriors merge or come to some feeder arangement) - as other regions of the USA develop further second tier comps established.

My suggestion would be -

USARL & AMNRL can be maintained as two seperate leagues with teams split into different divisions - typically groups of 4.

So if these new teams do come into line that's about 5-6 divisions of 4.

To minimise costs but broaden overall scope -

Home & Away - 10 games
Play own division teams twice - 6 games
Play 2 teams from nearest division (so if AMNRL New England, play USARL New England sides) - 2 games
Play 2 teams from 2 other nearby divisions - 2 games

Week 1:
Top 2 teams from each division play off - Divisional Final - 1 game (the top winner from each league could go straight to their league final and have a bye week)

Week 2:
Other remaining division winners (obviously the other 2 winners from each league) play off - Regional Finals - 1 game

Week 3:
Week 2 winner plays Week 1 winner - similar to conference play off game - to decide best team from USARL & AMNRL 1 game

Week 4:
The two winners from each league play off Super Bowl style - 1 game

 

[Choo Choo]

So what happened to the Fairfield Crocs?

http://www.amnrl.com/news/croc-country-ct

I haven't seen a schedule or a website for them so your guess is as good as mine. However, the Raiders do have them listed on their schedule for the 2 June matchup.

http://www.raidersrlfc.com/

 

[Karl]

GPE's own statement below. Highlighted relevant bits.



GPE EXPANDS & ACQUIRES AMERICAN NATIONAL RUGBY LEAGUE

Consolidation of Professional Rugby Creates Formidable Competitor in Lucrative U.S. Sports Market​

​

(LOS ANGELES) MAY 11, 2012 – Grand Prix Sports, a subsidiary of Grand Prix Entertainment, LLC, a Los Angeles-based sports and entertainment company, announced the acquisition of The American National Rugby League (“AMNRL&#8221, the governing body for the development of the “American football like” sport of Rugby League in the USA. The AMNRL is exclusively sanctioned by the Rugby League International Federation (“RLIF&#8221.


“We’re very pleased to add the sport of Rugby League, led by our new partners at Star Group Communications, to Grand Prix’s sport investment portfolio.” Said Alan Rothenberg, Chairman of Grand Prix Sports. “The AMNRL has been making great strides in the development of Rugby League across America. Acquiring the exclusive rights to Rugby League is a major Grand Prix score on and off the field.”


Seen by many as a move to consolidate its growing influence on the “Father of American Football,” Grand Prix Founder William Tatham said, “Clearly International Rugby Board (“IRB&#8221 Union Rugby is the NFL of world rugby, but RLIF Rugby League is a formidable foe both on and off the field and growing stronger every day. Thus, we felt this expansion was a very important move for Grand Prix in our efforts to package the “Contact Sport of the World” and compete in the United States “Sports Market of the World.”


Grand Prix is most known in rugby world for its pioneering efforts to organize professional Rugby Union Sevens through its strategic and exclusive joint venture partnership with USA Rugby. USA Rugby, an official member of the Unites States Olympic Committee as well as the Rugby World Cup's International Rugby Board, recently extended through 2018 Grand Prix’s exclusive U.S. sanction, license and global broadcast rights to own, operate and globally broadcast the professional sport of Rugby Sevens. Rugby Sevens will debut as a new Olympic sport at the 2016 Rio de Janeiro Summer Games.


Tatham went on to say; “Trust me, Darwin’s “Theory of Evolution” couldn’t be more true in the shark infested waters of American sports business. We intend on doing far more than survive, and today’s acquisition makes Grand Prix ‘bigger, stronger and faster’. Besides, who wouldn’t want to team up with Russell Crowe?"


Hollywood film star Russell Crowe is Rugby League’s number one fan, owning the ‘South Sydney Rabbitohs’; a professional Rugby League franchise of the Australia based “National Rugby League”.


Former President of CBS Sports Neal Pilson, endorsed the move, stating, “While maintaining the independent integrity of the Rugby Union and Rugby League operations, yet folding them under one production umbrella, we at Grand Prix felt from a broadcast perspective this transaction was a smart move to avoid unnecessary confusion in a U.S. media market at a very critical time in rugby’s growth.” Pilson, a veteran sports dealmaker sits on Grand Prix Sports’ executive committee and exclusively represents Grand Prix’s U.S. Broadcast TV rights, concluded “Grand Prix’s new unified broadcast strategy will only help to expand Grand Prix’s already compelling broadcast opportunities and further the growth and popularity of the sport of rugby in the U.S.”


Grand Prix’s latest strategic competitive strike followed Grand Prix’s multi year – multi million dollar start up that culminated with the following 90 day countdown of achievements Grand Prix’s final countdown to its 2012 – 2013 kick off:

• Grand Prix sells the Grand Prix New York franchise interest for a U.S. rugby record $10,000,000 to businesswoman Carol Alyssa Childress

• Grand Prix names the NFL Network as Grand Prix’s exclusive broadcast partner for world class USA Rugby sanctioned professional rugby sevens championships

• Grand Prix names AEG’s Home Depot Center as Grand Prix’s home for world class USA Rugby sanctioned professional rugby sevens championships

• Grand Prix extends thru 2018 its USA Rugby awarded U.S. Exclusive Sanction, License and Global Broadcast Rights to own, operate and globally broadcast professional rugby sevens

• Grand Prix names Alan Rothenberg, Major League Soccer founder and former Olympic and FIFA World Cup official, as Grand Prix’s Chairman

• Grand Prix names Neal Pilson, former President of CBS Sports, overseeing Grand Prix domestic production and broadcast operations

• Grand Prix names Gary Marenzi, former President of MGM Worldwide Television, overseeing Grand Prix international production and distribution

• Grand Prix names Kelly Crabb, Olympic counsel and partner with Sheppard Mullin, as Grand Prix’s corporate counsel

This groundbreaking acquisition was further enhanced by the announcement that Grand Prix had also acquired the assets of World Rugby Alliance Holdings, LLC, including its wholly owned American National Rugby League (“AMNRL&#8221. The AMNRL is the exclusive U.S. sanctioning body of RLIF governed Rugby League. Grand Prix’s AMNRL is also home of the USA TOMAHAWKS, the 11th ranked 2013 Rugby League World Cup contender. Other assets that will now fall under Grand Prix Entertainment include a popular web site for Rugby League called WeAreRugby.com and several Rugby related apparel brands for licensed merchandise.
Linda Rosanio, President of WRA Managing Partner Star Group Communications, and a long time friend of Grand Prix’s Tatham, stated "Star Group Communications believes Rugby has a great future in America, and today's announcement sends a message that Grand Prix Rugby is a unified force to be reckoned with both here and abroad.”


Grand Prix’s latest sports acquisition brings the world’s two rugby codes under one umbrella, expanding Grand Prix’s rugby rights holdings and generating additional content for Grand Prix’s domestic and global digital distribution network.
Gary Marenzi, former President of MGM Worldwide Television who heads Grand Prix Studios overseeing global distribution of all Grand Prix content, endorsed the move stating, “With Grand Prix now owning the multi media rights to both rugby codes, this acquisition will have a geometric impact on the menu of rugby content we can now offer rugby rich global markets via our multi media partners.”


Niu said of the merger, “This alignment of interests between The AMNRL and Grand Prix is going to have game-changing effects on the sport of Rugby League not just here in the United States but throughout the Rugby world and you will be hearing about our exciting Rugby League plans soon enough.”

# # # # #​

So clearly they have acquired the actual AMNRL body as an asset of World Rugby Alliance Holdings LLC. It must have been a wholly owned subsidiary.

The RLIF would, I imagine, still have rights and control under whatever arrangement has been entered into to grant the governing body rights to the AMNRL, so one would imaging that the AMNRL, whoever owns it, is not a completely loose cannon.

With GPE owning the rights and relevant bodies controlling League and Union in the USA now, they are obviously serious about growing both sports and recognize the advantage of not having one and ending up with someone else competing against them for the same space of "alternate contact football code". If the sports flourish, they make money (or at least increase their chances of doing so. Whatever they do to try to make money must, by definition, be good for the games in the USA in terms of profile etc. GPE can't benefit if they stagnate or die back.

I am struggling to see what people's objections are considering that before this happened, there was little love or application of resources to the expansion and development of League in the USA.

 

[Evil Homer]

The RLIF would, I imagine, still have rights and control under whatever arrangement has been entered into to grant the governing body rights to the AMNRL, so one would imaging that the AMNRL, whoever owns it, is not a completely loose cannon.

I think you're giving the RLIF far too much credit in assuming there is any sort of arrangement at all. The AMNRL aren't listed as members on the RLIF website, and whatever official status they do have appears to be by default, presumably because they were there first.

The objections are because you cannot have a national governing body owned by a third party company. You just can't, it's fundamentally wrong. Even if GP do provide a massive boost to the sport, they should do so through involvement in a partnership, or through the purchase of exclusive rights to a competition or whatever. They cannot be allowed to 'own' the central governing body for the sport, for the same reason that News Corp could not buy the Australian government (for example). I do not see any evidence that GP owns the governing body to RU in the USA, and I'm pretty sure the IRB would expel them if that was the case.

 

[Karl]

Question -

USARL looks like a relatively recent East Coast creation. It does not say it has any RLIF affiliation.

AMNRL formed in 1998 and says it is an affiliate member of the RLIF and that it is the governing body for Rugby League in the USA.

Neither website refers to or mentions the other "body"

The RLIF does not mention the AMNRL (or the USARL) as an affiliate member and other sources (like Wikipedia) for the RLIF do not link it to the AMNRL.

SO - WTF is actually going on in the USA and what is the deal with the RLIF and it's involvement/control of whats going on over there?

 

[Evil Homer]

SO - WTF is actually going on in the USA and what is the deal with the RLIF and it's involvement/control of whats going on over there?

There is none, because the RLIF is a complete shambles. The whole issue in the USA stems from the incompetence of the RLIF - any other sport would have suspended the USA as a whole from international competition at the time of the split, actively mediated the dispute and worked out a solution within a couple of months. In RL, we have had minimal, diffident action from the RLIF and the result has been 18 months of an absolutely ridiculous situation with a dictatorial, power-hungry organization using selection for the national team as a means of blackmailing players and actively trying to harm the development of the game for their own benefit. Apparently the RLIF has now told David Niu and the AMNRL that they need to co-operate with the USARL, I'm not sure what good this will do long-term but hopefully it might mean an end to the aforementioned situation and allow the organizations to co-exist peacefully even if they do seem to share totally different ideologies.

 

[docbrown]

There is none, because the RLIF is a complete shambles. The whole issue in the USA stems from the incompetence of the RLIF - any other sport would have suspended the USA as a whole from international competition at the time of the split, actively mediated the dispute and worked out a solution within a couple of months. In RL, we have had minimal, diffident action from the RLIF

One crap situation made worse by another crap situation...

 

[deal.with.it]

So the AMNRL was owned by World Rugby Alliance Holdings, LLC.
which was partnered with Star Group, in some capacity?
I wonder if any of the existing or previous clubs new this was the way the AMNRL was structured?
Still trying to understand the "partner" status with World Rugby Alliance Holdings and Star Group.