Auckland RL pulling Warriors out of NSW U/20s

[latingringo101]

New Warriors owners announce plans to scrap U-20 side

The new owners of the Warriors are wasting no time in making their presence felt, announcing the imminent culling of the club's U-20 team.

Just a day after declaring they'd be making no "radical changes" following the formal acceptance of their ownership bid, Auckland Rugby League Chairman Cameron McGregor told Newshub there are plans to withdraw the side from the Jersey Flegg Cup, formerly known as the NSW Cup

McGregor said the ARL's long-term plan to retain local talent is to ensure that it's bred through the national domestic competition, rather than the fledgling age-group league based out of Australia.

Read more: https://goo.gl/BLM6F5

 

[jim_57]

A strong NZ 2nd tier comp really is a missing link. Even if it is mostly amatuer I'd be all for pulling the NSW Cup team out and aiming for a 6-8 team national comp if it could be proven viable.

 

[latingringo101]

A strong NZ 2nd tier comp really is a missing link. Even if it is mostly amatuer I'd be all for pulling the NSW Cup team out and aiming for a 6-8 team national comp if it could be proven viable.

I wonder if 5-10 years down the track they'll think about pulling the Warriors out of the NRL?

 

[jim_57]

I wonder if 5-10 years down the track they'll think about pulling the Warriors out of the NRL?

I doubt RL in NZ will ever be strong enough to create a rival competition to the NRL. It would make sense to have 2/3 NZ NRL teams eventually with a semi-pro comp backing them up. A long way off that at the moment though.

 

[KeepingTheFaith]

f**k the ARL. Half the reason we struggle to develop talent is that the local comp isn't adequate for it.

There will be no semi-professional second tier comp that comes close to ISP.

This is a horrible step backwards.

 

[Pommy]

I wonder if 5-10 years down the track they'll think about pulling the Warriors out of the NRL?

My guess is no, you only have to look how keen the English players are to move here to see NZ teams wouldn’t stand a chance at retaining their best talent.

 

[The Great Dane]

This'll almost certainly back fire, badly.

There simply isn't the interest or money in NZ to support competitions of the same caliber and standard as in Australia, all pulling these teams out of the Australian comps will do is stunt their juniors development as they won't be exposed to the same standard of competition in NZ as they would have been exposed to in Australia.

It also probably won't lead to a national second-tier competition in NZ, that'd take huge investment, huge investment that the Auckland RL by themselves simply can't afford, and investment that has failed to materialise for a long time now and from the information that we have I don't see how this decision will change that.
If they want a NZ national comp (and I'm not convinced that the Auckland RL actually do want that so much as they want Warriors/Auckland development teams posing as clubs in a national comp) this isn't the way to go about it, you set up the comp with all the investors, clubs, and broadcasters lined up, then source the players, not the other way around...

All I think they are doing is trying to get more Kiwi kids (and their families) to stay in NZ and sign with the Warriors instead of moving over here in pursuit of opportunity at other clubs, and they won't really even achieve that as once you get down to it there are only so many spots in their system and the other clubs aren't just going to stop pursuing Kiwi juniors.

The only interesting side effect from this that I can potentially see happening is the possibility of Australian NRL clubs setting up development teams in NZ (or affiliating themselves with Kiwi clubs) as part of these competitions in NZ that the Auckland RL are setting up to keep free access to that player pool open, not sure if that would be a good thing or a bad thing ( I can see pros and cons to the situation), or if the Auckland RL would allow it (it'd be stupid to try and stop it frankly), but that seems an inevitability given time if the Auckland RL is successful in what they are attempting, at which point the whole reason that they are doing it will have been undermined...

Anyway I'm rambling a bit, but there're interesting times ahead in NZ with all that is going on.

 

[The Great Dane]

Another thing that this would affect if I'm correct in that what the Auckland RL is trying to build is a nation wide development system for the Warriors instead of a true second teir is the potential of more NZ clubs joining the NRL.

It'll be very, very hard for them to establish their own juniors systems or to compete with the Warriors for juniors in NZ if the Warriors have basically created I giant national system designed with the express purpose of funneling all the talent into Auckland...

 

[taipan]

Looking on the other side of the equation,with less Kiwi kids available here or in current lower grade Oz comps, that may mean more reliance on home grown Aussie kids, who otherwise may be lost to the game because a Kiwi kid got his spot.
Just a thought.that's all.

 

[adamkungl]

Looks like I'm in the minority thinking this idea has potential. Regardless of whether you think this will work, I think we could all agree that NZ League needs a shake up. To keep doing the same thing and expect different results.. etc
The NZRL/Kiwis, the Warriors, and the Auckland RL must work together to deliver better results for all 3.

I'd start with 3 Auckland clubs representing City, South and West, and 3 non-Auckland; Whangerei, Hamilton and Rotorua or Tauranga, with the goal of stability and exposure, then expansion. (yes I know they've been down this road before). Mirror it with u18s and u16s.
10 weeks home and away + a final.
Including the Warriors 20s puts 20 professional quality players into this system every year.
They could also recruit ex-Kiwis and Warriors that are retired from NRL at the other end of the scale.
Invest in quality development officers and coaches for these 6 teams.
6 teams, half the size of NSW Cup, it shouldn't be too far off the quality desired if they invest in professionalism.

Below that competition retain a national conference rep league so every province is represented.

The #2 Rugby League nation needs to have a decent national league. I'll be watching with interest.

 

[Springs09]

Sport isn't just about the top level. When your major development system is just placing teams in Australian comps and neglecting local comps, yeah you might get some strong juniors in the next few years but where are the next generation going to come from? Local comps that don't exist?

NZ need to focus on their local stuff first and stop relying on Australian systems.

 

[adamkungl]

Yeah. While it is true that this move might weaken the Warriors system in the short term, the value to the sport as a whole will provide greater long term benefits.
It has been suggested that NZ doesn't have the playing numbers to maintain a comp of NSW Cup standard ever. That will never improve until the effort goes into grassroots and national competitions instead of funneling all talent into Australian comps.

 

[The Great Dane]

Looks like I'm in the minority thinking this idea has potential. Regardless of whether you think this will work, I think we could all agree that NZ League needs a shake up. To keep doing the same thing and expect different results.. etc
The NZRL/Kiwis, the Warriors, and the Auckland RL must work together to deliver better results for all 3.

I'd start with 3 Auckland clubs representing City, South and West, and 3 non-Auckland; Whangerei, Hamilton and Rotorua or Tauranga, with the goal of stability and exposure, then expansion. (yes I know they've been down this road before). Mirror it with u18s and u16s.
10 weeks home and away + a final.
Including the Warriors 20s puts 20 professional quality players into this system every year.
They could also recruit ex-Kiwis and Warriors that are retired from NRL at the other end of the scale.
Invest in quality development officers and coaches for these 6 teams.
6 teams, half the size of NSW Cup, it shouldn't be too far off the quality desired if they invest in professionalism.

Below that competition retain a national conference rep league so every province is represented.

The #2 Rugby League nation needs to have a decent national league. I'll be watching with interest.

Where is the money and investment going to come from for this, and why is that investment only materialising it's self now when there has been ample opportunity for a nation comp to be built in NZ over the years?

Why knee cap player development and junior development not just in the short term but forever, unless there is a truly dramatic change in the landscape in NZ they are never going to be able to muster the same amount of interest in RL as Australia and their local leagues will never be able to match the standard of Australia, why not benefit from that higher standard when it is literally on your doorstep and why is it bad thing that they do tack themselves onto Australian comps?

What makes you think that the ARL has any interest in starting a serious national comp in NZ, from what they have said that isn't what they are planning anyway, they are planning what is effectively a development league owned and run by the ARL as a way of keeping as much Kiwi talent in the Warriors system as possible, the national comps would be a front for what is effectively one big club development system that develops it's players by playing them almost exclusively against each other instead of against other clubs development teams, in other words they are trying to close off Kiwi talent from the competition as much as possible, and that includes potential competition for that talent in NZ as well.
Even if they were founding a national competition in NZ it'd always play second fiddle to the NRL, and even if they were to allow clubs unaffiliated to the ARL/Warriors to take part in the comp (which from what they have said so far seems highly unlikely if they can avoid it) those clubs would almost certainly see it as either only a stepping stone to eventually joining a higher standard of play in NSWRL/QRL and/or the NRL or as the best that their region can pull off as they are never going to be a big enough club to join the NRL or the other Aussie leagues or will be affiliated/run by the other NRL clubs based in Australia.

Anyway just talk to the majority of Kiwi and Warriors fans, they aren't happy, they just see this as either a cost cutting measure or stupid national pride BS, and think it'll only harm them and the sport in NZ long term...

 

[parrawentyfan]

Looking into the very distant future here (50+ years which is what actual long term strategy should be about) there is obviously potential for several first tier sides to complement the Warriors. If we get to say 4 or 5 of these bids in a conference system, there should be serious consideration to splittig these teams off to form the basis of a NZ/Pacific comp inclusive of a couple of PI teams.

I would see 3 strong Pacific leagues.
- 2x NRL Conferences to cater for growth in Australia
- 1x PRL involving NZ/PI

Baby steps of course and very long term but we need to dream big and take it to RU in these places. A proper NZ National comp at a lower tier would be a step in the right direction.

 

[Springs09]

Why knee cap player development and junior development not just in the short term but forever, unless there is a truly dramatic change in the landscape in NZ they are never going to be able to muster the same amount of interest in RL as Australia and their local leagues will never be able to match the standard of Australia, why not benefit from that higher standard when it is literally on your doorstep and why is it bad thing that they do tack themselves onto Australian comps?

.

So player/junior development is one team?

Rugby League in NZ is not just the Warriors and the Kiwis. The major goal is not the Warriors or the Kiwis staying competitive, it's to get as many players as possible playing RL in NZ. This isn't going to happen when all the players just go play in Australian systems. It's important to get quality competition NZ-wide, even if it is not as high quality as Australian reserve grade or U20s. If we don't, where are all these juniors that Auckland U20s want going to come from? Just pick them out of Union and Touch?

This isn't just Warriors juniors playing in Australian systems. My Group 20 club has had about 15 kiwis come over in the last 5 years. They've been great blokes but why are they coming to country NSW to play footy? Because country NSW comps are better quality and have more money than most comps in NZ.

 

[deal.with.it]

The Auckland comp is fairly strong and watchable on TV. If you dispersed the NSW Cup and U20s team among all the teams you’d have a fantastic product.
Unfortunately, this doesn’t help the NZRL vs ARL situation.

 

[IntRLEnthusiast]

I do like the idea of trying to improve the local domestic scene. My thoughts are give this a try and there is always the option to go back to the NSW under 20's comp down the track if it doesn't work. A Semi pro comp that gets some TV airtime in NZ may well be a good step forward into growing the Game in NZ overall. I would think though that starting that comp in Auckland and Hamilton might be the best way to start and then slowly build it to wider areas from there.

 

[adamkungl]

A lot of the criticism seems to be based around the belief that a half-decent semi-pro comp in NZ is basically impossible to achieve.
Seems like a defeatist attitude to me. No one in Aus has any respect for NSW Cup but no fans in NZ seems to think they can put together 6 NSW Cup quality sides.

 

[IntRLEnthusiast]

Yep and if they can put together 6 decent sides and have a bunch of under 20's playing against quality mens sides then it could be really good for their development. It may though end up being more about being able to attract quality coaches and a good business plan than it is about if there is the talent around to create a solid comp.

 

[latingringo101]

I'm on the Fence with this, half of me thinks it will help improve the local RL competition in NZ and the other thinks less quality NZ teens will be produced by NZRL.

Either way it's a historical problem since the inception of the Warriors and something has to be done to stop the mass migration of Juniors to Oz