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Beginners Guide to Strength training

Cliffhanger

Coach
Messages
15,228
Think we need a thread like this as a sticky. I have just covered how people should train in terms of sessions, loads and sets. I have not gone into specific weight training workouts. I suggest people post links to some youtube clips so proper technique is displayed.

Regardless of your sport you need to do maximal strength sessions, sustained strength sessions, power strength and hypertrophy or muscle growth.

Obviously you cannot do all in the same session, so work out a routine.

You want to start with muscle growth, so find out your maximum for 1-RPM is and then work with 60-80 per cent of that, you want to do 8-15 reps each set for 3 to 5 sets with 1-2 mins rests in between sets.

For power, you want to pick a load you can lift 15 times, your sets should consist of 6 reps and to rest under 3 mins between sets.

For max strength, 3-5 sets, the weight has to be more than 85 per cent of your max RPM. Less than six reps and under three mins rest. This workout should be at a high intensity.

For endurance, these workouts have to be done quickly and explosively, you want a load you can lift at least 20 times. You will be doing 20-30 reps per sets, for 3-5 sets with only a 1 minute rest in between.

Never train any muscle more than three times a week.
 

abpanther

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,784
Good stuff Cliffy

So does the 5x5 Stronglifts workout sit under the 'max strength' workout?

The problem with these distinctions is that it assumes all these goals are mutually exclusive, I would think even if you are training for 'power' or 'max strength' you would still get muscle growth wouldn't you?
 

Cliffhanger

Coach
Messages
15,228
Yes and no, with hypertrophy, max strength will cause muscle growth but the rest won't you. Have to understand what I mean by growth, I am talking about the actual architecture of the muscle cell and not just your ability to generate force.

With maximal strength and power they are very different abilities. Maximal strength is the production of high force over an unlimited amount of time. Power is explosive strength so you have to produce it quickly. Of course maximal strength training will help you in you power strength training and vice versa, but the gains will not be the same.


Strong lifts is max strength. Because you are producing high forces over an unlimited ammount of time and you're lifting over 85 per cent of 1rpm.
 

abpanther

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,784
I would like some advice regarding the 5x5 Stronglifts program.

I have been doing it since February now and have made some great progress. I just wonder though at what point should I consider scaling back how much squats I do? Reason I ask is that I'm reaching the 100kg stage on my squats and I'm starting to get to the point where I feel my body is not fully recuperated in time for the next workout. For example I did squats on Monday morning, my glutes were still sore this morning when I did them again, I pumped it out ok but I figure it's something worth thinking about.

For those who have done the program, what are your thoughts?

Thanks
 

Cliffhanger

Coach
Messages
15,228
You have to listen to your body, if it's not recovering properly you should probably cut down to two sessions a week. As long as you're doing 1 session a week you won't go backwards and at least two will ensure you're still making decent gains.

Having enough recovery time is vital. The way we develop strength is basically through overcompensation after being exposed to a stressor, if this stressor doesn't kills us after an initial period of fatigue, we recover and then as a result our bodies over compensate in order to be better equipped to handle this stressor in the future. Without adequate recovery time this overcompensation does not take place and we start to go backwards. On the flip side, if the stimulus is not able to stress our muscles because the load is either too light or we're going to slow then the over compensation also will not occur.
 

Snoochies

First Grade
Messages
5,590
I would like some advice regarding the 5x5 Stronglifts program.

I have been doing it since February now and have made some great progress. I just wonder though at what point should I consider scaling back how much squats I do? Reason I ask is that I'm reaching the 100kg stage on my squats and I'm starting to get to the point where I feel my body is not fully recuperated in time for the next workout. For example I did squats on Monday morning, my glutes were still sore this morning when I did them again, I pumped it out ok but I figure it's something worth thinking about.

For those who have done the program, what are your thoughts?

Thanks


I'm doing it too and have found the same problem and am cutting back to 2 times per week. I had my first fail on my squats @155kg yesterday and was benching 97.5kg last week but had no hope at all this week.

Cliffy, what would be the reason one week it seems like you can lift a mountain and the next week not so much. Last week I squated 152.5kg comfortably but when I tried 155 this week I had no chance. Same with the bench, why would I go backwards so quickly?

Edit: I just read the rest of Cliffys post which answered my question :)
 

Cliffhanger

Coach
Messages
15,228
It could also come down to what you're eating are you eating at least an hour before your session? Also are you having some carbs?

To use maximal power your body uses its phosphocreatine system, if you're just burning stored fats and proteins then the power won't be the same.

In order to synthesise ATP quick enough to give you that burst of power to lift that weight, your body needs to be using glucose.
 

abpanther

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,784
Some interesting stuff in here.

Cliffy, I train in the morning and I essentially scoff down a banana and head to the gym, I then eat afterwards along with a protein shake. Could that be an issue?

My diet is generally low in carbs, high in protein. As a result I've lost about 8-9kgs since I started, maybe I need to start eating more.

Snoochies, I just wonder at what point do you veer off the Stronglifts program (once you feel you have developed a good level of core strength) and then look to maybe change things up to continue progress? Or is it unrealistic to expect much progress once you reach a certain stage?

Also wondering what changes you then have to make, maybe only doing deadlifts, squats, etc just once a week.

Not sure really.
 

Cliffhanger

Coach
Messages
15,228
Yeah, go for 40-40-20 carbs, protein, fat and unless you're trying to lose fat, you need to fuel up a lot more before your session.

If you were running a fasted state it wouldn't be such a problem as your running for a long time you're looking to rely on aerobic gylcolosis after the first couple of minutes. However when you're doing maximal strength lifts you're looking for short extremely powerful bursts of energy so you can perform each rep.
 

Snoochies

First Grade
Messages
5,590
Yeah, go for 40-40-20 carbs, protein, fat and unless you're trying to lose fat, you need to fuel up a lot more before your session.

If you were running a fasted state it wouldn't be such a problem as your running for a long time you're looking to rely on aerobic gylcolosis after the first couple of minutes. However when you're doing maximal strength lifts you're looking for short extremely powerful bursts of energy so you can perform each rep.


Thats the way I have started eating for about a month now and at the moment I am only having a banana before my workout wether it be weights or running. I guess on weight training days I eat the carbs before hand.
 

abpanther

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,784
Yeah, go for 40-40-20 carbs, protein, fat and unless you're trying to lose fat, you need to fuel up a lot more before your session.

If you were running a fasted state it wouldn't be such a problem as your running for a long time you're looking to rely on aerobic gylcolosis after the first couple of minutes. However when you're doing maximal strength lifts you're looking for short extremely powerful bursts of energy so you can perform each rep.

So are you suggesting I need to eat more at 6am before I go to the gym?

What would be a better quick meal before the gym?
 

abpanther

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,784
Thats the way I have started eating for about a month now and at the moment I am only having a banana before my workout wether it be weights or running. I guess on weight training days I eat the carbs before hand.

So are you thinking about changing your routine up entirely or just having a break?

Just wondering how have you been managing your overhead press? I mean I've already hit a wall with that and I figure it will progress very slowly (if at all) for the next 6 months.
 

Snoochies

First Grade
Messages
5,590
So are you thinking about changing your routine up entirely or just having a break?

Just wondering how have you been managing your overhead press? I mean I've already hit a wall with that and I figure it will progress very slowly (if at all) for the next 6 months.

I'm actually training for toughmudder so I have to change the routine up somewhat anyway but have planned to keep doing the stronglifts 2 days a week instead.

I got a mate doing it with me and we've both plateued on the overhead press as well. Some days we get better then we have to drop back again.
But as Cliffy said, maybe a meal beforehand will be the secret so will give that a crack and if I can't move forward will do as the program says, drop 10% and work your way back up. Then the next stage is the Madcow program I think.
 

abpanther

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,784
I'm actually training for toughmudder so I have to change the routine up somewhat anyway but have planned to keep doing the stronglifts 2 days a week instead.

I got a mate doing it with me and we've both plateued on the overhead press as well. Some days we get better then we have to drop back again.
But as Cliffy said, maybe a meal beforehand will be the secret so will give that a crack and if I can't move forward will do as the program says, drop 10% and work your way back up. Then the next stage is the Madcow program I think.

Yeah it certainly seems logical to move it to 2 days a week once you hit a plateau, I will probably do the same.

Regarding the deloads, etc, the issue is once you've done that a few times, aren't you then supposed to go to 3x5 and then 1x5? Not sure what happens after that as I'm no where near that stage yet.

Maybe if you go 2 days a week it frees up the other day to change things up a little
 

Snoochies

First Grade
Messages
5,590
Yeah it certainly seems logical to move it to 2 days a week once you hit a plateau, I will probably do the same.

Regarding the deloads, etc, the issue is once you've done that a few times, aren't you then supposed to go to 3x5 and then 1x5? Not sure what happens after that as I'm no where near that stage yet.

Maybe if you go 2 days a week it frees up the other day to change things up a little


Pretty sure that is the mad cow program which is still done over 3 days.

Edit: Seems you drop to 3x5, the 1x5 and then madcow.

http://stronglifts.com/madcow-5x5-training-programs/
 
Last edited:

Cliffhanger

Coach
Messages
15,228
So are you suggesting I need to eat more at 6am before I go to the gym?

What would be a better quick meal before the gym?

Don't stop having the banana, just have some Apple Juice (fresh not reconstituted the Nudie Juice Nothing but apples is a good one) or just have some yoghurt and oats with the banana.


Just be careful with drinking juice, never drink more than about 250 mls. When you juice fruit it loses all its dietary fibre.
 

Canucks

Juniors
Messages
168
I've been told that with Stronglifts once you hit bodyweight with the squat you can revert back to squatting every second session or 2 of 3....
 

simostorm

Bench
Messages
4,511
Think we need a thread like this as a sticky. I have just covered how people should train in terms of sessions, loads and sets. I have not gone into specific weight training workouts. I suggest people post links to some youtube clips so proper technique is displayed.

Regardless of your sport you need to do maximal strength sessions, sustained strength sessions, power strength and hypertrophy or muscle growth.

Obviously you cannot do all in the same session, so work out a routine.

You want to start with muscle growth, so find out your maximum for 1-RPM is and then work with 60-80 per cent of that, you want to do 8-15 reps each set for 3 to 5 sets with 1-2 mins rests in between sets.

For power, you want to pick a load you can lift 15 times, your sets should consist of 6 reps and to rest under 3 mins between sets.

For max strength, 3-5 sets, the weight has to be more than 85 per cent of your max RPM. Less than six reps and under three mins rest. This workout should be at a high intensity.

For endurance, these workouts have to be done quickly and explosively, you want a load you can lift at least 20 times. You will be doing 20-30 reps per sets, for 3-5 sets with only a 1 minute rest in between.

Never train any muscle more than three times a week.

i cant find this thread??
 

Pete Cash

Post Whore
Messages
61,832
Unless you are taking powerful steroids stronglifts is going to hit a wall eventually. It is a great way of getting into weight lifting and just getting used to compound lifts is vital for any kind of real gains in whatever department a person is seeking but squatting 3 times a week is going to be difficult to maintain at the higher end of the weight department.

Like the biggest worry about good beginner programmes is they become a bit of a mantra STRONGLIFTS, STRONGLIFTS but there are certainly other programmes out there. If you want to gain strength once you have hit the wall in stronglifts ( you need to have some standards of strength) then using a modified westside programme or digging up an Eastern European style strongman programme can certainly add some results.

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/modified-westside-barbell-strength-workout.html here is a westside programme that is to be done over 8 weeks. Dave Tate has a more specific one that modifies every week but its a bit trickier imo plus I can't find it online atm :p

wendlers 5/3/1 is another good option http://www.muscleandstrength.com/wo...t-jim-wendlers-5-3-1-powerlifting-system.html

At the moment I am eating at a calorie deficit so I can't really push myself too hard in the ole strength department so I am doing lighter weight with higher reps while I cut a bit of fat but if you want to gain strength you really do need to eat lots and lots.
 

simostorm

Bench
Messages
4,511
I havnt looked over much of the stronglift programs.. but what ive seen looks a little similar to perhaps a bill starr routine.. im not to sure about maxing squats 3 times a week but Bill Starrs programs uses a Heavy / Light / Medium system which works well..
 

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