Cronulla game round 3

Discussion in 'St George Illawarra Dragons' started by ALSGI, Mar 13, 2017.

  1. Crush

    Crush Juniors

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    804
    Likes Received:
    910
    Yeah yeah I know. I was just frustrated reading the forum and all of the negativity OT.
    I see people making statements like sack the coach after a win and I don't get it. Whats the point? We all went through that at the end of last year. They should have sacked him but they didn't. Ok, so move on and lets see what he can do this year. And if he loses the playing group after 8 rounds then lets start threads about sacking the coach.
    I just think fans are so angry that they can't move on. They just want mary gone.
    I just want my team winning games.
     
  2. BennyV

    BennyV Coach

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    11,006
    Likes Received:
    2,926
    Of course we want Mary gone! Yes, winning games is good (and I'm happy to be proven wrong about getting spanked by the Sharks) but many of us are viewing the big picture. Mary, in his 2.5 seasons as coach, has shown that he doesnt have the ability to coach a team to sustained success. His strategic knowledge is nearly non-existent, the benchmarks he sets are low and the blame culture and scapegoating he brought into the club last year is embarrassing. Motivation will only get you so far before other teams find the cracks and without the ability to adapt, we will fall down the ladder after a false sense of success. As we saw in 2015.

    Targeting making the 8, or winning 50% of games and trumpeting that as a huge success is not good enough for some people. We want to be winners. The team should want to be winners, and if the coach is happy enough to accept the mediocre goal of simply being not as shit as some other clubs, it's simply not good enough.

    On top of this, his appointment (and soon-to-be extension) is representative of a disturbing trend of nepotism that will has seen, and will continue to see, the downfall of this once-great club. The fact and manner in which one board member publicly stated that his friend McGregor would be a better coaching appointment than the greatest coach of the modern era show exactly what is going on; the board want him there because he is their mate and will not rock the boat. Same reason Doust is still CEO, MIllward is Director of Pathways, and so on.

    We support the team, yes, but that doesnt mean we can't voice our opinions or want the best for the club long term. And Paul McGregor as coach has proven, to date, that he's not the best option long term.

    Now get off your f**king high horse and stop implying that those of us who want the best for the club are lesser supporters than you.
     
    dragonssamy61, Carlton and since77 like this.
  3. possm

    possm First Grade

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2011
    Messages:
    5,232
    Likes Received:
    1,571
    Crush,
    There are many on here who have all been through this same story before. We are frustrated; some to the extent they don't want the team to win; they want the coach gone.

    As in the past Mary will work the players under a simple plan, this season called 'power game' and bag the wins or close losses, justifying his contract extension. By this stage the players are worn out or busted. So begins the Dragon's losing streak and onfidence goes down the tube.

    Season over, all will be better in 2018 when Hunt arrives to solve all our backline problems.

    To hell with Mary and is inept ideas. Give us a good coach - mabe Mage - who knows what he is doing and how to improve players skills. Someone who can devise a game plan which varies each week according to our teams strengths and weaknesses and how we match up to the opposition. Do I dare to wish for the days when we witnessed smart plays developed especially to target weaknesses in the opposition.

    Yes some on here are negative however, time under stupid coaches - Price and Mary - has bent us this way.

    Sign Mage before another club grabs him. He is a good GF winning coach and South's will subsidise his contract.

    A real bargain, just the way Doust likes it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
  4. Crush

    Crush Juniors

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    804
    Likes Received:
    910
    Lol, epic rant
     
  5. BennyV

    BennyV Coach

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    11,006
    Likes Received:
    2,926
    And I even shortened it for you ;)
     
    Crush likes this.
  6. Crush

    Crush Juniors

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    804
    Likes Received:
    910
    OK Possm, I dont want to take on the bulk of the forum on this so this will be the last time I reference the coach.
    I disagree regarding the power game. I think its smart coaching. I think the dragons only strength is our forwards and we are playing to that strength. Our halves are the worst in the comp. Our backs are some of the most ordinary in the comp. I do agree with most that Mann and Milne should be in there but even still those guys are not near the level of other clubs backs.
    This year, given those deficiencies, our only hope is to play a power game and hope through pure grit that we win games on defense. Its smart coaching.
    And that is the last thing I say about the coach on this forum for a while.
    I respect your views and understand your frustration.
     
  7. dragonssamy61

    dragonssamy61 Juniors

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2016
    Messages:
    1,883
    Likes Received:
    1,529
    Agree benny
    We need to have the correct defensive plan for each team.
    Not just the same way of playing against every team.
    Otherwise as you have said the opposition will work it out quickly
     
  8. dragonssamy61

    dragonssamy61 Juniors

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2016
    Messages:
    1,883
    Likes Received:
    1,529
    Seat 1a
    I think you are right he over his injuries.
    But the biggest thing is he is playing for a contract and if he wants someone to sign him he needs to continue to play well
     
    SEAT 1A likes this.
  9. giboz71

    giboz71 Bench

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    2,830
    Likes Received:
    1,169
    I actually don't think we have any choice but to employ the power game and try to go through teams through our forwards.

    As I've stated, our backs are practically the same as last year (other than Nene replacing Mann) so not sure how we expect to score points. It's been 3 games and I've still yet to see a flowing backline movement. We have probably the worst half in the comp, Widdop even though he's been better this year has been terrible for a while now, Duges while being the best defensive fullback in the comp is limited in attack and has no idea how to create for others. Aitken is not a finished product, Lafai and Nighty are pedestrian and that's being kind.

    Most predicted we would finish close to the spoon this year with the current roster, so kudos to Mary for finding a way we can actually win games.

    Yes I agree we need a new coach who can employ new ideas, and with a world class half in Hunt and guys like Dufty, Field and Herbert coming through, we have an opportunity to transform this team.

    But for this year at least, this is the best we can do.
     
    Crush likes this.
  10. BennyV

    BennyV Coach

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    11,006
    Likes Received:
    2,926
    [email protected] coaching.

    It's not smart coaching, its lazy coaching. It's up there with trying to move Dugan to the centres, rather than creating a strategy to utilise the strength of our most potent attacking weapon!

    We employ a power game because McGregor knows nothing else. He has shown over the years that he can't put together an attacking play (including when he was 'attacking coach'). So over the last 2 years he's beefed up our forward pack and resorts to trying to beat opposition into submission. This doesn't work long term, he should have learnt that in 2015.

    We actually have some potent weapons in our squad - Lafai has ability, Aitken showed in CvC that he can create difficulty for opposition when used propert, Milne, Mann, MacDonald and Dugan would be more effective in most other teams. We also have 2 of the best line-running back rowers in the comp who've barely been seen hitting gaps and instead are mainly spent hitting up one off the ruck.

    Resorting to a power game is half the puzzle, it's not fully utilising the tools we have and it is not smart coaching. It's quite the opposite.
     
  11. possm

    possm First Grade

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2011
    Messages:
    5,232
    Likes Received:
    1,571
    Yes we are doing better than expected this year. I only hope the forwards don't get burnt out or busted.

    If we adjusted our backline - even one or two positions over the next couple of games, we may find that we can do the job much easier.
     
  12. BennyV

    BennyV Coach

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    11,006
    Likes Received:
    2,926
    I also think McInnes is key, being an 80 minute player, strong defender and controlling the ruck. We lose him, we look shakey. We lose him plus one of Packer, Vaughn or JDB, we are in trouble.
     
  13. since77

    since77 Juniors

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2014
    Messages:
    805
    Likes Received:
    651
    Welcome to the forum Mrs Mc Gregor. Smart coaching & Mary can't EVER be used in the same sentence. How about you head out to the garage and polish Mary's jet ski.
     
  14. giboz71

    giboz71 Bench

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    2,830
    Likes Received:
    1,169
    The way we defended against the Sharks shows the squad is switched on at least. Seems to be a good spirit in the dressing room which I didn't get a sense we had last year.

    For all of Mary's shortcomings, at least he seems to have that right. For now at least.
     
  15. giboz71

    giboz71 Bench

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    2,830
    Likes Received:
    1,169
    So you missed Thommo's 3 tries against one of the comp favourites??
     
  16. BennyV

    BennyV Coach

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    11,006
    Likes Received:
    2,926
    Hence why I said 'barely'! All up, Thommos probably scored 5-6 tries off edge-plays (half of which came in 1 game, when we finally figured out that we should be directing traffic at the oppositions weakest defender) and Frizell maybe 2-3 (that I can think of) over the past 4 years under McGregor's attacking coaching. Both are capable of many, many more. Creagh would have racked that up in half a season under Bennett's structures!!!
     
  17. Old Timer

    Old Timer Bench

    Joined:
    May 1, 2014
    Messages:
    3,748
    Likes Received:
    3,081
    Forwards dominating and setting up wins is all well and good but is laborious in nature, not something that happens quickly and not necessarily achievable against all teams.
    Other teams have game breakers, slick backs and speed to burn we don't have any of that and there is no inclination to provide it.
    Just imagine if we played in the semis at the end of the year and with 5 to go we are 4 down and pinned down in our own half and we start playing 1 out off the ruck, forwards hitting it up footy, do you really think that will win us the game?
    Imagine if we actually got a 3 on 2 in our own half and it ends up with Nighty just on our side of half way, sorry guys we are not going to score a long range try are we.
    Making the semis is just part of the journey and should not be seen as some great achievement in itself.
    Having a squad with a variety of options and game plans that if executed properly can win you any game is the ultimate.
    We have a power game in the forwards and deathly silence re anything else being in the bag of tricks.
    A good coach would provide so much more off the back of the forwards we now have at our disposal.
     
  18. giboz71

    giboz71 Bench

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    2,830
    Likes Received:
    1,169
    I agree but the same thing has been said about the Dogs for the last 3 years. Hence many Dogs fan want Hasler gone, even though it's his useless spine that is the problem.

    And Hasler is supposed to be a Super Coach with multiple premierships. Yet he can't come up with a game plan for his limited spine. The Dogs attack is worse than ours in a lot of ways.

    We suffer from the same problem. Yes, we need a new coach, but if you have limited players in key positions, there is only so much you can do.
     
    Old Timer likes this.
  19. Old Timer

    Old Timer Bench

    Joined:
    May 1, 2014
    Messages:
    3,748
    Likes Received:
    3,081
    A good coach will get what he needs in support staff and playing roster.
    All these other imposters will be told what to do by Millward, Doust and Co.
    Since B Moz left we have not had a dynamic, fast, powerful tear away outside back.
    Instead we have had Vidot, Nabuli, Hunt, FFL but to name a few and now we have Md Donald who is supposed to fit the bill and what do we do with him lol we stick him on the wrong wing, outside a centre who can't to pass, outside a half who can't kick or get through a gap and to top it off we turn him into a battering ram.
    If we took the hit ups off Nighty and Nene they wouldn't have any stats to speak of.
    If we had a backs orientated attacking coach we might finally attract some players but after the Mann fiasco IMO we couldn't attract flies at a picnic.
     
    giboz71 likes this.
  20. giboz71

    giboz71 Bench

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    2,830
    Likes Received:
    1,169
    Yep exactly right.

    We have no half, a pedestrian 5/8, a fullback and centre who can't create for others and 2 of the slowest backs in the comp in Nighty and Lafai.

    Watching Tommy Turbo light up the field against the Cows, or Latrell Mitchell for the Roosters, Rapana and Wighton for the Raiders. We have nothing of the sort. Vaughan's 60 metre run is probably the longest we'll see all year.

    We have an opportunity with Hunt coming on board and genuine speedsters in Field and Dufty, and a great centre prospect in Herbert. But nothing will happen till next year so this is the best we have for now.
     

Share This Page