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England vs France & European Championship news

roughyedspud

Coach
Messages
12,181
Even if you could fit that into the calendar the England team that plays in the Euro Cup will still be a 2nd string side!!
 

Pommy

Coach
Messages
14,657
Seriously?

Have a 6 team Euro Cup. 2 pools, 2 games each + a final. England play 3 Euro Cup games + 3 NZ test series games. 6 games, less than the 7 they played last year.

Although are England going to go in to a cup with no warm up game?
If they don’t treat it as a normal competition and get beat by someone like Italy the Australian media would lap it up and beat the international league is dead drum.
 

Springs09

Juniors
Messages
1,903
Although are England going to go in to a cup with no warm up game?
If they don’t treat it as a normal competition and get beat by someone like Italy the Australian media would lap it up and beat the international league is dead drum.

Who gives a shit? If that's what stops us from having more tournaments then we'll just give up now. The Australian media beats the 'international league is dead' drum during World Cups, so let's not have another World Cup.
 

Springs09

Juniors
Messages
1,903
England lost to Italy right before World Cup 2013, yet life went on as normal. Plus, let's not kid ourselves, the Aussie media is so indifferent to international league, this Euro Cup will be lucky to even get results published in Aussie papers.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-league/24565586

Nah, NZ losing to Tonga and Fiji is great for international league. England losing to Italy or Ireland means international league is dead, can't happen. So let's not even bother to play.
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
Although are England going to go in to a cup with no warm up game?
If they don’t treat it as a normal competition and get beat by someone like Italy the Australian media would lap it up and beat the international league is dead drum.

See this is the logic that bothers me.

(don't take this as a crack specifically against England, Aus and NZ are as guilty of it. It's an attitude prevalent across the sports professional nations)

England won't enter a full team in the Euro Cup because they're too good for it, but they won't enter a second-string team because they fear losing/theres no money in it/no one would watch it/any number of excuses, but they will send a second string team to the Pacific?
 

Pommy

Coach
Messages
14,657
See this is the logic that bothers me.

(don't take this as a crack specifically against England, Aus and NZ are as guilty of it. It's an attitude prevalent across the sports professional nations)

England won't enter a full team in the Euro Cup because they're too good for it, but they won't enter a second-string team because they fear losing/theres no money in it/no one would watch it/any number of excuses, but they will send a second string team to the Pacific?

My point wasn’t that we shouldn’t do either. Just that if England are going to compete in the competition it has to betrested liek any other competition would be , which would require warm up games and that adds to the number played in total. We shouldn’t be playing in this competition as our first game since the Denver test.
 

Springs09

Juniors
Messages
1,903
My point wasn’t that we shouldn’t do either. Just that if England are going to compete in the competition it has to betrested liek any other competition would be , which would require warm up games and that adds to the number played in total. We shouldn’t be playing in this competition as our first game since the Denver test.

Why the hell do we need warm-up games exactly? Is France just a warm-up game before the Kiwis test series? Is Australia just a warm-up game for the Kiwis? How many warm-ups did the competing nations play before the 2015 European Cup? Or do the smaller nations not need a warm-up?

France and Wales are usually the warm-up opponents but since they are in the competition you need a warm-up for them. A warm-up for the warm-ups.

Even without all the rubbish, 7 is still not that big a number of games. England played that amount last year.

And I will specifically criticise England if adam won't. England supporters always criticise Australia for not playing enough tests and rightly so, but apparently England are too good to play anyone else but Australia and NZ? They want NZ and Australia to play in Pacific tournaments with Tier 2 nations, but England are oh so good they can't possibly play in the Euro Cup. Playing NZ 4 times and France once is rubbish from England.
 

Pommy

Coach
Messages
14,657
Why the hell do we need warm-up games exactly? Is France just a warm-up game before the Kiwis test series? Is Australia just a warm-up game for the Kiwis? How many warm-ups did the competing nations play before the 2015 European Cup? Or do the smaller nations not need a warm-up?

France and Wales are usually the warm-up opponents but since they are in the competition you need a warm-up for them. A warm-up for the warm-ups.

Even without all the rubbish, 7 is still not that big a number of games. England played that amount last year.

And I will specifically criticise England if adam won't. England supporters always criticise Australia for not playing enough tests and rightly so, but apparently England are too good to play anyone else but Australia and NZ? They want NZ and Australia to play in Pacific tournaments with Tier 2 nations, but England are oh so good they can't possibly play in the Euro Cup. Playing NZ 4 times and France once is rubbish from England.

Im not sure what your rant is about are the France game or the NZ games competitions?
What the other nations do is really up to them.
I haven’t said we shouldn’t play in the euro cup just that if we do it should be taken seriously.

Good rant though.
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
Since the 2008 WC it feels like we've been having the same old arguments year in year out, which is why people get the shits and go on rants.

There's been great growth in the number of nations picking up the game at grassroots level, safe to say more than ever before in the game's history.

But the story at the top and middle is still one of treading water.
The biggest step taken was Tonga competing with the big dogs and if anything that was a reaction to bad management rather than a result of good.

The big 3 don't play enough games and show no respect to anyone else.
The next 10-15 you could consider 'tier 2' can't afford to play professional quality games and are given sporadic, poorly organised tournaments by the RLIF and antagonistic attitudes from the pro clubs.
World Cups set low bars and still fail to reach them.

Frustrating, rudderless sport.
This European Cup should have been locked and loaded by the new year. The question of England participating should have been decided months ago. Tickets should be on sale now.
The situation in the Pacific is even worse, with Tonga v Samoa laughably scheduled in bloody Campbeltown and no actual Pacific Cup even mentioned by the powers that be. Which leads to PNG picking up matches against England's B-team presumably due to lack of actual Test options
 

Pommy

Coach
Messages
14,657
Since the 2008 WC it feels like we've been having the same old arguments year in year out, which is why people get the shits and go on rants.

There's been great growth in the number of nations picking up the game at grassroots level, safe to say more than ever before in the game's history.

But the story at the top and middle is still one of treading water.
The biggest step taken was Tonga competing with the big dogs and if anything that was a reaction to bad management rather than a result of good.

The big 3 don't play enough games and show no respect to anyone else.
The next 10-15 you could consider 'tier 2' can't afford to play professional quality games and are given sporadic, poorly organised tournaments by the RLIF and antagonistic attitudes from the pro clubs.
World Cups set low bars and still fail to reach them.

Frustrating, rudderless sport.
This European Cup should have been locked and loaded by the new year. The question of England participating should have been decided months ago. Tickets should be on sale now.
The situation in the Pacific is even worse, with Tonga v Samoa laughably scheduled in bloody Campbeltown and no actual Pacific Cup even mentioned by the powers that be. Which leads to PNG picking up matches against England's B-team presumably due to lack of actual Test options

I get that I just find it a bit rich for someone to call out England when we are the only 'big 3' nation to annually play a full side against a team outside that group.

Personally I'm really conflicted on the Euro cup. I want to see the game grow internationally, I'm just not sure a lopsided euro cup is going to be of benefit to anyone. At the same time we won't know for sure unless it is tried.
Do the nations gain much from getting a heap of points put on them, especially when 4 of the 5 teams will have a large contingent of Englishmen and Antipodeans?
Would a euro cup not containing England with an emphasis on developing locals be of more benefit to the sport overall?

Again i'm not trying to say i have the answer just thinking out loud.

I dont think England playing in the comp is going to bring in a lot of money though. Probably not enough to cover the match fees for the side which is probably why the RFL hasn't jumped on the idea.
I also don't think you are going to get huge crowds for the games either, who is going to spend money to watch England vs Italy or wales when NZ are in town a few weeks later?
 

langpark

First Grade
Messages
5,867
It's a tough one. If we have England Knights + the other 5, using their typical majority heritage sides etc. Then you can expect it to draw crowds of 2-3000 in Wales and Ireland. 5000+ in France. Italy and Scotland, not sure.

But then if you go with all local players, it will be very low quality and will get no crowds. Because it will be only amateurs playing, they won't invest any money into promoting it therefore won't pull crowds and will be a real non-event.

I think they have to go with the first option, at least for the first year, in the hope of establishing it as a credible (and watchable) tournament and then go from there. Maybe gradually restrict the number of heritage players per team more and more with every tournament that passes.
 

roughyedspud

Coach
Messages
12,181
England play 5 tests this year and are sending our 2nd team on tour to PNG..

and people whinge...f**k me RL really does have the dumbest f**king fans in the world..
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
It's a tough one. If we have England Knights + the other 5, using their typical majority heritage sides etc. Then you can expect it to draw crowds of 2-3000 in Wales and Ireland. 5000+ in France. Italy and Scotland, not sure.

If heritage sides is a big problem then why do we bother with the World Cup? Surely a Euro Cup can play by the same rules
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
England play 5 tests this year and are sending our 2nd team on tour to PNG..

and people whinge...f**k me RL really does have the dumbest f**king fans in the world..

All very nice for England but looking at the bigger picture it's messy as. The sport has to move past total focus on the big 3 and throwing scraps to the rest.
The big nations, the small nations, and the RLIF all contribute to the problem.
 

langpark

First Grade
Messages
5,867
If heritage sides is a big problem then why do we bother with the World Cup? Surely a Euro Cup can play by the same rules
I didn't say it was a problem, I think it's the way to go for the first year at least. All-domestic sides mean England can't be a part of it and that France will put cricket scores on all the other teams.
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
I didn't say it was a problem, I think it's the way to go for the first year at least. All-domestic sides mean England can't be a part of it and that France will put cricket scores on all the other teams.

Sorry, I mean they should put out the best sides possible, same as they would for a world cup.
If no one in Scotland shows up to watch them it's because RL is a tiny sport there more than complaints about how authentic the teams are.
 

Pommy

Coach
Messages
14,657
All very nice for England but looking at the bigger picture it's messy as. The sport has to move past total focus on the big 3 and throwing scraps to the rest.
The big nations, the small nations, and the RLIF all contribute to the problem.

And England in one form or another have 3 games with non big 3 sides this year. We seem to be doing our part.
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
So. Debate aside, it looks like England won't be in the Euro Cup, nor Italy, leaving it as a 4-Nations?

Hopefully it's a well promoted event, gets televised in all the countries participating, and has some quality players on board.
 
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