Bellamy

[ouryear]

What the heck are you smoking? Seriously he is the best coach of the modern era. Harry Bath has similar qualities.

Ouryear please take another puff it will help you

That's ok, you can have that opinion, that's why we are all different.

Like this thread had said by some, he has coached only one team, caught out massively cheating for years, has lost 13 final series. Won 2

If he ever decides to coach another nrl team to success, sure he will be considered great by more people...If he is successful.

A one club coach with unforgivable rorting, well I say he has had it much easier than the average schmuck.

I think he is good.

But like some others think as well, not great.

 

[MrDragon007]

I guess so, I was just surprised how poorly they have performed once they were in the finals. Having a super coach get them there, I was expecting to see far less final series losses.

Versus Bennetts record of 7 or 8 grand final wins.

With the QLD SOO numbers 1, 7 and 9 and many other SOO players in the team, if I was a fan, and having made the finals, I would not be happy with 2 Wins and 13 losses.

Then finding out we spent more than.one million extra dollars.....well I would be very pissed with that finals record.

You state Bellamey had the QLD 1-7-9 to help him win his premierships, in Bennetts Premierships (excluding 2010) How many SOO players filled his team?
I assure you alot more then just 3.
Not having a dig at you but i just cant comprehend how you can call making the semis 13 years straight, winning 4 premierships (taken off them yes, but the fans still got to celebrate them when they won them), 7 grand final appearances in total in 13 years, how can you call that a poor coach?
we have made the semis once in 6 or 7 years, mate, its laughable to even think of saying poor coach and Bellamy in the same sentence.
Your entittled to your opinion, but i strongly disagree with your take on this.

 

[Brutalitops]

Whether they were stripped or not, if you aren't going to count the grand final victories of 07 and 09 as wins, then you can't really count them as losses either. In statistics, this is something that would simply be etched from the equation. So 2/11 would be more accurate.

Not defending them, but if they can't claim them as wins, the same is true for anyone claiming them as losses.

 

[AyiosYiorgos]

fair point you make @ouryear BUT
Who is a better coach in the NRL? and by how much are they better? and where do you rank Bellamy against the current coach's and against all coach's past/present?

 

[BennyV]

That's ok, you can have that opinion, that's why we are all different.

Like this thread had said by some, he has coached only one team, caught out massively cheating for years, has lost 13 final series. Won 2

If he ever decides to coach another nrl team to success, sure he will be considered great by more people...If he is successful.

A one club coach with unforgivable rorting, well I say he has had it much easier than the average schmuck.

I think he is good.

But like some others think as well, not great.

Some? You are the only person pedalling the claim that Bellamy isn't a great coach!! Literally no one has agreed with your stance.

Everyone sees this thread for what it is (sour grapes, much like your thread that admits sour grapes towards Storm in the title) and recognises Bellamy for what he is (one of the 2 best coaches of the modern era).

 

[ouryear]

Some? You are the only person pedalling the claim that Bellamy isn't a great coach!! Literally no one has agreed with your stance.

Everyone sees this thread for what it is (sour grapes, much like your thread that admits sour grapes towards Storm in the title) and recognises Bellamy for what he is (one of the 2 best coaches of the modern era).

Why do you feel the need to tell people how they should think?!

I do not think he is a great coach.

I don't have sour grapes, I think he is good.

I think it's your toxic hate of Mary that has put blinkers on your eyes.

Same as who should be the next player selected as an immortal?

Is it Andrew Johns, Is it Smith, Cronk??
Is it Lockyer, Billy Smith, and so on and so on....

What.....As long as it's the player you say is great, huhh?!

My supporting evidence is he has won a paltry 2 GF Wins from 15 finals campaigns.

I'm my opinion.... that is a fail.

If that's greatness in your mind, that's ok, I won't call it out as mediocrity.

Because it's your opinion you are entitled to it. We all have our own opinion of what success is.

Mine is just higher than yours.

Has coached only one team.
The team he coaches were caught out for cheating. Yes, he knew!!
He had more than $1million of extra players at his disposal to coach.

That alone cancels out any whisper of greatness.

What is your problem about not expecting him to prove his greatness by coaching another team?

Fear?

We can even give him a decent team to coach to give him the best chance.

As in the Panthers, Parramatta or Manly.

It doesn't have to be the warriors or titans lol

Why do you think they send horses and boxers overseas to take on new challenges?

SO THEY CAN PROVE THEY ARE GREAT.

He can do it without going overseas.

Only fear is in the way.

 

[grouch]

Oh dear. I'm embarrassed for you

 

[BennyV]

Why do you feel the need to tell people how they should think?!

I do not think he is a great coach.

My supporting evidence is he has won a paltry 2 GF Wins from 15 finals campaigns.

I'm my opinion that is a fail.

If that's greatness in your mind, that's ok, I won't call it out as mediocrity.

Because it's your opinion you are entitled to it. We all have our own opinion of what success is.

Mine is just higher than yours.

Has coached only one team.
The team he coaches were caught out for cheating. Yes, he knew!!
He had more than $1million of extra player at his disposal to coach.
Backed by news ltd.

What is your problem about not expecting him to prove his greatness by coaching another team?

Fear?

We can even give him a decent team to give him the best chance.

As in the Panthers, Parramatta or Manly.

It doesn't have to be the warriors or titans lol

Why do you think they send horses and boxers overseas to take on new challenges?

SO THEY CAN PROVE THEY ARE GREAT.

He can do it without going overseas.

Only fear is in the way.

Nice rambling! Bordering on meltdown, which is always fun!

First of all, you arent consistent with your marking. Bellamy has been coaching for 15 years, in which time he has made the finals 14 times, with the outlier being the punishment for being a club of filthy scumbags that should have been banned from the game forever.

However, you have claimed he has won 2 grand finals from 15 campaigns, which is untrue. If you are including all 15 years of coaching, then you include the 4 grand finals he won (regardless of whether or not they hold the premiership, he coached the team to win the actual game). Giving him a rate of 1 grand final win every 3.75 years, which is unrivalled across current coaches.

Of course, you take the path of removing the 2 illegitimate premierships - perfectly fine thing to do, I constantly do the same (especially to rev up Storm fans). However, if you are doing this then it's only fair to remove the entire 5 year period from his coaching resume, meaning he's been coaching legitimately for 10 years, with 2 premierships, giving him 1 premiership every 5 years. This is rivalled only by Wayne Bennett, who has been coaching first grade for 31 years for 7 premierships and is the other SuperCoach who I mentioned as being in the Top 2.

Now, Bennett left Brisbane (and I used the word 'left' quite loosely, as rumours have it he was pushed out) and gained some success somewhere, while also failing at Newcastle. So yes, Bellamy could do with showing his ability elsewhere and I've got absolutely nothing against that - I'd even take one for the team and let him experiment with us, because he's consistently shown his ability to get the best out of players! But to claim thats a reason he's not a great coach is laughable.

As for cheating the cap - you'd only need to look at the Bronco's set up and the teams that Bennet won those grand finals with for that argument against Bellamy to fall apart.

So tell me, what is your standard of success, if 1 premiership every 5 years is unacceptable? Which current coach could be considered 'great' if not Bellamy? Happy for you to have an opinion, would love to hear the alternatives and justification!

 

[Brutalitops]

Why do you feel the need to tell people how they should think?!

I do not think he is a great coach.

I don't have sour grapes, I think he is good.

I think it's your toxic hate of Mary that has put blinkers on your eyes.

Same as who should be the next player selected as an immortal?

Is it Andrew Johns, Is it Smith, Cronk??
Is it Lockyer, Billy Smith, and so on and so on....

What.....As long as it's the player you say is great, huhh?!

My supporting evidence is he has won a paltry 2 GF Wins from 15 finals campaigns.

I'm my opinion.... that is a fail.

If that's greatness in your mind, that's ok, I won't call it out as mediocrity.

Because it's your opinion you are entitled to it. We all have our own opinion of what success is.

Mine is just higher than yours.

Has coached only one team.
The team he coaches were caught out for cheating. Yes, he knew!!
He had more than $1million of extra players at his disposal to coach.

That alone cancels out any whisper of greatness.

What is your problem about not expecting him to prove his greatness by coaching another team?

Fear?

We can even give him a decent team to coach to give him the best chance.

As in the Panthers, Parramatta or Manly.

It doesn't have to be the warriors or titans lol

Why do you think they send horses and boxers overseas to take on new challenges?

SO THEY CAN PROVE THEY ARE GREAT.

He can do it without going overseas.

Only fear is in the way.

Actually it's been done to death that Bellamy had no knowledge of the cap cheating, and the same goes for the players. I know this is a hard fact to swallow as it's very easy to hate the Storm, but the fact is the players had no way of knowing what other players were being paid and only knew of their own circumstances.

So they knew what they were getting, sure. But for all they knew, that was totally okay (which is what they were being told by those in charge of the rotting). Bellamy was a coach, being led to believe his club had everything under control in this area.

I'm disgusted at how many times I've had to "defend" Melbourne in the last few days. They are my second most hated team besides East's, but at least my hate isn't blind or misplaced

 

[ouryear]

BEST EVER COACHES ARE.

Clive Churchill.
Coached Souths from 1967 winning
4 premiership from 5 years.
64% win record across 9 years of coaching
Bellamy would wish!


Norm Provan
Took Saints to 4 GF Wins in a row.
Player coach.
You guys know what that is?
Then took the Sharks to the GF in his first year coaching there.


Jack Gibson.
Took Roosters from WINLESS WOODEN SPOONERS to Semis in his first year.
Yes, WINLESS the year before.
Took Saints to 1971 GF
Took Newtown to Finals for the first time in years.
Then took the Roosters back to back.
Then took Eels to 3 GF Wins in a row.

F##k Bellamy.

Wake up guys.

Get some history into you.

 

[TomRedVRiver]

BEST EVER COACHES ARE.

Clive Churchill.
Coached Souths from 1967 winning
4 premiership from 5 years.
64% win record across 9 years of coaching
Bellamy would wish!


Norm Provan
Took Saints to 4 GF Wins in a row.
Player coach.
You guys know what that is?
Then took the Sharks to the GF in his first year coaching there.


Jack Gibson.
Took Roosters from WINLESS WOODEN SPOONERS to Semis in his first year.
Yes, WINLESS the year before.
Took Saints to 1971 GF
Took Newtown to Finals for the first time in years.
Then took the Roosters back to back.
Then took Eels to 3 GF Wins in a row.

F##k Bellamy.

Wake up guys.

Get some history into you.

I've been watching this thread for a little while and held back, but you really f**king pushed my buttons with this one.
"Get some history into you". "You guys know what that is?"
You know, you really make yourself look like even more of a dropkick when you put your elitist cap on and think yourself above others.

Nobody is refuting that those guys were exceptional coaches. Nobody. We are well aware of their success and the history of our game. So take your little top tip history facts and f**k right off.

Others here are being patient with you and props to them for the civil discussion... But as far as I can see it the facts are plain and clear. Bellamy is one of the greats and there is absolutely no legitimate argument against. Period.

 

[ouryear]

I've been watching this thread for a little while and held back, but you really f**king pushed my buttons with this one.
"Get some history into you". "You guys know what that is?"
You know, you really make yourself look like even more of a dropkick when you put your elitist cap on and think yourself above others.

Nobody is refuting that those guys were exceptional coaches. Nobody. We are well aware of their success and the history of our game. So take your little top tip history facts and f**k right off.

Others here are being patient with you and props to them for the civil discussion... But as far as I can see it the facts are plain and clear. Bellamy is one of the greats and there is absolutely no legitimate argument against. Period.

Go read posts that gave me the shits mate....telling me who I should think is great and if I don't agree then I have sour grapes.

That's what I reacted to, the same as you have to mine.

So yeah..like you, I don't take kindly to some on the forum telling.people you.must think he is great or you must have sour grapes.

So Benny V can get st..uffed

Read the posts....Don't selectively react to mine.

And yes, I still think some people have no knowledge of history... and yes....they need to know some of it ....before telling others what is great.

Either that ...or live in Melbourne next to bellamy.

 

[BennyV]

Lol@comparing coaches in the 60s and 70s to the modern day. Completely different game, completely different role.

 

[Brutalitops]

Okay if you want some statistics.

CURRENT ERA OVERALL WIN PERCENTAGES

Craig Bellamy - 68.1%
Wayne Bennett - 62.1%
Trent Robinson - 61.8%
Paul Green - 61.5%
Des Hasler - 58.2%
Geoff Toovey - 58.1%
Michael Maguire - 55.6%
Anthony Griffin - 54.2%
Shane Flanagan - 53.8%
Tim Sheen's - 50.8%
Brad Arthur - 50.0%
Ricky Stuart - 48.8%
Paul McGregor - 47.1%
Ivan Cleary - 46.9%
Trent Barrett - 44.9%
Jason Taylor - 43.6%
Neil Henry - 43.5%
Nathan Brown - 43.2%
Steve Price - 37.9%
Stephen Kearney - 25.9%

The only coach you mentioned that has a higher percentage is Norm Provan at 68.5% (against Bellamy's 68.1%), which really ain't that impressive when you consider the fact Bellamy currently has MORE THAN double the games coached than Provan. And that 0.4% will be surely made up for in the next year.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

fair point you make @ouryear BUT
Who is a better coach in the NRL? and by how much are they better? and where do you rank Bellamy against the current coach's and against all coach's past/present?

Okay if you want some statistics.

CURRENT ERA OVERALL WIN PERCENTAGES

Craig Bellamy - 68.1%
Wayne Bennett - 62.1%
Trent Robinson - 61.8%
Paul Green - 61.5%
Des Hasler - 58.2%
Geoff Toovey - 58.1%
Michael Maguire - 55.6%
Anthony Griffin - 54.2%
Shane Flanagan - 53.8%
Tim Sheen's - 50.8%
Brad Arthur - 50.0%
Paul McGregor - 47.1%
Ivan Cleary - 46.9%
Trent Barrett - 44.9%
Jason Taylor - 43.6%
Neil Henry - 43.5%
Nathan Brown - 43.2%
Steve Price - 37.9%
Stephen Kearney - 25.9%

The only coach you mentioned that has a higher percentage is Norm Provan at 68.5% (against Bellamy's 68.1%), which really ain't that impressive when you consider the fact Bellamy currently has MORE THAN double the games coached than Provan. And that 0.4% will be surely made up for in the next year.

Thanks for this insightful analysis.
The one that jumps out and surprises me is Toovey.
Passionate Wildman who can be inspirational.
Very knowledgeable - great tactician.
We could do a lot worse if he was in the driver's seat...

 

[Brutalitops]

Thanks for this insightful analysis.
The one that jumps out and surprises me is Toovey.
Passionate Wildman who can be inspirational.
Very knowledgeable - great tactician.
We could do a lot worse if he was in the driver's seat...

Exactly right. Geoff Toovey has been my preferred coach ever since last year. He would come somewhat cheap and even when he was sacked, it was undeserves

 

[emu62]

Not having a dig at you but i just cant comprehend how you can call making the semis 13 years straight, winning 4 premierships (taken off them yes, but the fans still got to celebrate them when they won them), 7 grand final appearances in total in 13 years, how can you call that a poor coach?
we have made the semis once in 6 or 7 years, mate, its laughable to even think of saying poor coach and Bellamy in the same sentence.





Could you point out where (Ouryear) called Bellamy a poor coach ? must have missed that

 

[since77]

Actually it's been done to death that Bellamy had no knowledge of the cap cheating, and the same goes for the players. I know this is a hard fact to swallow as it's very easy to hate the Storm, but the fact is the players had no way of knowing what other players were being paid and only knew of their own circumstances.

So they knew what they were getting, sure. But for all they knew, that was totally okay (which is what they were being told by those in charge of the rotting). Bellamy was a coach, being led to believe his club had everything under control in this area.

I'm disgusted at how many times I've had to "defend" Melbourne in the last few days. They are my second most hated team besides East's, but at least my hate isn't blind or misplaced

Lol

Yeah of course they had no knowledge of the second contracts they had to sign and GI had no idea there was a boat not included in his contract or NRL sanctioned 3rd party deal in his garage......

P.s Bellamy, slimy, cheating, wrestling asshole that he is, is still the best coach of the modem era, overtaking Bennett. It's a shame he hasn't had the balls to take on a challenge that didn't revolve around having 3 of the best players of the modern era to build a team around.

 

[ouryear]

Okay if you want some statistics.

CURRENT ERA OVERALL WIN PERCENTAGES

Craig Bellamy - 68.1%
Wayne Bennett - 62.1%
Trent Robinson - 61.8%
Paul Green - 61.5%
Des Hasler - 58.2%
Geoff Toovey - 58.1%
Michael Maguire - 55.6%
Anthony Griffin - 54.2%
Shane Flanagan - 53.8%
Tim Sheen's - 50.8%
Brad Arthur - 50.0%
Ricky Stuart - 48.8%
Paul McGregor - 47.1%
Ivan Cleary - 46.9%
Trent Barrett - 44.9%
Jason Taylor - 43.6%
Neil Henry - 43.5%
Nathan Brown - 43.2%
Steve Price - 37.9%
Stephen Kearney - 25.9%

The only coach you mentioned that has a higher percentage is Norm Provan at 68.5% (against Bellamy's 68.1%), which really ain't that impressive when you consider the fact Bellamy currently has MORE THAN double the games coached than Provan. And that 0.4% will be surely made up for in the next year.

You forget to include he has cheated.
He has had a million more dollars to build the team.
Take the million of him and he would not have had the spine he had.
He cheated.
He is a coaching slime bag.

 

[ouryear]

Okay if you want some statistics.

CURRENT ERA OVERALL WIN PERCENTAGES

Craig Bellamy - 68.1%
Wayne Bennett - 62.1%
Trent Robinson - 61.8%
Paul Green - 61.5%
Des Hasler - 58.2%
Geoff Toovey - 58.1%
Michael Maguire - 55.6%
Anthony Griffin - 54.2%
Shane Flanagan - 53.8%
Tim Sheen's - 50.8%
Brad Arthur - 50.0%
Ricky Stuart - 48.8%
Paul McGregor - 47.1%
Ivan Cleary - 46.9%
Trent Barrett - 44.9%
Jason Taylor - 43.6%
Neil Henry - 43.5%
Nathan Brown - 43.2%
Steve Price - 37.9%
Stephen Kearney - 25.9%

The only coach you mentioned that has a higher percentage is Norm Provan at 68.5% (against Bellamy's 68.1%), which really ain't that impressive when you consider the fact Bellamy currently has MORE THAN double the games coached than Provan. And that 0.4% will be surely made up for in the next year.

Mate, Gibson coached multiple teams to success. Roosters, Eels, Saints.

He won back to back with the Roosters and 3 flags in a row with the Eels.

Bellamy has coached ONE RORTING TEAM.

There is no comparison to the greatness Gibson achieved versus Bellamy.

Gibbo would have been man enough to resign had his teams got belted in 11 finals games from 13, as in Bellamys teams.

Like I keep saying, if bellamy ever has the balls to coach another team and takes them to greatness.....Then he can be up there.

But he won't. Scared.