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Ecstatic Johns

Messages
587
Performance Enhancing or not a drug is a drug. Call me old fashioned but if Ecstacy is on the prohibited drugs list for a contracted player (which last I heard it is) then he broke the rules.

The argument is not whether he used recreational drugs or performance enhancing drugs the whole point is that he has been using drugs on and off over the last ten - twelve years.

I will repeat my earlier comment. He was a role model for rugby league and he has abused the respect that thousands of kids and supporters had for him.

Even worse than this is the way NEWCASTLE as a club handled it. It seems to me Brian Smith got that job for a reason and maybe he is just weeding out any future possible liabilities..........
 

Drew-Sta

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
24,573
Ronnie Dobbs said:
I'm a muppet? You sound like you still believe in Santa Claus. Or are a memeber of the Young Liberals. Obviuosly frustrated about something . Don't dare tell me that you are a qualified ref.

I don't condone the use of drugs in the game, quite the opposite. I just don't believe that Johns taking drugs constitues cheating though. Don't tell me about how he cheated the kids either. Please. You really need to get out and be a bit open minded about how the world works for grown ups before you start dealing in absolutes.

He's already been dealt with by the authorites. What do you want? A public flogging? Tarred & Feathered & made to run up Pitt Street in peak hour?

All I am stating is that in my opinion he did not cheat, therefore, whilst you may find what he has done to your disliking, it really is no ones business what he does.

If there is a rule, no matter how trivial you think that rule is, no matter how much you think that rule should be changed, and a player breaches that rule, it is constituted as cheating.

Johns, by that definition, is a drug cheat. Despite my personal feelings on the fact they weren't performance enhacing, and would have given him little benefit, he is by definition a drug cheat.

I've seen a lot of friends lost to this drug, and have a personal dislike for the drug as I've seen a few friends who, despite evidence saying it is not addicted, are clearly hooked on it.

I'm sorry for having a personal opinion Dobbs, but you smack of someone who simply doesn't care about whether a player has a duty of responsibility to those impressionable enough that watch him.

I don't believe in f**king Santa Claus you muppet, and I'm very aware of they prevalence in society. However, if a player wishes to earn the money they do and be in the spotlight they recieve, then they should at least conduct themselves properly, and wait until their career is over if they want to dabble in this area of life. Whether you like to admit it or not, kids are very impressionable, and if a kid sees his favourite player is a drug user, then it's like an instant admission to the child that this is ok to do.

Greggles, I have no doubt some of our players would be 'pinged' if tested at the right time. That in tself makes me very sad.
 

Ronnie Dobbs

Coach
Messages
17,122
Drew-Sta said:
If there is a rule, no matter how trivial you think that rule is, no matter how much you think that rule should be changed, and a player breaches that rule, it is constituted as cheating.

Johns, by that definition, is a drug cheat. Despite my personal feelings on the fact they weren't performance enhacing, and would have given him little benefit, he is by definition a drug cheat.

I've seen a lot of friends lost to this drug, and have a personal dislike for the drug as I've seen a few friends who, despite evidence saying it is not addicted, are clearly hooked on it.

I'm sorry for having a personal opinion Dobbs, but you smack of someone who simply doesn't care about whether a player has a duty of responsibility to those impressionable enough that watch him.

I don't believe in f**king Santa Claus you muppet, and I'm very aware of they prevalence in society. However, if a player wishes to earn the money they do and be in the spotlight they recieve, then they should at least conduct themselves properly, and wait until their career is over if they want to dabble in this area of life. Whether you like to admit it or not, kids are very impressionable, and if a kid sees his favourite player is a drug user, then it's like an instant admission to the child that this is ok to do.

Greggles, I have no doubt some of our players would be 'pinged' if tested at the right time. That in tself makes me very sad.

Fair enough Drew. All I am saying is that from my point of view, is that if the players choose to do this and its not assisting them on game day, then it should not come under scrutiny. If they are busted carrying illicit substances then it should be a law and order matter dealy with by the authorities, as in Johns case it was.

To me the cheating thing pertains to gaining an advantage & he gained no advantage from this. Also, to state that the drug is addictive when all case studies point in the opposite direction based on what your friends have done is incorrect. It is the lifestyle that is addictive.
 

Drew-Sta

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
24,573
Ronnie Dobbs said:
Also, to state that the drug is addictive when all case studies point in the opposite direction based on what your friends have done is incorrect. It is the lifestyle that is addictive.

There's such a thing called an emotional addiction. Same as people with poker or other types of gambling addictions. When a person has enough good experiences from a certain action, they can become reliant on it. Ecstacy is one of those. My friend, despite what people think, is addicted to it and can't have a good time without it.

It's very simple really.
 

Ronnie Dobbs

Coach
Messages
17,122
Drew-Sta said:
There's such a thing called an emotional addiction. Same as people with poker or other types of gambling addictions. When a person has enough good experiences from a certain action, they can become reliant on it. Ecstacy is one of those. My friend, despite what people think, is addicted to it and can't have a good time without it.

It's very simple really.

Yes. Very simple. Just like your ideals.
 

The Preacher

First Grade
Messages
7,193
Drew-Sta said:
There's such a thing called an emotional addiction. Same as people with poker or other types of gambling addictions. When a person has enough good experiences from a certain action, they can become reliant on it. Ecstacy is one of those. My friend, despite what people think, is addicted to it and can't have a good time without it.

It's very simple really.


That's me................. but I didn't know THAT was illegal !!! :oops:
 

dragonfire

Bench
Messages
3,081
Traditional Saint said:
Performance Enhancing or not a drug is a drug. Call me old fashioned but if Ecstacy is on the prohibited drugs list for a contracted player (which last I heard it is) then he broke the rules.

The argument is not whether he used recreational drugs or performance enhancing drugs the whole point is that he has been using drugs on and off over the last ten - twelve years.

I will repeat my earlier comment. He was a role model for rugby league and he has abused the respect that thousands of kids and supporters had for him.

Even worse than this is the way NEWCASTLE as a club handled it. It seems to me Brian Smith got that job for a reason and maybe he is just weeding out any future possible liabilities..........

I'm going to agree with Geyer and Gould, how can Andrew Johns be considered a role model, his actions on the field make him a hero of sorts to kids. We have little to no access to any footballers private life therefore we cannot use them as any sort of model. Johns has obviously struggled with his inner demons for a long long time, I think to have come onto the footy show as he did was huge and that is actually one thing people can use as a model as such. Has he set a bad example, yes he definitely has however it isnt going to push anyone into taking drugs. Nowadays drugs are everywhere and kids dont need any famous person doing it to push them into it. Alcohol is a bigger problem anyways and no one is going to kick up too much of a fuss about that
 

Ronnie Dobbs

Coach
Messages
17,122
Drew,

He is guilty of being a fool. As I've said before, my personal view is that its none of my business what he did in his own time if he didn't gain a competitive advantage from it & there is no evidnce that he did.

You're entitled to your no tolerance beliefs, but I don't believe that is the best way to combat the use of "recreational" drugs.
 

Father Ted

First Grade
Messages
5,531
Ronnie Dobbs said:
Drew,

He is guilty of being a fool. As I've said before, my personal view is that its none of my business what he did in his own time if he didn't gain a competitive advantage from it & there is no evidnce that he did.

You're entitled to your no tolerance beliefs, but I don't believe that is the best way to combat the use of "recreational" drugs.

The NRL has a no Drugs policy and when he was an employee of the NRL he broke it . He therefore has breached the rules of his employment and of his given word . Second although it means little to many It's illegal . Third While I know Bipolar disorder is one of the worst things you can wish for the stuff he was taking will only make the condition worse in the long run . Bipoplar does not give you permission to take illegal substances .

If it's true the Newcastle medical people knew all this was happening then turning a blind eye to the drug use then they betrayed him , because what they should have done was arranged appropiate medical help . To me it shows they did'nt care about the person inside the player.

 

Father Ted

First Grade
Messages
5,531
ANDREW Johns's standing as the perhaps the game's greatest player contributed to his slide into depression and illicit drug use, his former Knights coach, Michael Hagan, believes.

Hagan said he did not know his captain in the 2001 grand final victory over the club he now coaches, Parramatta, had dabbled in recreational drugs.

But he admitted he had spoken to Johns about alcoholism and his mental illness, which was revealed yesterday as bipolar disorder.

In Newcastle, Johns was considered a law unto himself, and Hagan said his status meant it was harder to rein in the champion halfback and respond to rumours about his drug use.

"I think we all could have done more, there's no question about that," Hagan said. "But you're also talking about someone with his sort of profile, his reputation and standing in the game.

"You'd be naive to say you didn't want Andrew Johns playing footy and doing what he did for Newcastle for 10 years. The town and team ran off the back of him for that long."

Asked whether the club had failed in trying to discipline him and if there had been double standards for Johns, Hagan said: "There had been plenty of attempts, and that's something the club can certainly review.

"You're probably right. We've seen other examples before. His profile and standing in the game … this is one of the biggest stories in the game for some time. In the end, you can't be with them 24-7, either."

In his public confession on The Footy Show last Thursday night, Johns said the Newcastle club had "probably" known about his dalliances with drugs.

So far, no past or present officials or coaches have said they did.

"There had been no evidence to me about him taking drugs," Hagan said. "He was one of the better trainers in the club. There is no question … that alcohol was certainly a big issue for Andrew. That was always known - he's depended on alcohol. That's the first thing he really needs to get under control."

After his side's loss to Parramatta yesterday, Brisbane coach Wayne Bennett lashed out at sections of the media after a report linked injured Broncos captain Darren Lockyer to illicit drug use because Lockyer had been in contact with Johns and former teammate Wendell Sailor, who is serving a two-year ban for testing positive to cocaine. Lockyer later rejected the report.

But Bennett said he had faith in the ability of the NRL's two-strikes policy, which was implemented from August 1, to weed out drug users.

"The NRL, like a lot of organisations, are probably too slow to move," Bennett said. "It takes time. But they've done it. It's moving and it's happening. That's all we have to do. I have faith in the NRL and the clubs to solve the problem.

"Players don't want it in their club [drugs]. Players don't want it. Clubs don't want it. What's happening where you work? Do you have that policy where you're being drug tested seven days a week, 24 hours a day?

"What's in the past is in the past. Joey is an ex-player …"

Asked whether he had taken up the concerns of former Broncos captain Gorden Tallis about drug use on the 2000 World Cup tour, Bennett said curtly: "If I had a conversation with Gorden Tallis, that's between him and me. I don't intend to make them public."

Rugby League Players' Association president Simon Woolford foreshadowed a post-season forum between his organisation and the NRL to decide on a direction - and he gave partial backing to the idea of an amnesty for players willing to reveal the extent of their problem.
 

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