Automation and stuff

Discussion in 'Four Corners' started by Pete Cash, Jun 1, 2016.

  1. Pete Cash

    Pete Cash Immortal

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2007
    Messages:
    47,472
    Likes Received:
    4,942
    I quite like the topic of automation and tend to spew it all over the forums quite randomly so I have decided to make a thread on the topic.

    FAQ

    What the heck is automation.


    Most people think of automation as massive robot arms making cars but there is more to it. That is why I called the thread automation and stuff. While a calculator for example isnt strictly an example of "automation" its an example of humans being very good at coming up with labour saving devices. So basically this thread will be a catch all for the advancement in human laziness.

    Basically when you boil it down to brass tacks automation is completing tasks with minimum or no human input.

    I have heard that computers are coming from my job...how true is this. Should I be scared

    Maybe ?

    Lots of jobs in "theory" can be automated over the coming decades. One would have to think that a lot of service industry jobs are in trouble.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVlhMGQgDkY

    Here is a cute robot stacking shelves. Obviously its quite an early model but its pretty good. It can even walk to work in the snow !

    Over the coming 20 years or so lots of jobs face automation not complete automation at first but there will be jobs lost because 1 dude looking after a bunch of robots is more "efficient" than a full workforce.

    Automated driving is an interesting one. The major autos are claiming that there will be self driving cars on the market by 2020 but that is probably just bravado. What is clear though is that its not THAT far away and its something car manufacturers are pouring a lot of money in.

    What is interesting about this area is that there will be a lot of social kickback because some people like to drive. I think it will be a country by country thing for a bit based on societal attitudes to driving. Japan wants self driving cars by the 2020 olympics for example.

    Wont society meltdown without people being able to work !!!

    Maybe, maybe not

    We are talking about quite a time period here although it wouldnt take much unemployment to cause issues in the economy. The great depression for example in the united states was around 25 percent.

    It would certainly be a societal change and is probably one of the biggest issues automation faces.

    Here is an interesting video

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMF-Z74C1QE
     
  2. Pete Cash

    Pete Cash Immortal

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2007
    Messages:
    47,472
    Likes Received:
    4,942
    If people cant be arsed clicking on the Andrew McAfee video I posted I will sum it up.

    The biggest advancements in population and standards of living came out of the industrial revolution where we overcome the limits of our muscles. This is a fact. Very little happened for thousands of years until that point when standard of living literally exploded.

    We are now trying to overcome the limits of our individual brain.
     
  3. 2_Smoking_Guns

    2_Smoking_Guns First Grade

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2011
    Messages:
    7,757
    Likes Received:
    1,082
    Until very recently and over many years I worked pretty closely with the drive to automation on Rio Tinto iron ore mine sites, and to a lesser degree at FMG's Solomon mine. At this stage it's mainly the dump trucks that are driverless but it won't be long until the dozers, graders and wheel loaders are also automated. This won't apply to all though as there will still be those jobs where decisions will need to be made in real time by actual observations.

    The research, development and testing stages of this were massive and with many pitfalls, some because of too much precision. One of the issues we had to deal with often though was sabotage. The operators would literally bash the shit out of some of the equipment. We had one case where the operator reported that the GPS system wasn't working. When we removed the 8 bolts holding the lid to the cabinet in place and looked inside it was quite obvious that the communications hub had been bashed repeatedly with a ball peen hammer. Other times screens had to be replaced because perfect impressions of fists were found in the screen glass. Their fears were founded though. When FMG sacked 800 people from Solomon a couple of years ago the vast majority were truck drivers.
     
  4. Generalzod

    Generalzod Coach

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2003
    Messages:
    13,535
    Likes Received:
    1,835

    Well years ago the word sabotage comes from the French, People placed their wooden shoes called Sabots to stop the machines from working.
     
  5. B-dos

    B-dos Referee

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2004
    Messages:
    28,165
    Likes Received:
    717
    humans will adapt over time

    as i said in the other thread, technology leads the way, policy follows

    if we approach the time where we are f**king up our entire society because human beings have nothing left to do, we will adapt either in terms of the 'jobs' we can do, or through policy to ensure economics can still exist

    perhaps people will just invest in a robot and be paid for the work as a rental... people will repair robots, clean robots, etc etc etc

    and while many jobs can be automated, many probably cant really.

    one only needs to look at the hatred everyone has when dealing with a robon on a telephone line to see that human beings want to interact with human beings
     
  6. chigurh

    chigurh Guest

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2010
    Messages:
    3,958
    Likes Received:
    500
    Yeah it's interesting. Wendy's said recently they will look to replace workers with robots and self-serve kiosks in response to rising wages and lack of quality workers.
     
  7. Surely

    Surely Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2004
    Messages:
    63,234
    Likes Received:
    2,793
    Robojudge will be good , guilty look up crime penalty apply penalty and tasering.
     
  8. Generalzod

    Generalzod Coach

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2003
    Messages:
    13,535
    Likes Received:
    1,835

    Kinda like Minority report..
     
  9. Pete Cash

    Pete Cash Immortal

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2007
    Messages:
    47,472
    Likes Received:
    4,942
    That is another interesting issue you have hit on b dos. People might not like yelling at a robot at McDonald's even if the robot does a perfect job.

    Here is an interesting article

    http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/artificial-intelligence/children-beating-up-robot

    Basically researches let a robot roam about in a shopping centre in japan. Most adults interacted with it normally, getting out of its way when asked. Some adults seemed to go out of their way to interact with it. Like moved into its path on purpose just so it would interact with them but let's put that down to curiosity

    A group of kids though bullied the robot quite badly.

    To the point that the researchers introduced a bullying algorithm where the robot now will try to avoid children and will run towards adults if chased by a kid.

    What is interesting though is how the kids see the robot
    From the article

    n a second paper, “Why Do Children Abuse Robots?,” based on the same Japanese mall experiment, the researchers interviewed the abusive children about their behavior. When questioned, 74 percent of the kids described the robot as “human-like” and only 13 percent as “machine-like.” Half of them said that they believed that their behavior was “stressful or painful” for the robot.

    So basically, most of these kids perceive the robot they’re abusing as lifelike, and then just go ahead and abuse it anyway. While that’s a little disturbing, it appears to be in line with some child psychology research on animal abuse. Empathy for other entities may be something we learn as we age. And as for grown ups? It looks like adults are reluctant to abuse robots that respond in a lifelike way, and empathic adults even more so.
     
  10. Pete Cash

    Pete Cash Immortal

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2007
    Messages:
    47,472
    Likes Received:
    4,942
    That is an area that could probably be automated now tbh.

    Areas like that or even the police force (robocop lol) would have interesting ethical questions imo. A fully functioning robot police forde would be many, many decades away but i could certainly see like a drone or something patrolling crime hotspots.

    That would allow the police the ability to respond to crimes quicker.

    Edit

    Even attach a taser to the drone lol

    Edit

    Alien talking about robocops got me a googling

    https://www.technocracy.news/index.php/2016/01/01/crime-fighting-robots-will-hit-the-streets-soon/

    Its more like robot security guards tbh but they look adorable
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
  11. Surely

    Surely Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2004
    Messages:
    63,234
    Likes Received:
    2,793


    Equip them with a Taser and they'll only kick it once
     
  12. Surely

    Surely Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2004
    Messages:
    63,234
    Likes Received:
    2,793
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    The puture
     
  13. Pete Cash

    Pete Cash Immortal

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2007
    Messages:
    47,472
    Likes Received:
    4,942
    That level of automation is like an absurdly long way off but it does raise an interesting question. In WALL-E they had reached a post scarcity society with full automation for everything.

    Obviously a bunch of fatties driving around in hoverscooters is a distinct possibility. Another one would be the opposite. People who use their free time to get fitter. Obviously there would be plenty of people doing f**k all but if I had more hours a day I would certainly hit the gym harder. I miss a lot of days because of time poverty.
     
  14. reanimate

    reanimate Juniors

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,358
    Likes Received:
    157
    Shave the world population in half (at a minimum) and a highly automated future would be great. There's too many people to live contented in an automated world.
     
  15. _snafu_

    _snafu_ Referee

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2008
    Messages:
    22,554
    Likes Received:
    2,565
    Isn't that the raison d'etre of trade unions?
     
  16. Surely

    Surely Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2004
    Messages:
    63,234
    Likes Received:
    2,793

    Do you work a lot of overtime or have a long commute ?
     
  17. cerberus

    cerberus First Grade

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    7,070
    Likes Received:
    113
    do any of you actual understand automation ?
    plc's , scada , servo's, dcs

    [​IMG]

    do you understand what i've displayed ?
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
  18. cerberus

    cerberus First Grade

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    7,070
    Likes Received:
    113
    Funny started looking for an industrial eleco on the coast.
    Not a bite ,. Oneday the lights will go out and they won't come back on .

    Ooh the beloved country
     
  19. The Charlatan

    The Charlatan Coach

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    10,091
    Likes Received:
    2,452
    If we're both on the same page, it's a simple start/stop circuit.

    A is on, B is off, C is your contact relay which holds in when A is enacted and allows the device C output to turn the device on.

    I use proprietary built control systems with a lot of the algorithms already built into the system fairly frequently, don't deal with PLC's too much. The older equipment that gets around still has a lot of Allen Bradley gear getting around.
     
  20. cerberus

    cerberus First Grade

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    7,070
    Likes Received:
    113
    Indeed , full marks . AB strech back along time .
    I put in ab2 , 5 slc 100 , 500
    I have mostly S7 siemens and citec scada nows days . But there is still some old S5
    Dinosaurs out back.
    You must be working with equipment running identical processes ?
    I guess a little bit smarter than robby the robot.
     

Share This Page