GIO schoolboy cup/throphy

[R2Coupe]

I haven't seen any of the games this year. Does anyone think Marion Seve is a chance at first grade next year? They only have 2 centers in the top squad for 2014 and none of the 20s centers have been impressive this year.

No, the demands physically are too great. There are a few other centre talents in NYC next year including Watson Heleta who has represented NZ under age and Tom Satterthwaite from Balmain SG Ball.

 

[MacDougall]

Vic:

Chris Lawrence
Tim Simona
Keith Lulia
Pat Richards
Tim Moltzen
Curtis Sironen

Have all played centre in the NRL.

David Nofoaluma
Taqele Naiyaravaro
Blake Austin

Have all played centre in lower grades.

I know it's not a lot of dedicated centres but it's not like we're short of options. He's certainly in with a shot if he sets the world on fire. Satterthwaite is more of a winger isn't he? And Seve is obviously better than Heleta since they played in the same high school side and Seve got the Peter Sterling medal.

 

[Sydney Knight]

I have seen the last few games. Seve is a class above at that level. Who knows how he will go at the higher levels though?

 

[half_back]

You obviously don't know about the arms race (sports scholarships - which are outlawed by GPS rules, but certain schools still provided under the table) and its effect on the GPS rugby competition.

The recent results of such actions - two schools (Grammar and High) have dropped out of the comp and a 3rd (Shore) is on the verge of dropping out.

The competition has been reduced from 8 schools to 6 and now possibly 5; all as a result of the arms race.

Now look at the flow-on effect it has had on the sport, in general. The Wallabies are on the verge of becoming a 2nd tier nation.

Providing scholarships, in general, is a totally different subject - if they were provided to academic bright students from low income families who in normal circumstances could not afford to attend such a school then it would be hard to argue against. Remember schools are educational establishments not sport training centres. If they are for students based on their perceived football ability, regardless of their academic ability or family income; I suggest we have lost the plot.

I won't comment on your statement that St Pats is an elite school, I will let that go through to the keeper.

Fill me it again, what are the positives of scholarships based on perceived sporting ability?

M4E while I agree with you about Pats and the way they conduct their operations in the relentless pursuit for Schoolboy Rugby League supremacy, having killed of MCS rugby league I don't think their are comparisons with GPS and their current situation. Grammar and High changed their approach to sport with the change of bosses which resulted in a move away from rugby. High were still recruiting recently for their basketball program. Shore are well known for their chasing rowing titles by whatever means necessary, kings in athletics etc. Kurtley Beale arrived at Joeys a few years back now and was quickly in first XV. They have all used the system to their advantage at some point. Newington leading into their 150th were quite aggressive while Scots have taken it to another level, although recent developments may curtail this. Pats on the other hand as you mentioned do so while others don't very different. They stockpile at others detriment. As noted they have Rep players who can't make their schoolboy team. I don't understand why a talented player would go there to miss out on the team completely. I get elite schools as they offer facilities and coaching which can further enhance a players skill. Given the small percentage that actually make it I have no problem with sport high schools or Pats for that point developing the future stars in a conducive environment although stockpiling talent and their approach has had a negative effect on MCS and a number of talented payers who mistakenly went there with visions of first team footy and improvement.

 

[magpie4ever]

M4E while I agree with you about Pats and the way they conduct their operations in the relentless pursuit for Schoolboy Rugby League supremacy having killed of MCS rugby league and don't think their are comparisons with GPS and their current situation. Grammar and High changed their approach to sport with the change of bosses which resulted in a move away from rugby. High we're still recruiting recently for their basketball program. Shore are well known for their chasing rowing titles by whatever means necessary, kings in athletics etc. Kurtley Beale arrived at Joeys a few years back now and was quickly in first XV. They have all used the system to their advantage at some point. Newington leading into their 150th seem to be quite aggressive while Scots have taken it to another level, although recent developments may curtail this. Pats on the other hand as you mentioned do so while others don't very different.

Halfback,

The only reason I provided a brief synopsis about GPS rugby was a poster mentioned Pats as an elite school alongside the GPS ones; so I provided a brief summary of the GPS arms race and its negative effect on a 100+ year competition. It was not meant to be a direct comparison. Just a summary of what the continual buy-in of talented players can do to the competitiveness of a competition and the effect it has on a sport, in general.

I have heard about the current GPS basketball situation where 5 of the schools have refused to play Scots due to their "guns for hire" scholarship policy.

St Pats have created a situation where their main competition in the MCS comes from their 2nd and 3rd teams plus occasionally from St Gregs.

I'm still waiting on critics of my comments to answer the following: what would the players from St Pats and Farrer Ag College have learnt from the 88-0 flogging?

 

[Sydney Knight]

Halfback,


I have heard about the current GPS basketball situation where 5 of the schools have refused to play Scots due to their "guns for hire" scholarship policy.

Is it really that prestigious in Australia to win the school Basketball tournaments.

Not sure why they would bother giving free 30k a year schooling to 7 foot tall dudes?

 

[magpie4ever]

Is it really that prestigious in Australia to win the school Basketball tournaments.

Not sure why they would bother giving free 30k a year schooling to 7 foot tall dudes?

Bloody good question. I believe their critics within the GPS association talk of world sports dominance.

Shows how ridiculous offering sporting scholarships (under the table) can become.

 

[Keenan]

I'm still waiting on critics of my comments to answer the following: what would the players from St Pats and Farrer Ag College have learnt from the 88-0 flogging?[/QUOTE]

It seems you are quite critical of St Pats in particular.In answering your question Farrer were beaten 60 odd points last season as opposed to 88 this season.And last years squad were made up of quite a few 16 year olds.It maybe St Pats improved a whole lot or Farrer hadn't.

Whichever the case,your distaste for St Pats is quite livid.They were beaten by a great side in Keebra this year but to make back to back GFs is not an easy feat as there are many great football schools who are in the same league as St Pats & Keebra.And all with the same recruitment process aimed at attracting talented kids.And also why kids choose to go attend these schools even if they don't make the A squad is no fault of the schools.

 

[magpie4ever]

It seems you are quite critical of St Pats in particular.In answering your question Farrer were beaten 60 odd points last season as opposed to 88 this season.And last years squad were made up of quite a few 16 year olds.It maybe St Pats improved a whole lot or Farrer hadn't.

Whichever the case,your distaste for St Pats is quite livid.They were beaten by a great side in Keebra this year but to make back to back GFs is not an easy feat as there are many great football schools who are in the same league as St Pats & Keebra.And all with the same recruitment process aimed at attracting talented kids.And also why kids choose to go attend these schools even if they don't make the A squad is no fault of the schools.

Mate, I'm not have a go at your son or anyone elses son. The school is or realistically has destroyed the MCS comp by importing the talent far and wide. It is about the ego of a few teachers.

Please list these schools - and please don't list the public sport high schools as rightly or wrongly (which I believe) were set up for said purpose. So, please name these schools.

You still didn't answer my question: what would the players from St Pats and Farrer Ag College have learnt from the 88-0 flogging?

 

[Keenan]

It seems that the only school you constantly aim your tirade at is St Pats...Was your son not offered a scholarship?

 

[magpie4ever]

It seems that the only school you constantly aim your tirade at is St Pats...Was your son not offered a scholarship?

Read my posts - I took a stick to the Sport High Schools, Keebra Park, the GPS schools as well as St Pats.

Are you going to name the schools re: your previous post and the following question: what would the players from St Pats and Farrer Ag College have learnt from the 88-0 flogging?

Or are you just going to attempt to attack me?

 

[Keenan]

I'm not attacking you at all...in all seriousness,Farrer need to improve their Rugby League programme in order to compete.You can't blame St Pats for the scorelne for as far as that game was concerned,they did not field all there A squad I believe.

So I ask you then how you would go about making all schools more competetitive if kids are choosing to go to certain schools.Even if they are not making the A squad?

 

[magpie4ever]

I'm not attacking you at all...in all seriousness,Farrer need to improve their Rugby League programme in order to compete.You can't blame St Pats for the scorelne for as far as that game was concerned,they did not field all there A squad I believe.

So I ask you then how you would go about making all schools more competetitive if kids are choosing to go to certain schools.Even if they are not making the A squad?

For one, no specialised Sport High Schools - they have not worked (see my 1st post) and done extreme damage to remaining (majority of) normal state high schools with regard to competitive sport comps & generally non-competitive exercise for their pupils. As said earlier the state system has been able to wash their hands of this educational obligation.

Two, no sport scholarships to any schools (private or public) - open or under the table.

No sports training set up like Keebra Park, schools are educational institiutions; not specialised sport training centres.

Talented young footballers would still by looked after but by their district clubs(re: additional training etc), outside of the school set up and school hours.

Therefore, schools would have some good years in local, district , state and national comps and some not so good years, as in the past - just natural selection, not who can import the most.

Educators (including Mr R and Mr P at St Pats) need to accept this statement: Sport is only an adjunct to education at school level and not an end in itself. Academic performance is an end in itself and is not adjunct but the core of the schooling process.

 

[Keenan]

For one, no specialised Sport High Schools - they have not worked (see my 1st post) and done extreme damage to remaining (majority of) normal state high schools with regard to competitive sport comps & generally non-competitive exercise for their pupils. As said earlier the state system has been able to wash their hands of this educational obligation.

Two, no sport scholarships to any schools (private or public) - open or under the table.

No sports training set up like Keebra Park, schools are educational institiutions; not specialised sport training centres.

Talented young footballers would still by looked after but by their district clubs(re: additional training etc), outside of the school set up and school hours.

Therefore, schools would have some good years in local, district , state and national comps and some not so good years, as in the past - just natural selection, not who can import the most.

I agree that would be ideal & the fairest way,as well as allowing kids of all talent to participate.
Any participation will only benefit our young kids,but as you have said the system needs to change.But I'm sure we can both agree,sadly it has become a business as Nrl clubs are also paying the tuition fees of these kids to attend such schools.As with St Pats,you will always see their club representatives from Parramatta,Penrith & the like present at games.

 

[magpie4ever]

I agree that would be ideal & the fairest way,as well as allowing kids of all talent to participate.
Any participation will only benefit our young kids,but as you have said the system needs to change.But I'm sure we can both agree,sadly it has become a business as Nrl clubs are also paying the tuition fees of these kids to attend such schools.As with St Pats,you will always see their club representatives from Parramatta,Penrith & the like present at games.

Then the educators and legislators (if required) need to take NRL, AFL, ARU and Cricket Australia etc etc out of the equation; barred from the education system (because it does not work - rugby union and cricket, at an all time lows). Outside of school hours - fine, but no involvement while these teenagers are at school or involved in school sport.

 

[Y2Eel]

The teams would have learnt bugger all from the flogging.. But why do you care you haven't seen a game of "MCS" all year..

St Gregs have been doing this for a bloody long time why dont you have a go at them?

I remember watching Artie Beetson out at St Gregs one day scouting all the good school players, playing along side each other...

Alot of Parra and Penrith players Go to St Pats those clubs wouldn't send their players to a school that does not have a proper footballing program.. or should they Spend a shit load on their players to have them go to a school that is flogged by 88 points?

St Doms also has Scholarships...

 

[Y2Eel]

Then the educators and legislators (if required) need to take NRL, AFL, ARU and Cricket Australia etc etc out of the equation; barred from the education system (because it does not work - rugby union and cricket, at an all time lows). Outside of school hours - fine, but no involvement while these teenagers are at school or involved in school sport.

It didnt work before NRL clubs got more involved in schools..

I was at St Pats before scholarships football setup and what not... There was alot of talented kids but they had no motivation social life ruined most of them.. If they had a better system more to lose/gain i bet a few more would have made it into the NRL...

 

[magpie4ever]

The teams would have learnt bugger all from the flogging.. But why do you care you haven't seen a game of "MCS" all year..

St Gregs have been doing this for a bloody long time why dont you have a go at them?

I remember watching Artie Beetson out at St Gregs one day scouting all the good school players, playing along side each other...

Alot of Parra and Penrith players Go to St Pats those clubs wouldn't send their players to a school that does not have a proper footballing program.. or should they Spend a shit load on their players to have them go to a school that is flogged by 88 points?

St Doms also has Scholarships...

1: How the f**k would you know

2: St Gregs have only got back into it (after their well publicised attempt at world domination in the 80's and early 90s) - I would say to counter St Pats attempt at their current attempt at world domination.

3: Read my post above: this is an educational system, sports is a very small part of it (adjunct). Tell the sport bodies I mentioned in the post above - too f**k off - all schools are educational institutions; not special sport training centres.

4. Well, their scholarship to one well known junior footballer (i'm sure, Kennan knows who I mean) was not enough to stop this talented junior footballer swapping scholarships and schools from Doms to Pats.

 

[magpie4ever]

It didnt work before NRL clubs got more involved in schools..

I was at St Pats before scholarships football setup and what not... There was alot of talented kids but they had no motivation social life ruined most of them.. If they had a better system more to lose/gain i bet a few more would have made it into the NRL...

You are a bit of a dope, do you believe all the scholarship holders and other talented footballers at Pats have made it to the NRL or a professional level.

I assure you not, leaving many of these kids and their families extremely disappointed.

 

[R2Coupe]

Vic:

Chris Lawrence
Tim Simona
Keith Lulia
Pat Richards
Tim Moltzen
Curtis Sironen

Have all played centre in the NRL.

David Nofoaluma
Taqele Naiyaravaro
Blake Austin

Have all played centre in lower grades.

I know it's not a lot of dedicated centres but it's not like we're short of options. He's certainly in with a shot if he sets the world on fire. Satterthwaite is more of a winger isn't he? And Seve is obviously better than Heleta since they played in the same high school side and Seve got the Peter Sterling medal.

Satterthwaite is a centre who is big and fast. Heleta is a talent and a huge gain for WTs. He plays left centre, as does Satterthwaite. Seve plays right centre.

Lawrence and Simona are the only genuine NRL centres in your list. Lulia is a reserve grader, Richards, Moltzen and Sironen are not centres.