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Brown quits

deal.with.it

Juniors
Messages
2,086
ECT is bang on.I also find it unlikely Penrith would charge $500k for ground hire.Ive heard they offered it a cost price,they just wouldn't pay to host a game.

Brown was quoted in the DT saying this. He said he regrets letting his emotions get to him, but payne blatently lied in his radio interview and public email.

Dunno why Adam Kungl is so annoyed? Brown is the best administrator the rlwc has ever had, has helped turn the WC into a prestigious event that has gov't fighting over matches and paying $1M in the case of Darwin!!

As others have said, Payne is a dickhead for going public after such an impressive event in the draw announcement. It was all positive. Yes Sydney only got 2 matches. Boo hoo.
 

paulmac

Juniors
Messages
776
Brown was quoted in the DT saying this. He said he regrets letting his emotions get to him, but payne blatently lied in his radio interview and public email.

Dunno why Adam Kungl is so annoyed? Brown is the best administrator the rlwc has ever had, has helped turn the WC into a prestigious event that has gov't fighting over matches and paying $1M in the case of Darwin!!

As others have said, Payne is a dickhead for going public after such an impressive event in the draw announcement. It was all positive. Yes Sydney only got 2 matches. Boo hoo.
So were using the DT as a credible source now? And I think you have a short memory -Sally Bolton did an outstanding job in 2013.Im glad he's gone,he didn't get the balance between $$$ & venue selection right.A 1/4 final in Melbourne likely to be PNG v England??? That's the game that should've gone to Darwin
 

Last Week

Bench
Messages
3,646
So were using the DT as a credible source now? And I think you have a short memory -Sally Bolton did an outstanding job in 2013.Im glad he's gone,he didn't get the balance between $$$ & venue selection right.A 1/4 final in Melbourne likely to be PNG v England??? That's the game that should've gone to Darwin

I agree. In an ideal world, another government would have stumped up the money to draw the quarter final away from Darwin.
 

undertaker

Coach
Messages
10,817
He said he regrets letting his emotions get to him

So the proof is in the pudding: Brown is a piker, not fit for the job. When the going didn't even get mildly tough, he just packed his bags and left.

Brown is the best administrator the rlwc has ever had, has helped turn the WC into a prestigious event that has gov't fighting over matches and paying $1M in the case of Darwin!!

$1m ONLY on the condition that Australia must play their Q/F match there (excluding the rare scenario where they finish 3rd and NZ finishes 1st, in which case Australia will have to play it in Christchurch or Wellington). The Darwin bid would've never been anywhere near that amount had it been just for a group match.

But it still misses the point though: Darwin should not be hosting a Quarter-Final, let alone any RL matches in mid-November. In a time where player welfare onfield has been under scrutiny over the past few years (e.g. concussion rules, shoulder charge ban etc.), playing matches in high 20s/low 30s with 50+% humidity is a recipe for disaster and unless you've been in those areas far up in the tropics during that time of the year, you'll never know. This is something that I can see the SMH/Telegraph making mention of

Regarding the Quarter-Final bit, I don't care if some fatarse Nathan Tinkler/Clive Palmer wannabe from a pub in Broome/Mount Isa/Alice Springs/Longreach/Broken Hill/Coober Pedy bid $10m for the match to be played in a crapshack stadium in their country town, it completely degrades and devalues the prestige of the event when this occurs, contrary to what you're saying. Cricket World Cup, Rugby World Cup, AFC Asian Cup and a potential FIFA World Cup in Australia would never be braindead to host their marquee matches at such venues. Only in Rugby League (especially Australia) do we have the best product of the lot, yet the administration constantly lowers the bar and pass mark, and most of the fans just simply go along with it.

So were using the DT as a credible source now? And I think you have a short memory -Sally Bolton did an outstanding job in 2013.Im glad he's gone,he didn't get the balance between $$$ & venue selection right.A 1/4 final in Melbourne likely to be PNG v England??? That's the game that should've gone to Darwin

This.
 
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undertaker

Coach
Messages
10,817
Why would the media NOT pick up on a rugby league tournament in which 2 games out of 28 were being played in the biggest rugby league market on the planet? If they hadn't it would be a massive problem because it would prove no one gives a f**k about the RLWC.

I don't 100% agree with everything you say, but you've nailed the point, as well as the ones below

They won't even be half filling "suburban shitholes" they'll be half filling regional athletics facilities instead. And for double headers as well.

When they fail to sell thousands of tickets because of double headers in small regional stadia and quarter finals in non-RL playing areas the economics of the situation might not seem like such a winner. Not to mention the bad PR in Sydney and NSW that has already put people off the tournament and IRL in general. The flow on effects of that to sponsorship, TV ratings and ticket sales to the two games in Sydney might make the economics of it seem rather poor indeed.

But in any case the genius who orchestrated it can wash his hands of it now that he's walked or got himself sacked for unprofessional behaviour.

People should look at Barlow Park and The ground in Darwin before bagging out Stydney grounds

This

If a CEO can't stand by his decisions, namely:
a) A highly controversial draw
b) Abusing people who dare question it
Then he shouldn't be CEO.

If he got fired he's an idiot, if he quit he's a coward. Which is it?

This x 100

Only negative is that a SF is not hosted in Sydney

But what do exoect when a RLWC is spread throughout the rest of Australia and the Pacific

Profit was more important and growing the game in regional ateas

Sydney has shown time and time again its lack of interest for international RL

As adamkungl and others have stated, the issue goes beyond the typical "Sydney being shafted due to their lack of support of international RL" argument:

- Other areas of NSW have been shafted. Easy for Sydney-hating jerks like Perth Red to say absolute tripe such as blame the NSW Government; you voted for them (which I and many others here didn't, you imbecile!). The fate of other potential venues in NSW should've never rested in the hands of state governments, which is a failing on the behalf of Brown for allowing this in the first place. As much as us from NSW love our rivalry with QLD, it is also a complete utter joke that even South-East Queensland - another RL heartland - will not see any World Cup action until the semi-finals. So, only 4 matches in Sydney/Brisbane. Could you only imagine 4 out of 31 matches in the 2021 UK RLWC held in the Manchester/Yorkshire regions?

- Playing Australia vs England at AAMI Park. Yes, the Perth Red argument is that it will sell-out, look and sound good on tv, but neglecting the fact that playing one of the marquee matches of the tournament in a 30k stadium is the epitome of selling yourself short, lack of ambition and aiming the bar low, which has become synonymous with the rugby league administrators (especially in Australia) for many years. This match deserved far better than that. Considering that it initially was proposed to be held at the MCG before Cricket Australia stepped it and didn't allow it, going from the MCG to AAMI Park is incredibly disappointing. Etihad in Melbourne had the right capacity for the match. Considering this corresponding fixture at Etihad in 2008 got 36k on a Sunday night (which didn't finish until close to 10pm) at a time when the reputation of RL in Australia before that World Cup was shaky (I did a longer post on this earlier in the thread) and there was a massive gulf in the playing talent between the squads, there's absolutely no doubt this time around Etihad could definitely got 50k+, and what a huge boost and publicity for the tournament that would've been to get off to such a start. England have come a long way since 2008 when we spanked them 52-4, and with Wayne Bennett as coach would've given the marketing/advertising committee something to work with.

- Playing the NZ vs Samoa and semi final in 25k seat Mount Smart Stadium instead of Eden Park. Again, like the Australia vs England point made above, another classic example of selling the tournament short. If the Warriors NRL club side have racked up 35k+ at Eden Park in the past, and NZ narrowly edged out Samoa when they met in the Four Nations tournament a couple of years ago, this fixture definitely could've got 40k+.

- Minimisation of travel. Another failing of Brown. Group B matches should've been all played in New Zealand, and don't understand the logic of having the other three teams travel back and forth between NZ and Cairns. Also, as an Aussie, even I can see that England have been screwed majorly, having to travel from Melbourne to Sydney to Perth to Melbourne (most likely for their Q/F) to potentially Auckland for their semi-final to potentially Brisbane for the final. That....is just insane, when you consider that NZ will barely travel much, playing all their matches in Auckland/Christchurch/Hamilton/Wellington until the final (in Brisbane, if they make it).

- A missed opportunity not capitalising on the ethnic bases in Australia. Games like France vs Lebanon could've sold out and got close to 20k in places like Campbelltown or Kogarah (Parramatta Stadium won't be available at the time), rather than in Canberra where it will struggle to crack 10k.

- Double headers. Yes, if it was at a larger venue such as Wembley and Cardiff in 2013, I could understand. But to play three of them, let alone in sub-25k stadia such as Perth and Townsville, and 15k Barlow Park athletics ground in Cairns is a joke. The only way the tournament organisers could still save face now that Brown is gone (and before tickets go on sale in October) is to take 3 of those 6 matches elsewhere to venues that don't have matches.

The scheduling of the venues clearly wasn't thought through properly and although it is good that places like Perth and PNG will be hosting matches this time around, the scheduling of other matches could've been much better
 
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franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Undertaker spot on. Move Cairns games to other parts of QLD works better. Sunshine Coast have a decent ground. Robina of course. Newcastle should have a game. Perth is good to have a game though so one good part of the draw
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,803
There is no historical bases for your hugely optimistic crowd projections undertaker. NZ v Samoa 40k? Please!
Ambition is great, cold hard guaranteed cash is much better for the rlif.

The RLWC has been building nicely in profile and profit since the disaster of the early 2000's. This will be another step forward. Brilliant that it is going to be enjoyed right across Australia, PNG and NZ. Can't wait.

Ps having been at the game at Etihad and having experienced AAMI, it's by far and away the best fan experience and the place will be rocking unlike Etihad.
 

jim_57

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
4,360
There is no historical bases for your hugely optimistic crowd projections undertaker. NZ v Samoa 40k? Please!
Ambition is great, cold hard guaranteed cash is much better for the rlif.

Historically though NZ have never played Samoa at home in the opening game of what is anticipated to be the biggest World Cup of all time, after they only won on the bell in the last meeting, with tickets going on sale a year in advance. So you're basing choices off history that hasn't happened?

I think at least 30k could have attended this game if played at a suitable capacity venue, although if Mt. Smart put up the better offer than I have no real issue with the opener being there. I have a massive issue with the semi being there though! Likely to be NZ Vs England/Australia in the Semi F'kin Final. 25k just doesn't do it justice. A bit of up front cash shouldn't be taken at the blatant disregard of the Tournament's prestige.
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
I agree NZ v Samoa should be aiming for 40k
Aus v England for 50k
Any finals match involving Aus or NZ 40k

It might not hit that target but that should have been the aim, with any means necessary taken to reach it.
 

Jim from Oz

Juniors
Messages
724
I don't 100% agree with everything you say, but you've nailed the point, as well as the ones below







This



This x 100



As adamkungl and others have stated, the issue goes beyond the typical "Sydney being shafted due to their lack of support of international RL" argument:

- Other areas of NSW have been shafted. Easy for Sydney-hating jerks like Perth Red to say absolute tripe such as blame the NSW Government; you voted for them (which I and many others here didn't, you imbecile!). The fate of other potential venues in NSW should've never rested in the hands of state governments, which is a failing on the behalf of Brown for allowing this in the first place. As much as us from NSW love our rivalry with QLD, it is also a complete utter joke that even South-East Queensland - another RL heartland - will not see any World Cup action until the semi-finals. So, only 4 matches in Sydney/Brisbane. Could you only imagine 4 out of 31 matches in the 2021 UK RLWC held in the Manchester/Yorkshire regions?

- Playing Australia vs England at AAMI Park. Yes, the Perth Red argument is that it will sell-out, look and sound good on tv, but neglecting the fact that playing one of the marquee matches of the tournament in a 30k stadium is the epitome of selling yourself short, lack of ambition and aiming the bar low, which has become synonymous with the rugby league administrators (especially in Australia) for many years. This match deserved far better than that. Considering that it initially was proposed to be held at the MCG before Cricket Australia stepped it and didn't allow it, going from the MCG to AAMI Park is incredibly disappointing. Etihad in Melbourne had the right capacity for the match. Considering this corresponding fixture at Etihad in 2008 got 36k on a Sunday night (which didn't finish until close to 10pm) at a time when the reputation of RL in Australia before that World Cup was shaky (I did a longer post on this earlier in the thread) and there was a massive gulf in the playing talent between the squads, there's absolutely no doubt this time around Etihad could definitely got 50k+, and what a huge boost and publicity for the tournament that would've been to get off to such a start. England have come a long way since 2008 when we spanked them 52-4, and with Wayne Bennett as coach would've given the marketing/advertising committee something to work with.

- Playing the NZ vs Samoa and semi final in 25k seat Mount Smart Stadium instead of Eden Park. Again, like the Australia vs England point made above, another classic example of selling the tournament short. If the Warriors NRL club side have racked up 35k+ at Eden Park in the past, and NZ narrowly edged out Samoa when they met in the Four Nations tournament a couple of years ago, this fixture definitely could've got 40k+.

- Minimisation of travel. Another failing of Brown. Group B matches should've been all played in New Zealand, and don't understand the logic of having the other three teams travel back and forth between NZ and Cairns. Also, as an Aussie, even I can see that England have been screwed majorly, having to travel from Melbourne to Sydney to Perth to Melbourne (most likely for their Q/F) to potentially Auckland for their semi-final to potentially Brisbane for the final. That....is just insane, when you consider that NZ will barely travel much, playing all their matches in Auckland/Christchurch/Hamilton/Wellington until the final (in Brisbane, if they make it).

- A missed opportunity not capitalising on the ethnic bases in Australia. Games like France vs Lebanon could've sold out and got close to 20k in places like Campbelltown or Kogarah (Parramatta Stadium won't be available at the time), rather than in Canberra where it will struggle to crack 10k.

- Double headers. Yes, if it was at a larger venue such as Wembley and Cardiff in 2013, I could understand. But to play three of them, let alone in sub-25k stadia such as Perth and Townsville, and 15k Barlow Park athletics ground in Cairns is a joke. The only way the tournament organisers could still save face now that Brown is gone (and before tickets go on sale in October) is to take 3 of those 6 matches elsewhere to venues that don't have matches.

The scheduling of the venues clearly wasn't thought through properly and although it is good that places like Perth and PNG will be hosting matches this time around, the scheduling of other matches could've been much better

I totally agree with all of that!
 

Hello, I'm The Doctor

First Grade
Messages
9,124
Yeah ok the media wouldn't have gone digging for a reason the CEO vacated his post days after a big draw announcement.

But more importantly, who cares? If a CEO can't stand by his decisions, namely:
a) A highly controversial draw
b) Abusing people who dare question it
Then he shouldn't be CEO.

If he got fired he's an idiot, if he quit he's a coward. Which is it?

Since it was leaked a day before he quit, id love to meet this timetraveling journo....
 

Hello, I'm The Doctor

First Grade
Messages
9,124
So were using the DT as a credible source now? And I think you have a short memory -Sally Bolton did an outstanding job in 2013.Im glad he's gone,he didn't get the balance between $$$ & venue selection right.A 1/4 final in Melbourne likely to be PNG v England??? That's the game that should've gone to Darwin

When they are quoting directly and naming their source... yeah, they are.
 

Hello, I'm The Doctor

First Grade
Messages
9,124
I agree NZ v Samoa should be aiming for 40k
Aus v England for 50k
Any finals match involving Aus or NZ 40k

It might not hit that target but that should have been the aim, with any means necessary taken to reach it.

So Brown has set up a draw that probably gets the RLWC a profit before a ball is even kicked, but you would rather plod games elsewhere on the hope that they hit mystical targets...

Sydney is utterly saturated with sport and obviously is indifferent to attending RL (note: last nights game and that ANZAC test that half-filled the SFS)

You can shut your eyes and say "pretty please give us a good crowd", but Brown is the one who cops it when it fails. And he has put success beyond doubt.
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
So Brown has set up a draw that probably gets the RLWC a profit before a ball is even kicked, but you would rather plod games elsewhere on the hope that they hit mystical targets...

Sydney is utterly saturated with sport and obviously is indifferent to attending RL (note: last nights game and that ANZAC test that half-filled the SFS)

You can shut your eyes and say "pretty please give us a good crowd", but Brown is the one who cops it when it fails. And he has put success beyond doubt.

That's it, set the bar nice and low so that when the park footy grounds are 80% full we can call it a big success. How exactly will Brown cop it? What are they gonna do, fire him?

This has nothing to do with Sydney - poor stadium choices even for games in good locations. (Except for Darwin, f**k that). AAMI and Mt Smart are weak choices. Everyone's saying they had to chase that government bidding cash because it's a major event, but then downplaying it as a major event by putting the biggest matches in small stadiums so we don't embarrass ourselves. Can't have it both ways...

But yeah you and Perth Red keep on bashing Sydney based on plod club games and 2 nothing test matches in the last 8 years
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,803
They set the bar high to make a guaranteed profit. Simple acceptable risk management. Given the historic crowds for IRL, the indifference of Sydney for attending RL games and the desire and money on offer from hosting cities/states they made the right decision imo. The crowds wont be low, I'd go as far as to suggest it will be the biggest avg'ing RLWC ever and the most profitable. But keep on whinging that NSW missed out on being big part of it and blaming Brown and the NRL. The rest of us will look forward to what will be an amazing competition played across three countries with it making a decent profit for the RLIF to continue to develop the game internationally for years ahead on the proceeds.
 

Hello, I'm The Doctor

First Grade
Messages
9,124
Instead, they have guaranteed low crowds.

Im personally more worried about the "guaranteed low crowds" in the NRL. Games there are played in run-down old suburban ground and no one bats an eye, because "tradition".

The difference is, this once-every-four-years competition is the only major source of income for the IRLF. I think a profit is more important than dick-measuring in crowd sizes.
 

Hello, I'm The Doctor

First Grade
Messages
9,124
Ive gotta say, i love how everyone has steered away from the fact that Payne and Gus tried to damage the comp and destroy this guys reputation.

If you really believe the Panthers werent trying to run Brown out of town, then give a reasonable answer to this:

Who leaked to the media about the voicemail??

Im still waiting on that answer...

Or are we all just cool with this?
 
Messages
14,139
Im personally more worried about the "guaranteed low crowds" in the NRL. Games there are played in run-down old suburban ground and no one bats an eye, because "tradition".

The difference is, this once-every-four-years competition is the only major source of income for the IRLF. I think a profit is more important than dick-measuring in crowd sizes.
And will 25,000 tickets make more money than 35,000? Will playing in small venues help attract sponsors? Will it help sell the event as something worth attending? The same people shitting on suburban grounds are happy to see double headers at even smaller venues with even less going for them.

And why the f**k supposed supporters of the game still can't get the name of the RLIF right is something I can't explain.
 
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