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Dragons Chasing Paul Vaughan: 8 Other Clubs Included

D

dragonreddy

Juniors
Messages
1,216
TomRedVRiver said:
Kurt is a good player, but everyone is saying we need a General, and organising halfback. Do people really think Kurt Mann is that player? The last time he played in the halves was in his junior years and even then he was playing as a running 5/8. He couldn't even get a halves position in the Cutters and that was under Demetriou, not McGregor.
I just want to avoid people saying we should give him the job, then crucifying him when it doesn't succeed.
I want him to succeed, don't get me wrong! But I just feel like he's not the answer.
Click to expand...


100% Agree with your comments here, although Mann played in the halves for the Sunshine Coast Falcons in the Qld Intrust Super cup a while ago.

I would like to see the kid do well but a spot in the halves is ludicrous ,he buckled under the pressure of playing in the critical fullback position.He certainly has some good attributes to his game ,but to put him under pressure at half or 5/8 with some big defenders coming at him is too big an ask I think.

There is a huge difference in guiding the team around from the halves as opposed to following up kicks and finishing back line movements on the wing, the thoughts on here seem to be that because he came good after his shocker and became our best tryscorer (which isn't saying much when you consider our abysmal scoring record this season) ,he is now the answer in the halves.

Definitely not the answer,just because he had a few good games in QLD Cup in that position a couple of years ago .
 
C

Carlton

Juniors
Messages
1,224
TomRedVRiver said:
Kurt is a good player, but everyone is saying we need a General, and organising halfback. Do people really think Kurt Mann is that player? The last time he played in the halves was in his junior years and even then he was playing as a running 5/8. He couldn't even get a halves position in the Cutters and that was under Demetriou, not McGregor.
I just want to avoid people saying we should give him the job, then crucifying him when it doesn't succeed.
I want him to succeed, don't get me wrong! But I just feel like he's not the answer.
Click to expand...

Kurt Mann has played in the halves since his junior days and was successful. Even during his time with us he has shown he has the skills needed, for me what I dont know is can he find the time and composure needed for First Grade. This can only be seen from playing in First Grade. The idea that you shouldn't play him because people might give him a hard time if he doesn't succeed doesn't make sense. This is the case for every player who is playing First Grade.

Not playing in the halves for the Cutters was nothing to do with Mann's abilities, it was more to do with selecting the best balanced team with the players they had. I don't know if he'll make it but I'd prefer to see him given a go than jump at signing a second stringer now.

Every position that can be resolved in 2017 means that when buying players for 2018 (when we have a lot of holes to fill) the club can focus on the players they actually need.
 
M

monsterkev

Juniors
Messages
477
Carlton said:
Kurt Mann has played in the halves since his junior days and was successful. Even during his time with us he has shown he has the skills needed, for me what I dont know is can he find the time and composure needed for First Grade. This can only be seen from playing in First Grade. The idea that you shouldn't play him because people might give him a hard time if he doesn't succeed doesn't make sense. This is the case for every player who is playing First Grade.

Not playing in the halves for the Cutters was nothing to do with Mann's abilities, it was more to do with selecting the best balanced team with the players they had. I don't know if he'll make it but I'd prefer to see him given a go than jump at signing a second stringer now.

Every position that can be resolved in 2017 means that when buying players for 2018 (when we have a lot of holes to fill) the club can focus on the players they actually need.
Click to expand...
I said the same thing mann in the halves
Better than mccrone
But everyone has a differing opinion
 
T

TomRedVRiver

Bench
Messages
3,649
Carlton said:
Kurt Mann has played in the halves since his junior days and was successful. Even during his time with us he has shown he has the skills needed, for me what I dont know is can he find the time and composure needed for First Grade. This can only be seen from playing in First Grade. The idea that you shouldn't play him because people might give him a hard time if he doesn't succeed doesn't make sense. This is the case for every player who is playing First Grade.

Not playing in the halves for the Cutters was nothing to do with Mann's abilities, it was more to do with selecting the best balanced team with the players they had. I don't know if he'll make it but I'd prefer to see him given a go than jump at signing a second stringer now.

Every position that can be resolved in 2017 means that when buying players for 2018 (when we have a lot of holes to fill) the club can focus on the players they actually need.
Click to expand...

Understand what you're saying Carlton, but we are after a level headed, organising halfback to lead the team around and do we REALLY think Mann is the answer for that? Yes he played in the halves in juniors but that was more of a running 5/8 roll than a halfback. You saw how he handled the first few rounds of the fullback roll. I haven't once seen a moment when he's shown the skills needed to be a successful halfback.

Your point about needing time at halfback in first grade to see if he's up to it, I feel like that is completely untrue. You don't throw a player into a position he hasn't played in years at the highest level of the game just to see if he's "up to it". He would have to be training there, or playing there for the lower grades.
If Mann truly was an exceptional halfback they would have been playing him there for the Cutters week in week out so he could make a smooth transition into first grade as a halfback. You pick a team based on the players best suited to that position, not just on balance. That's the nature of the game, if a player is better than another player, one will be dropped or relegated to the bench and the other will start... This didn't happen once for Mann in the Cutters. He wasn't swapped with Hutch or Nona, he wasn't even played at fullback in lieu of Quinlan.
 
S

since77

Juniors
Messages
1,822
dragonreddy said:
100% Agree with your comments here, although Mann played in the halves for the Sunshine Coast Falcons in the Qld Intrust Super cup a while ago.

I would like to see the kid do well but a spot in the halves is ludicrous ,he buckled under the pressure of playing in the critical fullback position. .
Click to expand...

Hmm, he buckled under pressure (or as most smart people who know football would say, he had a bad game) - so recent shockers from Darius Boyd & Lachlan Coote at fullback mean what?
His form, playing out of position, in the second half of the year is ample evidence the guy is mentally tough and has enough footy smarts to handle any role a good coach willing to back him long term would hand him. McGregor is a moron - should have stuck with him at fullback and supported him through a tough time like any smart coach would have done.

Is he a half? Maybe not, but I'd willing to bet he'd be far more dangerous than either Widdop or Marshall were in 2016. Considering they actually bought him as a half / utility, the fact they haven't tried him once - in any either first or reserve grade is yet another skid mark on a long list of moronic player development under dead coach walking McGregor.
 
T

TomRedVRiver

Bench
Messages
3,649
since77 said:
Hmm, he buckled under pressure (or as most smart people who know football would say, he had a bad game) - so recent shockers from Darius Boyd & Lachlan Coote at fullback mean what?
His form, playing out of position, in the second half of the year is ample evidence the guy is mentally tough and has enough footy smarts to handle any role a good coach willing to back him long term would hand him. McGregor is a moron - should have stuck with him at fullback and supported him through a tough time like any smart coach would have done.

Is he a half? Maybe not, but I'd willing to bet he'd be far more dangerous than either Widdop or Marshall were in 2016. Considering they actually bought him as a half / utility, the fact they haven't tried him once - in any either first or reserve grade is yet another skid mark on a long list of moronic player development under dead coach walking McGregor.
Click to expand...

It takes a lot more than being mentally tough to handle a critical position like halfback in a team that desperately needs one. Wing is A LOT different to halfback mate.
I'm done with throwing in experimental players into positions that aren't their strongest. We NEED a natural halfback. If we can't get Carney it's going to have to be Hutch.
By all means let's try Mann, but I feel like people will be bitterly disappointed when he doesn't set the world alight.

As for McGregor not sticking with Mann at fullback, I completely understand the concept of sticking with a player through thick. But your comparisons are a bit irrelevant, Boyd and Coote? These are players who have proven themselves at fullback, players who have been doing it for years who have played representative level football.
McGregor had to pull Mann out of fullback, he was a liability for the first two games. His FIRST two games at fullback in some time. He hasn't proven himself at fullback and he had to be dropped to get his confidence and skills back up.
 
D

dragonreddy

Juniors
Messages
1,216
since77 said:
Hmm, he buckled under pressure (or as most smart people who know football would say, he had a bad game) - so recent shockers from Darius Boyd & Lachlan Coote at fullback mean what?
His form, playing out of position, in the second half of the year is ample evidence the guy is mentally tough and has enough footy smarts to handle any role a good coach willing to back him long term would hand him. McGregor is a moron - should have stuck with him at fullback and supported him through a tough time like any smart coach would have done.

Is he a half? Maybe not, but I'd willing to bet he'd be far more dangerous than either Widdop or Marshall were in 2016. Considering they actually bought him as a half / utility, the fact they haven't tried him once - in any either first or reserve grade is yet another skid mark on a long list of moronic player development under dead coach walking McGregor.
Click to expand...


Yep he buckled under pressure, comparing his "bad game", which was one the worst i can remember to Coote and Boyd isn't a real comparison these players are well established and have the runs on the board so to speak,not trying to establish themselves.

The bloke played on the wing ffs as stated in the previous post he performed well ,for sure no denying that, but how does that equate to being capable of filling a halves position,sorry perhaps you can enlighten us further as you obviously feel you are one of "the smart people who know football".
 
Dragsters

Dragsters

First Grade
Messages
5,367
TomRedVRiver said:
Understand what you're saying Carlton, but we are after a level headed, organising halfback to lead the team around and do we REALLY think Mann is the answer for that? Yes he played in the halves in juniors but that was more of a running 5/8 roll than a halfback. You saw how he handled the first few rounds of the fullback roll. I haven't once seen a moment when he's shown the skills needed to be a successful halfback.

Your point about needing time at halfback in first grade to see if he's up to it, I feel like that is completely untrue. You don't throw a player into a position he hasn't played in years at the highest level of the game just to see if he's "up to it". He would have to be training there, or playing there for the lower grades.
If Mann truly was an exceptional halfback they would have been playing him there for the Cutters week in week out so he could make a smooth transition into first grade as a halfback. You pick a team based on the players best suited to that position, not just on balance. That's the nature of the game, if a player is better than another player, one will be dropped or relegated to the bench and the other will start... This didn't happen once for Mann in the Cutters. He wasn't swapped with Hutch or Nona, he wasn't even played at fullback in lieu of Quinlan.
Click to expand...

Widdop to half, Mann to 5/8
 
C

Carlton

Juniors
Messages
1,224
TomRedVRiver said:
Understand what you're saying Carlton, but we are after a level headed, organising halfback to lead the team around and do we REALLY think Mann is the answer for that? Yes he played in the halves in juniors but that was more of a running 5/8 roll than a halfback. You saw how he handled the first few rounds of the fullback roll. I haven't once seen a moment when he's shown the skills needed to be a successful halfback.

Your point about needing time at halfback in first grade to see if he's up to it, I feel like that is completely untrue. You don't throw a player into a position he hasn't played in years at the highest level of the game just to see if he's "up to it". He would have to be training there, or playing there for the lower grades.
If Mann truly was an exceptional halfback they would have been playing him there for the Cutters week in week out so he could make a smooth transition into first grade as a halfback. You pick a team based on the players best suited to that position, not just on balance. That's the nature of the game, if a player is better than another player, one will be dropped or relegated to the bench and the other will start... This didn't happen once for Mann in the Cutters. He wasn't swapped with Hutch or Nona, he wasn't even played at fullback in lieu of Quinlan.
Click to expand...
To clear up a misunderstanding, when I talk about Mann playing in the halves, I'm not saying Mann should be halfback, I think he should be 5/8 and I think he has shown the skills for this.

I know this upsets a lot of people but I would be giving Mann a run ahead of Widdop, maybe he should be the half for the time being. Do we need an organising half, yes. The trouble is we are looking at Carney and internally our options are McCrone, Hutchison. The other option is Hastings, to be honest I am not overly impressed with any of them and would like us to be patient and get a real halfback for the longer term.

If we find a creative running 5/8 in Mann, great, part of the equation is solved. If not, we know with time to try and address the problem.
 
Lethal25

Lethal25

Juniors
Messages
1,492
Tez said:
Wikipedia states Paul Vaughan has with us today for 2 years! Of course, let's wait for the official announcement. :confused:
Click to expand...
Wikipedia can have information loaded by pretty much anyone, it's in no way shape or form anything official

Let's wait for the official announcement
 
Gareth67

Gareth67

First Grade
Messages
8,407
TomRedVRiver said:
Hahahaha. Ahhh this made me laugh.
Click to expand...

Don't laugh too hard T.R.V.River , as that is exactly what Wiki had about Mr. James Roberts - it said that he was contracted to .... Yes you guessed it ... Brisbane , whilst he was still being ' hawked ' around to the other NRL clubs !!!
 
Slippery Morris

Slippery Morris

First Grade
Messages
7,470
Does Wiki have Mary as Head Coach from 2013-2015? If not can someone please update now.

Hopefully that might start the wheels in motion.
 
S

since77

Juniors
Messages
1,822
TomRedVRiver said:
It takes a lot more than being mentally tough to handle a critical position like halfback in a team that desperately needs one. Wing is A LOT different to halfback mate.
I'm done with throwing in experimental players into positions that aren't their strongest. We NEED a natural halfback.
Click to expand...

Cooper Cronk was a centre in the lower grades until a guy called Craig Bellamy thought to play him at halfback. Same coach who was on record as having said Mann was biding his time in the centres at Melbourne until he moved him into the halves. I'll take Bellamy's opinion on a players capabilities most days of the week.

Onto sticking with players - beginning of last season Wayne Bennett stuck with a new recruit, a fullback named Anthony Milford, "experimenting" with playing a player "out of position" after Milford opened the season looking like the worst 5/8 in the comp. That worked out pretty well.

Two great coaches who know what a player is capable of and know how to manage the transition.

BTW, Mann would be a 5/8, not a halfback.
 
C

Carlton

Juniors
Messages
1,224
since77 said:
Cooper Cronk was a centre in the lower grades until a guy called Craig Bellamy thought to play him at halfback. Same coach who was on record as having said Mann was biding his time in the centres at Melbourne until he moved him into the halves. I'll take Bellamy's opinion on a players capabilities most days of the week.

Onto sticking with players - beginning of last season Wayne Bennett stuck with a new recruit, a fullback named Anthony Milford, "experimenting" with playing a player "out of position" after Milford opened the season looking like the worst 5/8 in the comp. That worked out pretty well.

Two great coaches who know what a player is capable of and know how to manage the transition.

BTW, Mann would be a 5/8, not a halfback.
Click to expand...

And don't forget Darren Lockyer from fullback to 5/8.
 
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