And back to 2nd we go!

Discussion in 'St George Illawarra Dragons' started by Saintsified, Jul 5, 2018.

  1. SBD82

    SBD82 First Grade

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    Agreed. (Well, almost, the stamina comment is belied by edge players playing 80 and middles playing 40/50/60)

    But I get sick of this forum claiming that Mary is a moron for making nighty defend in the middle. The irony of this statement is mind boggling.

    Then there's the "should have defended lawrie there", which is whole other level.

    Nighty shouldn't have been defending at 4. It became more and more obvious the longer the game went on. But hearing people put shit on Mary for making nighty defend in the middle gets awfully irritating after a while.
     
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  2. True_Believer

    True_Believer Juniors

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    I'm not sure what the alternative was though. I have since been led to believe Kerr is injured and Allgood has only just returned from an injury so our bench options were pretty much what we saw.

    Given what happened during the game with 2 HIAs and our bench reduced to 3 in the first 5 minutes, I'm guessing no matter who we put there we would have had to expect that player to play the rest of the game there and none of our options would have done any better. If Nighty didn't play there for the full game our middle would have become fatigued quicker and the rout would more than likely have happened anyway.
     
  3. The Damo

    The Damo Juniors

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    Round 9 ain’t early season.
    A game where both sides team list has that many changes, and where 82 points are scored is just not a reliable guide to much of anything. You can argue round 9 is too long ago to take anything out of it if you want, I’d disagree. Claiming that match on Friday somehow tells us more than a game played only 8 rounds ago when both teams had close to their best 17 - is wrongheaded.
     
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  4. BennyV

    BennyV Coach

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    The alternative is to rotate the likes of Sele and Robson (even Mann) through this position throughout the game. None of them are naturals in the spot but it reduces the fatigue factor and puts some added strength on that edge. You can then rely on experienced players like LAM, Latimore, Graham and McInnes to hold the middle.

    Problem is that Mary intended on using his backrowers for 80minutes (already silly considering one is Leilua) and has no ability to adapt away from that plan.
     
  5. BennyV

    BennyV Coach

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    Lol agree, there’s plenty of reasons to hang shit on Mary without making stuff up!

    Although it shouldn’t come as a shock that many on this forum don’t get the difference between middle and edge forwards...
     
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  6. giboz71

    giboz71 Bench

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    Absolutely.

    The main problem was the bench make up was wrong, made worse by the fact that Host got injured, and there were 2 HIA’s in the forwards. Unfortunately, shit like that can happen.

    But again, options were limited as we had 4 starting forwards unavailable through Origin. No team has had to deal with that situation this year. As I’ve said it’s a one off we won’t likely face any time soon.

    Sure Mary could have rotated who defended on the edge but that disrupts the prop rotation and other interchanges. As you say, that would not have stopped the rout.

    Mary needs to adapt better to game situations I agree but people hanging shit on him because of what happened in Melbourne need to look at the big picture. We’re stil equal first so clearly he’s done better than most of us would have expected.
     
  7. Dennis Papaioannou

    Dennis Papaioannou Juniors

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    I share your trepidation.
    When you compare this year to last year.
    We now have a specialist half back who has played nearly all games. The most important factor.
    Dufty offers much more in attack, not much in defence but overall an improvement over Dugan.
    A few players have taken their game to another level namely JDB and Sims.
    The results in 2018 reflect those improvements but games like Melbourne highlights the coaching deficiency big time which has not improved to any great degree.
    So disappointing against Melbourne.
    The attitude in defence was more like a mass white flag surrender.
    Melbourne reserve grade + Smith are good but not THAT good.
    Finals looming...God help us.
     
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  8. Dennis Papaioannou

    Dennis Papaioannou Juniors

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    Yes but you can point to a number of seasons where we were doing well at the beginning of the season. Most on here are afraid that the end of season taper is in full swing yet again.
    Don't forget we beat Melbourne at home first time 'round..
    The Melbourne game is not about the actual loss or the statistics, it is about how we lost that game.
    Ridiculously poor defence and capitulation.
    If we had gone down fighting and lost by 8 points, no one would be talking about it by now.
    13 straight losses down there - it's embarrassing.
     
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  9. The Damo

    The Damo Juniors

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    You can point to other seasons, and that is valid. But the best indicator of how the teams ‘this year’ match up is the 2 games they’ve played against each other. The first was in round 9, both teams pretty much full strength (they slightly less than us, but very close). And we beat them 4 tries to 3, plus penalties giving us 20 point margin.
    The second was between very different teams to those that play every week, they beat us by 22, and 82 points were scored. Those two things make it very much an outlier statistically, which makes it an unreliable source to project from. I’m not saying there aren’t concerns from it, or that it should be ignored, but that the first game ‘should’ be a much better guide.
    For those teams that have more players involved in Origin and rep games, the regular season really has 3 parts - before, during, after.
    And traditionally, across all teams and years, the best predictor of the after period is the before period, not the during.
    Also yes, gods I hope we beat those pricks down there soon, that record sucks arse.
     
  10. Dennis Papaioannou

    Dennis Papaioannou Juniors

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    I am not using the Melbourne game as any sort of form guide for all the reasons you point out.
    My disappointment stems from the way we defended. No grit no attitude - just pathetic.
    It's those kind of performances that affects certain players psychologically.
     
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  11. Bests Golden Boots

    Bests Golden Boots Juniors

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    Well for 65 minutes he did, then for the last five they ran past him.

    I must admit I never knew Flos dream was the same as Oates, to be an edge backrower, live and learn I suppose.
     
  12. Dragsters

    Dragsters Juniors

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    I reckon Flo never knew it either...
     
  13. ebbedfred

    ebbedfred Juniors

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    And come September, games in July will mean nothing, so this loss won't matter.
     
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  14. ozbuck

    ozbuck Juniors

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    No one remembers what they ate for dinner 48nights ago, and noone remembers where a team was positioned a couple of months out from the finals. It's useless come finals time..it'll save nobodies soul. Even coming minor premiers doesn't save your soul...look at the Saints in 2009. If ppl were judging a current coach on perfomance in current pressure situations he would've been sacked straight after the game and 2010 would never have happened the way it did.

    The only usefulness that harping on about now we're second rather than first is it gives one the opportunity to shit on particular people e.g. the coach.

    Most long term saints fans rave about D.Waite but he never won us a GF, he never got the result at the end of the day. Mary might not either.

    A top 4 finish this year will be exceeding all expectations. Anything more than willing be a ridiculous achievement. But even if we finish 4th there'll be those salivating at the bit to trounce Mary "we were first and we finished fourth...he is not up to standard. Blah blah blah."

    Nice to have a scapegoat at hand huh
     
  15. Bests Golden Boots

    Bests Golden Boots Juniors

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    Even if he he gets us a top four finish he'll still be bald.
    Rant over.
     
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  16. ouryears

    ouryears Juniors

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    True.

    But 3 losses from recent games tells us we are declining rapidly.

    Trends do matter.

    Within 2 weeks we shall know.

    Must not keep losing
     
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  17. Saintsified

    Saintsified Bench

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    Mary is still shit
     
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  18. Dennis Papaioannou

    Dennis Papaioannou Juniors

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    Thrown to the wolves...better if he just dropped him to reserve grade than letting him get trampled.
    Mystifying selection and use of the bench.
     
  19. nontime111

    nontime111 Juniors

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    this is going to seem totally bizzare to all and sundry....when I lived in Melbourne playing music there in the 90s I actually was lucky enough to attend my first and only ever 2 Dragons games since supporting them fanatically since 1975! and the 2 gems of games i wittnessed we BOTH WON!! so I never saw Saints get beat at Olympic park! the first game was a usual club game in 99 early on about round 14 I think, Storm had won EVERY home game strait and the local papers were already BS ign and totally writing us off." Oh how many will Storm kill Dragons by'" hehe etc...all week long.... I said to my partner lets go I can sniff a victory I think Dragons will give these pricks a football lesson.and sure enough in a very close game next minute NATHAN BLACKLOCK intercepts and runs the whole length of the field to score and we go on to win! then in the first semi there Blacklock, Wishy, MARY, Mundine, Barrett, Ainsy etc SMASH them by HEAPS cant remember the score 46 something but the tries just kept coming was magic to watch for me whod never even seen the mighties ever coming from QLD now in WA sadly....so its extra sad for me to see us not beat them slimy bastards for 13 years or so....the funniest memory from my first ever Dragons game live was actually sitting at the train station waiting to go into the ground busily hurriedly hand stitching a huge red number 9 on the back of my saints jersey as I was a huge Brownie fan....some kind of wierd superstition I had that told me if I stitched the 9 on wed win and sure enough Bobs your aunties live in lover
     
  20. Drag Queen

    Drag Queen Juniors

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    Keep the faith mate. Barring injury this is doable. I'd be over the moon if we make the semis.
     
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