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Emerging Nations World Cup

latingringo101

Juniors
Messages
585
Yeah but those nations have domestic development...thats the massive difference

Pretty much ALL the nations in the ENWC were going to have teams with ambitions to help grow the game in their retrospective nations.

Yes we, Middle East RL, Africa United etc were going to be involved, but we help field teams in NRL Harmony Cup competitions and help bring in MORE RL players for the NRL year in year out.

Plus we are associated with the RLIF as being they key to helping to spread the game in New developing markets.
 

deluded pom?

Coach
Messages
10,897
Difference is that JRLA actually exists and has done for a long time. The best comparison in the UK would probably be BARA (British Asian Rugby Association), and they have always played rep matches as BARA/British Asian XIII rather than claiming to be a Pakistan national team or whatever.
Probably because they include Asians or Asian heritage players who identify with more than one Asian country. A bit like why Africa United aren't called Nigeria.
 

deluded pom?

Coach
Messages
10,897
If by playing in a ENWC (in whatever guise) a country is then recognised by their own government and that recognition results in something beneficial for that country then what's the big deal about their "purity" as an international team? It's a means to an end, nothing to get hot under the collar about.
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
So in summary a lot of people have been inconvenienced and an old guy who was trying to develop the sport has lost a bunch of money because you tried to play full internationals involving "composite teams" and heritage organizations that had no business billing themselves as full international teams. Almost like I've been telling you that this was a bad idea for over a year. Do things the right way and you will have no problems with the RLIF.

There is nothing to suggest this is the case. The idea that the EN was rejected because of supposed heritage teams is one that exists only in your head.

I have to say, that article does put the spotlight on the daily struggle that many are facing to establish the game. It is definitely something that needs to be addressed. It was well-written and while i'm still not completely sold on the ENC concept, I do sympathise greatly with a lot of the people that were affected by this whole debacle.

Yep. At this point, the bigger debate is the processes of how this was accepted and rejected, and the unprofessionalism and all-round complete uselessness of the RLIF. To give permission, have people waste thousands of their own money on developing the sport (doing their job for them), then cut it off at the last moment over fears it will overshadow the WC is comically bad form.

Oh and still waiting on that 8 year international calendar guys...
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
Heres another one for good measure:
http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/02/25/rugby-league-rlif-2017-rlwc-viking-harvest/

A veteran administrator once said to me of the Rugby League International Federation (RLIF): “They tend to the sport like it’s a Vikings’ harvest.”

It seemed a curious phrase at the time, but the analogy soon became clear.

“They’ll expect you to fund the equipment, plant the seeds and do all the work,” he bristled.

“If anything ever grows, they’ll come along, plunder it and claim it as their own – otherwise you’ll be lucky if they look sidewards at you.”

As someone who harboured ambitions of growing the sport throughout Latin America, I initially thought the comments bordered on negative and defeatist, though I had no doubt they came from a well-meaning place.

This bloke simply didn’t want to see me waste my time and get chewed up and spat out like others before.

And to be fair, his turn of phrase was decidedly less dramatic than another description of dealing with the RLIF which landed in my inbox this week which read, “It’s like being in an abusive relationship.”

The reason for the increase of traffic through my inbox this week is because I broke a story a lot of people in Australia, the United Kingdom and New Zealand probably don’t care an awful lot about.

Back in January, essentially under a veil of darkness, the RLIF – at the behest of 2017 Rugby League World Cup (RLWC) organisers – blocked the hosting of the 2017 Emerging Nations World Cup (ENWC) in November.

For those of you unfamiliar, the Emerging Nations has been held twice before in conjunction with the fully-fledged World Cup and generally involves teams from the developing tiers of the game.

The 2017 ENWC had already received a bond from 14 confirmed teams and teams had signed sponsors, started to organise travel, accommodation and insurance, held diplomatic discussions, and developed an entire calendar around the event being played.

The confirmed participants were Canada, Greece, Hungary, Hong Kong, Philippines, Thailand, Latvia, Malta, Vanuatu and Niue, plus composite teams representing Africa, the Middle East, Scandinavia and Latin America.

DSC_1835-657x448.jpg

Africa United vs Latin Heat (Image: Ahmed Faris)

NIUE_v_PHILIPPINES_INTERNATIONAL_RL_TEST_2014_15286084537-657x448.jpg

Philippines vs Niue

Basically it was called off less than 24 hours before the media were scheduled to be advised – despite initial backing by the RLIF, ENWC, and NRL, and months of exchanged emails and meetings.

Without turning this into a 100,000-word essay, the crux is that the RLWC2017 officials felt the smaller, self-funded tournament between minnow nations would dilute its branding and somehow be a threat.

That whole notion in itself speaks volumes.

A tournament that had run successfully in synchronicity before; that was unlikely to have more than a handful of professional athletes playing at modest stadiums; held at non-conflicting times; would somehow steal the thunder of a top-level tournament with significant media and promotional power?

Right.

To further summarise the story, what gave it some oomph was the subsequent fall-out and the uncomfortable revelation that up to a dozen countries were now considering forming a breakaway federation.

You can understand this when many countries have been surviving for years on chickenfeed, doing the job the RLIF should be, then getting told a major opportunity and incentive is being taken away on a whim.

There’s that Vikings’ harvest old mate forewarned me about.

As I pointed out in a discussion with fellow Roar columnist Stuart McLennan, the ENWC is not the most important topic in rugby league, but it is representative of a wider pervading attitude and mode of operation.

There are several countries in Asia that have been gallantly flying the flag for rugby league in exchange for the occasional bundle of free footballs, while their rugby union counterparts collect annual cheques well into six figures.

Eastern European countries can’t get funding for basic necessities like referees and uniforms, raising questions about where all the money received from the European Union has gone.

In the case of Latin America, I’d be wholly surprised if anyone else in the RLIF aside from Development Officer Tas Baitieri and his hard-working assistant Anna Byrne knows the names of a single person who lives in the continent and administers the sport.

Roaring Recommendations
The RLIF mentions countries in its annual report and global rankings that it has never sent an email to, largely because the more countries and new regions it looks to be engaging, the bigger it can look and the more funding it can collect.

A larger issue about the disconnect and distrust simmering between the sport’s two major regional federations – European Federation and Asia Pacific Confederation – is worth its own column at a later point.

People on the frontline in developing nations cannot believe that an international sports organisation operates the way the RLIF does.

Carlos Varela, a 73-year-old retiree in Argentina, has been an amazing administrator for the sport.

15039642_1093774790721253_4212495099715476532_o-657x448.jpg
Carlos Varela (right) presenting a Manly jersey to a local radio station in Argentina as part of promoting the sport there.

He almost single-handedly organised for Chile to play Argentina in a historic game last November, being personally responsible for everything right down to wrangling a better deal for hamburgers and beers on the night of the game.

You better believe he has shelled out bigtime from his pocket to keep the game alive in a country of more than 100,000 union players.

You better believe he was dearly hoping the 2017 ENWC would happen so he could promise his most outstanding players a pathway to higher levels – because otherwise he will keep losing them to union.

You better believe it broke his heart when he heard the flight to Australia he had saved for and booked in November 2017 was rendered useless.

And that’s what people are not seeing.

They reckon the cancellation of the ENWC is a good thing, because it would have been entirely full of heritage players from Australia.

That concept is pure bunkum and all teams were planning to combine heritage and domestic players for the benefit of developing the reach of the code.

All Australian-based representatives of nations were operating in full cooperation with their counterparts back home.

All this move has done is raise questions over the professionalism and integrity of the Rugby League International Federation.

But sadly these are not new questions. It’s just brought them to the fore.

I’ll be very clear in saying that it’s 100 per cent true there is discussion about forming a breakaway federation. It has been discussed, but it’s not what anybody wants the sport to endure.

The peasant farmers are just waiting for the Vikings to get some manners in the meantime.

Until then, here are some important questions to ponder:

If the RLWC2017 was surprised by the ENWC concept, then are we led to believe that there was no forward planning about how the World Cup would engage those 40+ countries on the next tier in November? Had it not been considered what potential wider good this tournament may have or how contacts in these areas might have been helpful?

If ENWC had not come to its own fruition, would there be no plan or involvement for nations which represent a quarter of the world’s population? There was only a hastily thrown-together 2018 plan after they ditched the 2017 tournament.

There are claims ENWC would confuse non-dedicated rugby league followers, despite there being women’s events, military events, and university events happening in a scheduled fashion.

Are we to assume then that for the remainder of the year that nobody knows clearly what the NRL is, because we have multiple competitions such as the QRL, NSWRL, CRL, juniors and schools leagues on? Many of these have finals within weeks of each other and people generally seem to be able to differentiate them.

The RLWC 2017 is claiming they have an exclusivity deal that would legally forbid the ENWC from being held.

Where does this exclusivity extend to? Is it only to cities in which the RLWC2017 is being played? Does it incorporate the whole of PNG and New Zealand as well? If volunteers play in a self-funded tournament, how does this legally differ to a large group of private citizens arranging to meet in one location to play a sport they love?

Further to this point – if an exclusivity deal of such importance was in place, would all nations not have been told this earlier – seeing they regularly compete in the late October timeframe?

Surely this exclusivity deal could be overturned if the RLWC2017 wanted to. And would the RLWC2017 really take the Emerging Nations to court?

When we hear the same tired old accusations thrown at the RLWC that it is a “game played in three countries”, “has no global vision”, and “is only played by countries that were under British colonial rule”, will they refer to the ENWC as their proof of otherwise?


But but the heritage teams
 

roughyedspud

Coach
Messages
12,181
Pretty much ALL the nations in the ENWC were going to have teams with ambitions to help grow the game in their retrospective nations.

You've proved the point there..

"with ambitions to help grow the game in their respective countries"

Do that,get domestic development off the ground,get a basic league off the ground....and then play legitimate internationals...

Thats all we're asking...and i take everyones point about scotland lol
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
You've proved the point there..

"with ambitions to help grow the game in their respective countries"

Do that,get domestic development off the ground,get a basic league off the ground....and then play legitimate internationals...

Thats all we're asking...and i take everyones point about scotland lol

But my point is, based on the information available, this has nothing to do with the RLIF's decision to can it. In fact, they've claimed they'll support it next year anyway, presumably with the same kinds of teams involved.

Concerns about heritage teams have never entered the RLIF's radar. They don't care about this, at all.
Evidence:
-recent rule change allowing dual representation.
-enforcement of, and subsequent confusion over, domestic quotas
-Scotland.
-previous endorsement of Latin Heat matches.
 

deluded pom?

Coach
Messages
10,897
You've proved the point there..

"with ambitions to help grow the game in their respective countries"

Do that,get domestic development off the ground,get a basic league off the ground....and then play legitimate internationals...

Thats all we're asking...and i take everyones point about scotland lol
Maybe playing in a ENWC helps that development move along quicker than it would without it. We won't suddenly magic up domestic leagues here there and everywhere without some compromises somewhere down the line. This "pure" home grown international side is complete BS. Even England, Australia and New Zealand can't manage that.
 

Arucard

Juniors
Messages
589
People should just suck it up and play it next year.
Already we have an article about a breakaway from the RLIF in World Cup year.
We don't need this shit. Sort it out and lock it in for next year, and let the the focus return to the ones who were good enough to qualify for the event proper.
 

deluded pom?

Coach
Messages
10,897
People should just suck it up and play it next year.
Already we have an article about a breakaway from the RLIF in World Cup year.
We don't need this shit. Sort it out and lock it in for next year, and let the the focus return to the ones who were good enough to qualify for the event proper.
I take it you'll be happy to reimburse anyone who is out of pocket due to the RLIF's eleventh hour decision to cancel. Or should those people "just suck it up"?
 

Arucard

Juniors
Messages
589
I take it you'll be happy to reimburse anyone who is out of pocket due to the RLIF's eleventh hour decision to cancel. Or should those people "just suck it up"?
If they'd prefer it, they can whinge then.
Everyone knew this was World Cup year. All parties should have been consulted before doing anything.
World Cup organizers were not happy, and the main event takes proper place of coming first before anything else.
Play it next year. Bring on the World Cup.
 

deluded pom?

Coach
Messages
10,897
If they'd prefer it, they can whinge then.
Everyone knew this was World Cup year. All parties should have been consulted before doing anything.
World Cup organizers were not happy, and the main event takes proper place of coming first before anything else.
Play it next year. Bring on the World Cup.
The RLIF were consulted and gave their consent. Then the WC organisers whinged that a park tournament would take some of the limelight away from their WC. Fecking pathetic. The fact it's a WC year is irrelevant. The ENWC has run alongside the full WC twice previously without any problems. What next? Pull the other WCs organised to be played in 2017 as well?
 

Arucard

Juniors
Messages
589
The RLIF were consulted and gave their consent. Then the WC organisers whinged that a park tournament would take some of the limelight away from their WC. Fecking pathetic. The fact it's a WC year is irrelevant. The ENWC has run alongside the full WC twice previously without any problems. What next? Pull the other WCs organised to be played in 2017 as well?
A competition for teams that failed is not the same as a competition for different levels of the game.......
 

deluded pom?

Coach
Messages
10,897
A competition for teams that failed is not the same as a competition for different levels of the game.......
So why are the WC organisers afraid this tournament for failures will take some of the spotlight away from their event full of superstars?
 

roughyedspud

Coach
Messages
12,181
I think its worth noting that the RLIF aren't actually organising the world cup,the ARLC are,they do it for the RLIF,like how the RFL did for the 2013 RLWC..

Also...can we decide what the RLIF are? Its either a body that "rapes & pillages" like viking invaders....or its one bloke,dave collier,sat behind a desk with no money or staff...it can't be both..


but anyway....
 

deal.with.it

Juniors
Messages
2,086
Couple of quick points:

- Adam Kungl is involved with Latin Heat, as is Latin Gringo 101 ... so no one is going to convince them of a different idea/point of view

- The RLWC approved a couple of curtain raiser matches, never an ENWC

- The ENWC teams decided they couldn't afford the stadium rental and decided to make their own tournament, which wasn't approved by anyone

- It's still debatable if the ENWC would be good for international RL, that is what people on here are trying to voice. Some nations are doing good things, others (Niue, Africa United) are just helping more players in Australia play the game (which is good, but not what we desperately need).

- Robert Burgin speaks of almost a dozen nations looking at breaking away. Well count the 6 or more Latin Heat nations, throw in Hong Kong and Thailand and you're almost there. No nation that plays by the RLIF rules (very similar to all other sports) is talking about a break away.
 

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