Away jersey

[Follow Me Up To Carlton]

lol some big calls lads.

To bad we knocked you flat on your arse in the semi, now we'll never know.

 

[luther]

My apology Man Of Steel, the ref was Greg McCallum: that big right arm waving forward pass again and again as I sat relieved in line with the St George 20...whew!!

Not that it helped hey! sic: 28-6 the next week

Let's not forget that Illawarra had the dragons on toast in the major preliminary semi two weeks before.

Anyway....

hey, wouldn't mind the joint venture just being called the 'Steel Dragons'

 

[Man_of_Steel_1982]

Yes, as I said, the same year Illawarra where slated to enter the comp, 1967.

This is correct. The Sharks actually got the nod over Illawarra. IMO, a short sighted decision from the NSWRL.

Illawarra were blocked by the CRL, the NSWRL were very keen to have us.

How do you know that?

The same thing happened in the early 50s.

Can you elaborate? What happened in the early 50s?

The earliest was 1939 and it seemed like it might of got off the ground, except for some Queer Loony in Europe who decided to start WWII.

I think you're being harsh on the folks from Versailles... unless you're referring to some other bunch of 'born to rule' Nazis.... were the French gay?

But again, I'd like to know where you get this information from. What are the details of Illawarra's 1939 push for the Sydney comp?

Illawarra (or Southern Division in the 50s and 60s) have an outstanding record against the touring Lions teams,

You mean 1940s and 1950s. And one match was against the Lions while the other was against England.
A solid effort and part of a proud history.

with all the talent from the area, they would of been playing for the Illawarra NSWRL side if the CRL didn't continually stand in the way.

:?: Again, please elaborate as to where you heard this.

It took St.George over 2 decades to win a premiership. It's unfair to judge the Steelers on their 17 seasons, most of which was taken up by either the tough times of trying to get established during a recession, or the mess that was Super League.

And there wasn't hard times in the 20s, 30s, and 40s?

This is purely academic.
I can illustrate with the following brief history:
In the 20 years (1921-1941) St George finished in the top four on 11 occasions. They were runners up in 1927 after just 7 seasons.
They were minor premiers in 1928... a title that would have earned them the premiership in earlier seasons.
In 1930 they won the Final! But under a new (newer) system had to play against the minor premiers, Wests, in a grand final. The year before, Saints would have won the premiership.
In 1933, Saints were runners up again.
In 1940, they were club champions and in in 1941, they were premiers.

It took 20 years of disappointment, concerted effort, and 'being robbed' before Saints finally snared the big one.
In my humble opinion, the Steelers struggled to get within range.

The Steelers were robbed in 92. The only time to look at them without exterior-influences (setting up during a recession, in the Winfield era and then Super League) is the early 90s, where Illawarra consistently finished in the top half of the comp, winning the 92 Tooheys challenge, hardly losing at home as well as being robbed in 92 GF qualifier.

Regarding the CRL things... Its fact Willow.
I've looked through the book "13 years of Steel" by David Middleton (which includes a comprehensive history of Rugby League in the Illawarra from 1910 - from which the Steelers foundations were built on) and I've just noticed there was also contemplation of joining the NSWRL in 1946 just after Port Kembla won it's 6th straight premiership but with Parramatta and Manly submissions already ahead they decided to wait and continue planning...

It started with the Illawarra Leagues Club, the 2nd oldest leagues club in the World (not the Steelers Club). It comfortably bankrolled Dudley Locke's plan to attract top sportsmen to the Illawarra with his "International Importation Scheme" which would give the Illawarra plenty of attention and ultimately get Illawarra into the NSWRL. It all came to a head when Clive Churchill signed to play in the Wollongong comp in 1953 but then backed away and went to Souths - almost resulting in a court case (by today's standards, it would of gone to court).

Locke's plan was to get Illawarra (and possibly Newcastle as well for even number of teams) into the NSWRL but the CRL "were unwilling to relinquish two of their major strongholds to the city" (p.28 )

It all flared up again in the 60s.

In July, 1964, Western Suburbs and an Illawarra representitave side played in a challenge match at Wollongong Showground. Three junior teams also met Sydney combinations, with an under-21 outfit, comprising names such as Bob Fulton, Peter Peters and Alan Maddalena up against President's Cup finalists Balmain.

On one memorable afternoon, Illawarra won all four games. In the main game, West, Sydney grand finalists in 1961-62-63, were swept aside with a 17-10 victory, and comments by the Sydney club's secretary, Lou Moses, after the match stirred the pot once again.

"Years ago I spoke against the admittance of an Illawarra team in the Sydney competition," Moses said. "Frankly I thought Illawarra might take the premiership to the country. I am now plugging for you to join the NSWRL. While you still could embarrass many Sydney clubs, your brand of football is too good not to be shared by the people of Sydney."

Less than two weeks later the IRL decided to apply for inclusion in the 1965 competition. The predictable CRL opposition to the move surfaced soon after the decision.

In breif, the CRL used it constitution to block Illawarra from joining in 1965 and then again in 1966, which brought Illawarra blood "to boiling point". This then resulted in the eventual move to grant Illawarra Divisional status, as a way of soothing the Illawarrian's who were contemplating breaking away (which was obviously a big deal in those days, compare this to the way Super League era changed league administration, by today's standards, people would break away as soon as things don't go their way).

The 70s saw poker machines and a financial windfall for Leagues Clubs, with many Illawarra clubs spending in excess of $100,000 on player payments. It was this atmosphere that led to the push in the late 70s that saw the Steelers enter in 1982. Unfortunately Recession, and just after the Steelers were set and looking good (on and off the field) Super League put an end to it all.

On the 13th of December 1980, the NSWRL delegates voted unanimously to admit the Steelers as the 13th team (regardless of whether another club could be found) with only the 4 CRL delegates voting against. The vote was 38-4.

In brief if the CRL weren't a bunch of A-oles, Illawarra would of been in decades ago and been able to let the leagues club grow (which was wealthy) and the club with it's great talent would of been a certain success. The 80s were simply too late, meaning it was going to take a long time, which it did, and after finally getting on their feet by the 90s, Super League came along a few years later and ended it.

Perhaps the most interesting point of all this is that Cronulla probably wouldn't of existed if Illawarra got in first. Something which would of been good for St.George as well. Illawarra would of been more successful than Cronulla as well, as they didn't have the a rich junior base (in the days when you played for the local club), basically they only had half of old St.George territory.

 

[God-King Dean]

c) The Illawarra forms half of the Joint Venture. Why is it that many people on this forum are against recognition of this fact? No-one has ever said lets get rid of the red V, what is the problem with wering the scarlet and white as an away Jersey to give some recognition to the Illawarra and its supporters which for half of the joint venture?



quote]

It's not about recognition. For me it's about people accepting that we are ONE club not two. The Red V jersey was selected as St.George Illawarra's. The Steelers jersey was not.

My point is the jersey we have now is St.George Illawarra's jersey NOT St.George's. Having the Steelers jersey is again giving the idea to everyone that St.George Illawarra is 2 teams, instead of one

Is everyone getting what I am saying?

 

[S2H]

The argument is not about getting rid of our main strip the red V. It is about our away jersey. My argument is that as the Illawarra make up half the joint venture why not use the Scarlet and White Jersey which means alot to alot of players and fans who grew up in the Illawarra region as opposed to the Bandages which in my opinion looks terrible.

If they were going to change the away jersey I believe this is the way they should go.

 

[Follow Me Up To Carlton]

Or you could go it alone and pay your own way.

 

[God-King Dean]

I still think it'd cause conflict & keep to impression of 2 seperate clubs. The uniform selected at the start of the merger was the St.George jersey & the rest Illawarra & they should stick to that.

One would also argue if that if they wore the Steelers jersey as an away jersey, the uniform would be completely Illawarra with the socks & shorts combining with the Steeler jersey

 

[Southernsaint]

Or you could go it alone and pay your own way.

LOL - Gold!!

I reckon they could have a big function at Steelers Leagues and then...oh wait, St George own it!!

 

[Southernsaint]

The argument is not about getting rid of our main strip the red V. It is about our away jersey. My argument is that as the Illawarra make up half the joint venture why not use the Scarlet and White Jersey which means alot to alot of players and fans who grew up in the Illawarra region as opposed to the Bandages which in my opinion looks terrible.

If they were going to change the away jersey I believe this is the way they should go.

Oi, we subsidise you Pikeys so you get to see NRL football 7 times a year. Show some gratitude.

Perish the thought that we ever have an influx of Queenslanders, Aboriginals or C*nterbury juniors playing for the Saints. We'd have to change the away strip to Maroon; Black, yellow & red; and blue & white, respectively to reflect the demographics of the playing staff :roll:

The Blood & Bandages has some history. The Illawarra Sheilas jersey has the Tooheys Challenge.

 

[drake]

Sorry Ben, the Blood and Bandages is the Where's Wally jersey. I agree it's historical, but so is riding horses to get from A to B. I liked it when our home and away jersey were the same.
What abot the Sheilas jersey with the Saints shorts and socks. ;-)
Denis could blame a loss on the jersey and credit a win to the socks!

The thing is that it is only a hardcore minority that gives a shit.

 

[Red Bear]

Why is the not there in your sig now, or was it always there SS?

 

[_Johnsy]

I think it is a must, the steelers jersey as the away strip.

 

[DRRRAGONS]

agreed

 

[Anonymous]

ah, I remember you. The hit and run expert.

Willow you complete tosser!
Yeah you know what i'm talking about, I can't believe you did that you bastard!

:lol:

 

[Ribs]

As a third generation Saints fan, Im still leaning towards the Steelers jumper with Saints shorts and socks as our alternate.

The where's Wally doesnt inspire me at all and just doesnt look intimidating. Reminds of a bunch of candy canes....

 

[dimitri]

i can see arguments either way

the blood and bandages is a very historic jersey

 

[God-King Dean]

The where's Wally doesnt inspire me at all and just doesnt look intimidating. Reminds of a bunch of candy canes....

Perhaps. But I wouldn't call Bulldogs 70th anniversery jersey intimidating either, but they all seem to love it.

Maybe we should give the blood & bandages a more 'olden 40's' look, so people can trace it back in our history

 

[Gas Panic!]

The thing that interests me is that we all agree the team is in fact not called the Steelers anymore.

When the 'old steelers' jumper was worn last year I was surrounded by people chanting 'Steelers! Steelers!'. That to me is an absolute disgrace.

A revamped blood and bandages, ala the Dogs heritage jumper, is the way to go.

 

[Jamesy]

I was really for the steelers jersey as our away strip, but it just occurred to me, why don't we have the bulldogs 70 yera jersey, but in red and white, with black shorts and candy cane socks???? i reckon dat'd look alright.

 

[Anonymous]

The Steelers were robbed in 92. The only time to look at them without exterior-influences (setting up during a recession, in the Winfield era and then Super League) is the early 90s, where Illawarra consistently finished in the top half of the comp, winning the 92 Tooheys challenge, hardly losing at home as well as being robbed in 92 GF qualifier.

I knew I read this somewhere before and here it is. Are you and Berkeley_Eagle sharing the same digs?
From your 'poll' in the NRL section:

Also during that period, Illawarra consistently finished in the top half of the ladder (16 teams), better than today’s top eight.

He seems to mimmick a lot of your thoughts: http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/viewtopic.php?t=44520&start=70

I have already debunked the 'recession' excuse. As well, I have found that there little or no substance to attempts at equivalence and that the 'Dragons took 20 years to win a premiership'.
Quite clearly the Dragons had a very solid and often impressive record in their early years when compared to the Steelers. And they did so during the Great Depression.

Now I read from you: "the early 90s, where Illawarra consistently finished in the top half of the comp"
You mean for 3 years? How is that consistent?
1982: 13th (out of 14)
1983: 12th (out of 14)
1984: 8th (out of 13)
1985: 13th (out of 13)
1986: 13th (out of 13)
1987: 11th (out of 13)
1988: 13th (out of 16)
1989: 16th (out of 16)
1990: 9th (out of 16)
1991: 8th (out of 16)
1992: 3rd (out of 16)
1993: 7th (out of 16)
1994: 6th (out of 16)
1995: 12th (out of 20)
1996: 14th (out of 20)
1997: 6th (out of 12)
1998: 12th (out of 20)

I have no issue debating this and I support the Illawarra contribution to the Dragons, but let's aim at sticking to the facts as much as possible.
This business of twisting figures to suit your agenda is becoming a tad tedious.

btw, thanks for the background to the CRL's involvement in holding Illawarra out of the NSWRL's expansion. Very interesting and enlightening.