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AMNRL Week #5

spinnerhowland

Juniors
Messages
788
Axefan, The Axemen beat Philly 48 to 26. It was a good win and we are primed for a tough one against DC on Saturday.
Only one injury concern form the game. Spinner spend 10 minutes in the Sin bin for punching and both he and Taco Pope used blood Bin subs to controll bleeding again this week. Taco Nose and Spinner with a new cut under his chin about 1/2 inch from the one he got 2 weeks ago.
 

spinnerhowland

Juniors
Messages
788
The Axemen are looking at possbily increasing the numbers that travel for the Glen Mills game. We are trying to rework the Budget to allow us to fly 19. We know how strong the Bulls are at home and it is the toughest match and venue any team can have in the AMNRL. Depending on our standings after our buy week we will decide if it is worth our while (play off spots) to travel with extra players.
 

Tomahawk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
807
spinnerhowland said:
The Axemen are looking at possbily increasing the numbers that travel for the Glen Mills game. We are trying to rework the Budget to allow us to fly 19. We know how strong the Bulls are at home and it is the toughest match and venue any team can have in the AMNRL. Depending on our standings after our buy week we will decide if it is worth our while (play off spots) to travel with extra players.

Spinner;

I have to say no matter what, it is worth traveling with the best team you have for the following reasons.

1. It is the only venue that you have about 1200 fans watching the match

2. It is probally the best venue to play at, with the second best being the Axeman venue at the UNF.

3. The compatision is of th better half of the league. The Bulls right now are one of the best 3 teams in the league. The other two teams being the Knights and the Wildcats.

4. There is always a chance for an upset. Any team can get beat on any givin day.

5. There is a change for the Axeman to rack up some points. Would rather get 1 point then none.

There are five reasons why I believe the Axeman should come with their best team to play the Bulls. Even know I play for the Bulls, I am a fan of the AMNRL.
 

sharkies9

Juniors
Messages
117
Spinner keep on getting those cuts, they make you look better looking everyday. ha ha Bring alot of guys it looked like glen mills had about 30 guys playing for them on saturday. They made more line changes than the carolina hurricanes did last night.
 

phat cat

Juniors
Messages
44
Rumor has it that the number of players allowed on the bench will be limited come playoff time. I have heard 20 in the semis and 17 in the finals.
 

Tomahawk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
807
phat cat said:
Rumor has it that the number of players allowed on the bench will be limited come playoff time. I have heard 20 in the semis and 17 in the finals.


So a team that can have anywhere between 20 to 30 players should be penalized because they are able to field a team of these numbers. The Bulls are not the only that big numbers, and the big numbers are only at their home matches. I was on the Knights web page yesterday and counted 26 players in their team photo. When the Bulls were in Jacksonville a couple weeks ago they suited 20 to 25 players. Then when the Bulls played the Slayers at the Slayers they suited about 22 players.

phat cat;

You have seen the numbers the Bulls have traveled with last year. In the Raiders match last year Bill Handsberry had to play because one of the Bulls player had gotten knocked out of the game.

Also I can remember playing the Wildcats at their home field and they had so many players they did not have enough jerseys. If someone came off they take off their jersey and give it to the person that was coming in for them. Have seen the same thing with the Knights.

Now is it fair for players who are not the best 17 players who helped get their team to the playoffs and even the finals? Yes we play Rugby League. However, we are not the NRL. The AMNRL never set limits on the number of players or substitutes a team can have. They have done this for 9 years now and they should not change.

Do I believe in setting a number of foreign, non-US residents a team can have? Yes I would favor this, and I think a good number could be like said before 2 to 3 per team.

This would be unfair too to many players that haven given up so much for the AMNRL and this great sport. I understand why certain teams want this rule, but a team that can get 25 or more players to play for their team should not be penalized because another team can not get that number or are to lazy to go and recruit.
 

spinnerhowland

Juniors
Messages
788
I personally am in favor of allowing up to 25 players for regular season games to allow as many players to have contact with the sport of Rugby League as possible. The truth is that the fringe players are only getting game time in the last 10 or 15 minutes or so when the game has usually been decided. I do however think that a cap of 20 is a fair number for both play off and final games. The reasons are simple.
#1 Traveling teams are at a disadvantage if they have to compete against a team that has more than 20 players to use as interchange.
#2 During play off games you are not going have the blow out scores that you have during regular season games that allow teams to put their newer or weaker players on the field and therefore those players are not going to get game time anyway.
It is not to say that they are not a part of the team, it is just that you need to field your best players to win the tougher games.
Getting as many players as possible to have contact with the sport is the priority during the regualr season but making the finals fair should take over once the play offs start. Nothing is ideal and we are all making the small changes we need to move the sport forward in the USA and I feel that a 20 player rule for playoffs is a fair compromise.
 

phat cat

Juniors
Messages
44
If you have so many players maybe its time to start a second grade competition with teams like the bulls, cats, knights so that there is a chance for some of the younger guys and extra "foriegners" to play some games and then come out and support their team mates in the first grade game?

as far as the subs, it changes the way that the game is played when you are constantly running subs on and off the field. it takes away the advantage of being fit and places a premium on being as big a meat head as humanly possible. The great part about rugby is that you have to attack and defend. If i wanted to play american football i would. you shouldnt be able to change your "quarterback" for a "middle linebacker" everytime you lose the ball.

By recruiting and bringing younger players through the system you will hopefully allow them to improve enough to make the 1st 20ish. that is the true advantage of having a large club. because we are trying to grow clubs here are we not?
 

Tomahawk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
807
Reasons why I am against 20 players in the playoff’s or even the Grand Final.

#1 – How many of your 1st year players will be one of the best 20 players on their team? It can take an American player 2 to 3 years to get a fully grasp on the game. This I believe will discourage American players.

#2 – A team brings over two to four foreign players, and that cancelled out two to four of your American talent.

#3 – A team has 2 foreign players, and had 3 or four former semi pros or professional players on their team. That means your changes are even at more of a disadvantage at being one of the best 20 players. Discourages American players from wanting to play.

#4 – A person player a total of 8 to 9 games, basically gives up his entire summer, and cannot play in the playoffs or Grand Final because they are not one of the best 20 guys on their team. Why should he be penalized?

#5 – A player gets injured in the beginning of season, and works his @ss to come back, and comes back the next to last game. However, he is not one of your best 20 players at that time. Should he be penalized?

There are just 5 reasons I think it is a bad idea, and I could go on and on. The AMNRL is still in the developmental stages. When the AMNRL has enough teams to field a team of 20 players on each team, and every team is competitive with each other, then I think it would be a good time to do this. My opinion is right now is not the time to do this. It is going to hurt more teams, and hurt the league in the long run.
 

Tomahawk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
807
If you have so many players maybe its time to start a second grade competition with teams like the bulls, cats, knights so that there is a chance for some of the younger guys and extra "foreigners" to play some games and then come out and support their team mates in the first grade game?

Yes I agree with you on this point. However, right now you will not have enough players in the south to do this. The Bulls would be the only team to field a 2nd team. One of the reasons why the Bulls changed conferences was because of the travel. Remember it take you 1 hour and about 30 minutes to get from Philly to N.Y.C. Then add another 30 minutes to get to the Wildcats home field. With all that traveling the 2nd team competition would fall apart. It would not last an entire season.

as far as the subs, it changes the way that the game is played when you are constantly running subs on and off the field. it takes away the advantage of being fit and places a premium on being as big a meat head as humanly possible. The great part about rugby is that you have to attack and defend. If i wanted to play American football i would. you shouldn’t be able to change your "quarterback" for a "middle linebacker" every time you lose the ball.

Yes this is what Rugby League a great sport. However, if the AMNRL ever wants to be professional or get on TV in the US this is not going to be able to happen. American sports fans want to see fresh players, BIG HITS, break away runs. The American sports fan likes the more violent sports and the sport that entertains you. Why do you think Football, Hockey, Ultimate Fighting, Boxing, Basketball, and other sports are so popular in the US. All these sports have something that American people want to see. In my 4 years of playing this game I have asked people if there was a rugby match on ESPN and an NFL football game what would they watch? The overwhelming amounts say they might watch 5 minutes of the rugby game, but they would then tern on the football game.

By recruiting and bringing younger players through the system you will hopefully allow them to improve enough to make the 1st 20ish. that is the true advantage of having a large club. because we are trying to grow clubs here are we not?

The AMNRL might be that way in areas like the north, but is not in the Philadelphia area.
 

spinnerhowland

Juniors
Messages
788
As the AMNRL expands, teams are having to travel greater distances and the costs increase. Allowing the home team to field unlimited players gives them a huge advantage.
Like I said, regular season games have a goal of allowing as many players as possible to get game time and enjoy the sport. Play off games are to decide a winning team not winning players. Yes, some guys are going to miss out but his does not mean that they are not a part of the team.
I also feel that all AMNRL players must have played a minimum of 3 regular season games to be eligable to play in any play off game. This stops any team from bringing in "outsiders" for just play offs.
A hypothetical for you. The Axemen finish the regular season in a position that gives them home field in the first round, meaning that a team will have the expense of traveling to Florida to play. I am sure they would not be able to bring their entire roster. We should not be allowed field (nor would we) all 28 guys on our roster to play against 17 or so in a play off game. All our players are aware of this and all are happy to give their all during the regular season for the advancementof the team and the sport but they also understand that a fair go must be given to visiting teams come play off time.
 

tcc_dc

Juniors
Messages
84
There are lots of positives and negatives to each arguement, but other things to consider:

1. Weaker teams might not want to travel later in the season if they know they can get 13-15 guys but have to play a squad of 25.
2. Having 25 guys might prevent the better players (potential Tomahawks) getting the time they need to continue to develop.
3. Increase chance for injuries for teams who do not have the subs, will continuously be attacked by fresh guys.

As for the playoffs, there should be limits. Or maybe a better solution would be is that if you sub (except blood), you are out of the game, no returns. With 25 people, that is almost two squads.

The AMNRL should start next year as numbers seem to be up to have an extra period after the official game for teams with larger rosters. This would help develop younger players who only get 15 minutes a game and also develop potential referees.

tcc
 

Mr_Ugly

Juniors
Messages
825
Travelling would obviously be a problem, but a suggestion might be a 9 a side 2nd division / reserve grade. That way most of the playing roster would get a game, but you could restrict the top div to 17 players.

If needed, a couple of players could back up for both games, which is common in Australia (or at least used to be) at A-grade level.
 

Tomahawk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
807
First if we take the issue of the amount of players that suit up for a home game compared to an away game I think it evens out for the most part. Most teams can suit 25 or close to a home match. To an away match almost every team suits anywhere from 15 to 20 guys.

When the Bulls played Jacksonville in Jacksonville the Axemen had more substitutes then they did. When the Bulls played the Slayers the Bulls suited up about the same, maybe 20 guys. The only team that has trouble getting guys is the Delaware MantaRays and they can only get about 17 players for a home and an away match. Every other team has no problem suiting up 23 or more players for a home match.

Second is if you take the Bulls roster from this Saturdays match against the Sharks and cut that down to 20. 3 rookies, a 3-year veteran, and a 9-year veteran would be cut. Also cut would be 2 rookies (1 had prior commitment and other is injured), 3-year veteran (Who is injured but could be back for the playoffs), and a 5-year veteran (had prior commitment). Would it be fair to the rookie players who are getting better, but have not reached the same level as guys who have been playing the game 4,5,6,7, or more years? Is it fair to a 5 year veteran who goes out there and put is knees on the line every game for his teammates to be told he can not be in the playoffs, but helped his team get there.

Third, is I believe the AMNRL is a unique Rugby League competition. I think the way it was set up; the game was meant to attract former high school and college football athletes. Every player on the team has a role, and those roles are all different. The AMNRL is not the NRL. If you want Rugby League to reach the same status as Arena Football, NFL, ECT, you are going to have to give the people what they want to see.

When playing International games you should follow the same rules. These rules are you can only have 17 players a side. When you play a match at that level you are going to have no problem getting 17 players.

Finally, I understand and know why certain teams want this. However, for the most part it is not going o change anything. Few teams are going to be able to travel to the Wildcats, Knights, or Bulls (All former AMNRL Champs) and beat them with there best 17 guys. So is that really going to change anything?

I think the competition in the league has gotten tremendously better then when I started playing three years ago. My first year, the New York Knights beat the Glen Mills Bulls in the Grand Final. My second year the expansion team of the Wildcats made it to the Grand Final beating the Bulls. My third year saw the expansion team of the Raiders come in the league and make the playoffs. The same year the Slayers came in the league and were competitive. This year we see the Axeman, and they have a great change to make the playoffs.

Why make a change now when your league is only getting better each year? You keep it the same way and in the next 5 years you will have 5 or more new teams, and at least 75 or more new players. If you make this change you will loose players, and your competition will because weaker.
 

spinnerhowland

Juniors
Messages
788
All players get to play in the regular season games. That is 10 this season.
All of them should be aware that they are competing for oneof 20 spots that will be available should their team make the play offs.
#1 The 10 regular season games have 2 goals. To get as many people playing Rugby League as possible AND to allow teams to compete for play off spots.
You are correct that the regular season does even itself out with each team having a Home and Away game and therefore allowing more players than 20 does cancel out for each team at home.
#2 Play offs do not allow a game at home and away and therefore allowing more than 20 to the home team gives them a huge advantage. Play off games are to let the best team win to advance and all players on a team should be happy to allow the best 20 compete to win. For this reason there should be a cap.
The AMNRL is making great steps forward and there are a few things that will need to be addressed next season in regards to keeping things fair for all clubs.
My personal feelings are as follows.
#1 Each team should be allowed only 3 NON residents per team. To be a resident you must either be a US Citizen, have a green card/work permit and/or reside in the USA for more than 6 months of the year on a valid visa.
#2 To be allowed play in any play off game, you must have played at least 3 regular season games for your club.
#3 A cap of 20 per team for play off games. Regular season games should still allow more so that it give any potential player the chance to come in contact with this great game.

With expansion comes some great opportunities such as more players, better players, more exposure and the potential for better and more sponsors. However it also brings in challenges such as increased travel costs, operating costs and the need for more control of all involved so that the integrity of the game is the nubmer one priority.
This year has seen a huge step forward with half the league needing to fly for at least one game and the Axemen flying for all away games. It brings a true feeling of professionalism to the sport and we all need to ensure that the quality of the product we put on the field and the perception we emit to others is always at the forefront of our minds.
 

sharkies9

Juniors
Messages
117
well put spinner,
with more than 20 on a side come playoffs we might as well be playing gridiron. Nothing like some healthy competition to strengthen a side
 

lloydy

Juniors
Messages
73
As it has been said the home team usually has a huge numbers advantage in most AMNRL games. What I would like to see is more communication between the clubs with the possibility of playing a reserve game. Even if it's 10 on 10 for 40 minutes it's better than nothing and ensures that eveyone gets a run and would restict the need for endless interchanges during the final 20 just to appease the subs.
 

Tomahawk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
807
sharkies9, spinner, or any other AMNRL player out there;

The Standing to this date are as the following. The Wildcats, Warriors, Bulls, Slayers, Sharks, and Fight all have only played 4 matches. The Raiders have only played 3 matches, and the MantaRays have only played 2 matches. So the point system is going to change a little. Each team also has to play each other one more time. Go to www.AMNRL.com to see standings. However, this is how the playoffs would be if the season ended right now.

Playoffs Week 1 - Conference Winners would be the Knights and the Bulls

Game A - Team 3 Seed (Wildcats) v. Team 6 Seed (Warriors) at Wildcats
Game B - Team 4 Seed (Axeman) v. Team 5 Seed (Sharks) at Axeman

Playoffs Week 2
Game C - Team 2 Seed v. Highest remaining seed
Game D - Top Seed v. Lowest remaining seed

Chnapionship Grand Final
Winner of Game C and Game D

Do you think the Warriors, Axeman, or Sharks could field a team of 20 or 17 players against the Knights, Wildcats, or Bulls, and beat them? My answer would be no. Would these teams have a better chance fielding as many players as they can, and beating one of these teams? My answer would be yes. I believe if the Axeman made the playoffs, and won their first match and had to travel their 2nd match they could surely field a team of more then 20 players and be competitive.

I have been on the Bulls for the last 3 years, and have played in one Grand Final match. I did not get into my first two Grand Final matches. I know how it feels to work so hard all season long, and be on the team the makes the Grand Final and not be able to play. Do I really care if the Bulls make it to the Grand Final and I am not one of the 17 guys that get the chance to play for the championship? No, because I have already been on a team that won a Grand Final. Do I think I could make a difference in a Grand Final match? Yes, and I have making one of the last tackles in last years Grand Final in which I might have only played 5 to 10 minutes. No matter if you have 17 players or 40 players you all play as a team to get to that goal to win the Grand Final. And I think it is wrong to tell a person because he is not one of the best 17 guys on his team he cannot play in a Grand Final. A person who is not as athletic as his other teammates has to work harder to make a difference on their team. I am one of those players, and am not the only player on my team that is in the same situation.

The competition in the AMNRL over the last 3 years has gotten better each year. One of the reasons why the Wildcats came about was because the Knights had to many players, and the same thing happened the next year to the Wildcats and the AMNRL got the Raiders. Then came the Braves and Warriors in the 2006 season, and I bet there will be another team coming into the competition next year.

Why change something that is going so good?
 
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