Gold Coast Bears/Nth Sydney/Gosford

[Perth Red]

The one thing they have in common is that half of those clubs in each over saturated market are failing, some badly.

 

[Stallion]

The one thing they have in common is that half of those clubs in each over saturated market are failing, some badly.

Another few things they have in common is longtime market recognition, junior leagues and generational with Australia wide support!

 

[Perth Red]

and still failing due to over stauration

 

[Stallion]

and still failing due to over stauration

What u call/refer to as 'over' saturation (in my books "presence") is a strength and not a liability. We fundamentally differ PR. Your logic leading to implosion of the code and my logic leading to exponential growth within Sydney and outside of Sydney. One is the right path the other is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Stormwarrior82]

What u call/refer to as 'over' saturation (in my books "presence") is a strength and not a liability. We fundamentally differ PR. Your logic leading to implosion of the code and my logic leading to exponential growth within Sydney and outside of Sydney. One is the right path the other is a recipe for disaster.

Your logic above does not lead to exponential growth to outside of Sydney. How would adding further Sydney clubs help young Tom in Perth or little sam in Brisbane? Ok so some “people” including me think Sydney is over saturated. You think rugby league just has a presence in Sydney (nsw). Brisbane having 1 team is that presence or under saturated? Perth not having a team, is that presence or ok? Nz having 1 team, is that presence or under saturated? The point is that any figures you use, show that of all current states, nsw has by far the easiest chance of improving and keeping kids and fans engaged. The clubs just need to actually have a crack, stop spending money of strappers and masseuses and engage the local community.

 

[Perth Red]

There are only two cities in the world with this amount of top tier clubs, and they are both facing the same unsustainable issues. Coincidence?

 

[Stallion]

There are only two cities in the world with this amount of top tier clubs, and they are both facing the same unsustainable issues. Coincidence?

Funnily enough one code is not going down the destruction/implosion path. The AFL is seen as progressive and respectful with knowledge that well established clubs are an asset. Whereas our code have people like yourself advocating reduction/dilution of clubs in a city of Sydney when less top flight RL clubs exist and their is a million more people? Amazing lack of common sense and complete ignorance with disrespect of generations of fans of such clubs.These clubs have widespread established support outside of Sydney to compound the flawed logic you follow. Do you realise such support leaves the game when a club goes?Look at the damage to RL in the North Sydney area and the multitude of fans that have abandoned rugby league as a result of this clubs demise! You will find specific factors of Australia's tyrrany of distance , concentrated major city populations and relatively sparse populations over a massive land base is unique to Australia. Yet you dismiss such a scenario? Shame on you consistently being ignorant and looking to damage RL. The code is losing its dominance and meaningful direction due these spurilous thoughts. Poor administration in various levels within the code is also a factor, especially in local leagues and this flowing onto junior development in such areas. All of this is linked and is detrimentally affecting RL as a result. Your implosion talk is just puttng another knife in the back of a great and well established Australian football code.

 

[Stallion]

Your logic above does not lead to exponential growth to outside of Sydney. How would adding further Sydney clubs help young Tom in Perth or little sam in Brisbane? Ok so some “people” including me think Sydney is over saturated. You think rugby league just has a presence in Sydney (nsw). Brisbane having 1 team is that presence or under saturated? Perth not having a team, is that presence or ok? Nz having 1 team, is that presence or under saturated? The point is that any figures you use, show that of all current states, nsw has by far the easiest chance of improving and keeping kids and fans engaged. The clubs just need to actually have a crack, stop spending money of strappers and masseuses and engage the local community.

Sydney should maintain all top flight clubs and revisit the Bears on the Central Coast. THAT'S what should happen! At no stage have I not supported additional clubs elsewhere yet you intimate this "logic". Brisbane should have had another top flight club years ago but greed and self interest from the Broncos have ruined that scenario. The fans of the clubs outside of Sydney have an admiration and respect for the Sydney clubs that you have sadly dismissed and discounted. This, believe it or not, harnesses an exponential growth through notoriety and familiarity which is evident en masse in these longstanding and well known Sydney clubs you want to dismantle. Ignorance holds true to your "logic"!

 

[Perth Red]

Funnily enough one code is not going down the destruction/implosion path. The AFL is seen as progressive and respectful with knowledge that well established clubs are an asset. Whereas our code have people like yourself advocating reduction/dilution of clubs in a city of Sydney when less top flight RL clubs exist and their is a million more people? Amazing lack of common sense and complete ignorance with disrespect of generations of fans of such clubs.These clubs have widespread established support outside of Sydney to compound the flawed logic you follow. Do you realise such support leaves the game when a club goes?Look at the damage to RL in the North Sydney area and the multitude of fans that have abandoned rugby league as a result of this clubs demise! You will find specific factors of Australia's tyrrany of distance , concentrated major city populations and relatively sparse populations over a massive land base is unique to Australia. Yet you dismiss such a scenario? Shame on you consistently being ignorant and looking to damage RL. The code is losing its dominance and meaningful direction due these spurilous thoughts. Poor administration in various levels within the code is also a factor, especially in local leagues and this flowing onto junior development in such areas. All of this is linked and is detrimentally affecting RL as a result. Your implosion talk is just puttng another knife in the back of a great and well established Australian football code.

Regardless the fact remains oversatiration is making clubs in both markets unviable. The leagues throwing more and more money at them to keep them from going bust is just Papering over the cracks.

Canada has similiar geography and population spread but you dont see nine clubs in Toronto in their main sport

 

[Stallion]

Regardless the fact remains oversatiration is making clubs in both markets unviable. The leagues throwing more and more money at them to keep them from going bust is just Papering over the cracks.

Canada has similiar geography and population spread but you dont see nine clubs in Toronto in their main sport

Thats bullshit! Totally different scenario. We are talking about a nation that has two major football codes emanating out of a separate major capital city.. A fact you continue to ignore is that these city based clubs are well established and have supporter bases all over Australia. This has largely been attributed to the tv era which catapulted both these codes established clubs into the greater public eye. This fact doesn't seem to connect in your thinking? When you carve such clubs you carve not only established support but also the credibility and standing of the competition in the eyes of neutral fans and give joy to those whom dislike the code. And their are plenty out there whom hold contempt and disdain for rugbyleague. Rightly or wrongly. All your logic does is expedite the demise of the code that once enjoyed its established club advantage. Shame on you PR!

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

What u call/refer to as 'over' saturation (in my books "presence") is a strength and not a liability. We fundamentally differ PR. Your logic leading to implosion of the code and my logic leading to exponential growth within Sydney and outside of Sydney. One is the right path the other is a recipe for disaster.

I dont think you know what "Exponential" means....

Do you really want 30+ clubs in the NRL?

Sydney should maintain all top flight clubs and revisit the Bears on the Central Coast. THAT'S what should happen! At no stage have I not supported additional clubs elsewhere yet you intimate this "logic". Brisbane should have had another top flight club years ago but greed and self interest from the Broncos have ruined that scenario. The fans of the clubs outside of Sydney have an admiration and respect for the Sydney clubs that you have sadly dismissed and discounted. This, believe it or not, harnesses an exponential growth through notoriety and familiarity which is evident en masse in these longstanding and well known Sydney clubs you want to dismantle. Ignorance holds true to your "logic"!

Seriously, do you want 30+ teams? How many teams is the right amount?

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Funnily enough one code is not going down the destruction/implosion path. The AFL is seen as progressive and respectful with knowledge that well established clubs are an asset. Whereas our code have people like yourself advocating reduction/dilution of clubs in a city of Sydney when less top flight RL clubs exist and their is a million more people? Amazing lack of common sense and complete ignorance with disrespect of generations of fans of such clubs.These clubs have widespread established support outside of Sydney to compound the flawed logic you follow. Do you realise such support leaves the game when a club goes?Look at the damage to RL in the North Sydney area and the multitude of fans that have abandoned rugby league as a result of this clubs demise! You will find specific factors of Australia's tyrrany of distance , concentrated major city populations and relatively sparse populations over a massive land base is unique to Australia. Yet you dismiss such a scenario? Shame on you consistently being ignorant and looking to damage RL. The code is losing its dominance and meaningful direction due these spurilous thoughts. Poor administration in various levels within the code is also a factor, especially in local leagues and this flowing onto junior development in such areas. All of this is linked and is detrimentally affecting RL as a result. Your implosion talk is just puttng another knife in the back of a great and well established Australian football code.

The VFL have also totally centralised all of their Melbourne clubs to 2 stadiums?

Do you support this too? because it is the centre of any success their 10 Melbourne teams hare having.

Or will you just cherrypick facts to suit your arguement....

 

[Stallion]

I dont think you know what "Exponential" means....

Do you really want 30+ clubs in the NRL?



Seriously, do you want 30+ teams? How many teams is the right amount?

I would suggest over time 24 teams. Ideally all existing clubs with a few name changes (back to iconic names using Balmain coupled with Campbelltown etc.) Definitely two clubs in each capital city outside of NSW plus regional teams. An isolated regional team like the Cowboys may have a rival regional sibling as well. But definitely all state capital cities with two teams . Sydney/Gosford/Wollongong with 10.

 

[Perth Red]

I would suggest over time 24 teams. Ideally all existing clubs with a few name changes (back to iconic names using Balmain coupled with Campbelltown etc.) Definitely two clubs in each capital city outside of NSW plus regional teams. An isolated regional team like the Cowboys may have a rival regional sibling as well. But definitely all state capital cities with two teams . Sydney/Gosford/Wollongong with 10.

And how would you suggest the NRL will pay for these 24 teams? Smaller grants to each, less funding to grassroots, lower salary cap? At next years grant cost that would be $312million plus increased costs of running a league that is 8 teams larger. Basically about 80% of the NRL's revenue for a 24 team comp

 

[Stallion]

The VFL have also totally centralised all of their Melbourne clubs to 2 stadiums?

Do you support this too? because it is the centre of any success their 10 Melbourne teams hare having.

Or will you just cherrypick facts to suit your arguement....

Horses for courses mate! The geography of Melbourne is totally different to Sydney's. They have a centralized transport system that far outperforms Sydney. Sydney is completely different to travel in. I spoke to a guy from Melbourne and he actually likes the fact you can attend a suburban ground to watch the NRL in Sydney. It has cultural and atmospere laden pluses you don't understand . The fact remains there are 10 AFL clubs in Melbourne and 9 NRL clubs in Sydney and Wollongong with at least a million more potential fans in the Sydney/Wollongong area. Figure it out! Then again you have plenty of time to refute reality and the numbers plus cultural significance? So I doubt you will!

 

[Stallion]

And how would you suggest the NRL will pay for these 24 teams? Smaller grants to each, less funding to grassroots, lower salary cap? At next years grant cost that would be $312million plus increased costs of running a league that is 8 teams larger. Basically about 80% of the NRL's revenue for a 24 team comp[/QUOTE

Greater amounr of clubs should create greater income revenues. This if done properly is achievable. But dudes like you dont have respect for the game or a belief it can be attractive to new audiences. I do.

 

[Stallion]

And how would you suggest the NRL will pay for these 24 teams? Smaller grants to each, less funding to grassroots, lower salary cap? At next years grant cost that would be $312million plus increased costs of running a league that is 8 teams larger. Basically about 80% of the NRL's revenue for a 24 team comp

The blinkered outlook does not sit well with you PR. Be more positive and as you have mentioned before more revenues should be forthcoming with more smartly introduced (or reintroduced) clubs.

 

[Perth Red]

The blinkered outlook does not sit well with you PR. Be more positive and as you have mentioned before more revenues should be forthcoming with more smartly introduced (or reintroduced) clubs.

Nice dodge but how will it be paid for? You' re looking at around $30million per extra game (2 clubs), so that's $120mill a year for your "vision". Fascinated to know how you think the NRL will generate an extra $120mill a year to accommodate this growth whilst maintaining the status quo of current unviable clubs?

"Greater amount of clubs should create greater income revenues" is not much of a business case you have put forward to totally alter the NRL's conservative mindset re expansion!

 

[Perth Red]

Horses for courses mate! The geography of Melbourne is totally different to Sydney's. They have a centralized transport system that far outperforms Sydney. Sydney is completely different to travel in. I spoke to a guy from Melbourne and he actually likes the fact you can attend a suburban ground to watch the NRL in Sydney. It has cultural and atmospere laden pluses you don't understand . The fact remains there are 10 AFL clubs in Melbourne and 9 NRL clubs in Sydney and Wollongong with at least a million more potential fans in the Sydney/Wollongong area. Figure it out! Then again you have plenty of time to refute reality and the numbers plus cultural significance? So I doubt you will!

Sadly the amount of pathetic crowds at Sydney suburban grounds is evidence enough that fans don't agree with you and would rather stay home.

Nine clubs in Melbourne, we've established Geelong is not a suburb of Melbourne anymore than Newcastle is a suburb of Sydney! And those nine Melbourne clubs face the same issues as NRL's oversaturation with 3 or 4 of them simply not viable and only surviving due to being propped up by the other clubs.

Take a look at grant distributions, which are based on clubs ability to generate its own income. After the expansion areas the next on the list are Melbourne clubs effected by oversaturation. Basically out of the top ten struggling clubs in 2016 4 were expansion clubs and all but one of the rest where Melbourne clubs despite this being the heart of the game and all the tradition in the world. Kind of tells you something! Sydney and Melbourne are the same, a handful of the strongest clubs in the comp and the rest struggling due to oversaturation and not enough fans or corporates.


1. GWS Giant 21,548,374 (Exp)
2. St Kilda 18,566,589 (Melb)
3. Brisbane Lions 17,532,922 (Exp)
4. Gold Coast Suns 17,194,594 (Exp)
5. Western Bulldogs 17,610,181 (Melb)
6. North Melbourne 15,022,303 (Melb)
7. Melbourne 14,799,452 (Melb)
8. Port Adelaide 13,206,665
9. Sydney Swans 12,488,957 (Exp)
10. Richmond 12,358,925 (Melb)

 

[Stallion]

Sadly the amount of pathetic crowds at Sydney suburban grounds is evidence enough that fans don't agree with you and would rather stay home.

Nine clubs in Melbourne, we've established Geelong is not a suburb of Melbourne anymore than Newcastle is a suburb of Sydney! And those nine Melbourne clubs face the same issues as NRL's oversaturation with 3 or 4 of them simply not viable and only surviving due to being propped up by the other clubs.

Take a look at grant distributions, which are based on clubs ability to generate its own income. After the expansion areas the next on the list are Melbourne clubs effected by oversaturation. Basically out of the top ten struggling clubs in 2016 4 were expansion clubs and all but one of the rest where Melbourne clubs despite this being the heart of the game and all the tradition in the world. Kind of tells you something! Sydney and Melbourne are the same, a handful of the strongest clubs in the comp and the rest struggling due to oversaturation and not enough fans or corporates.


1. GWS Giant 21,548,374 (Exp)
2. St Kilda 18,566,589 (Melb)
3. Brisbane Lions 17,532,922 (Exp)
4. Gold Coast Suns 17,194,594 (Exp)
5. Western Bulldogs 17,610,181 (Melb)
6. North Melbourne 15,022,303 (Melb)
7. Melbourne 14,799,452 (Melb)
8. Port Adelaide 13,206,665
9. Sydney Swans 12,488,957 (Exp)
10. Richmond 12,358,925 (Melb)

You have conveniently forgotten its Sydney and Wollongong with NRL clubs . Two major NSW cities and you discount the Illawarra. Under your logic 8.5 NRL clubs reside in Sydney teams. You can put up as much of a facade as you like PR. You will if going down your path is adopted, destroy the code and strength in Australias largest city and the largest capital city that happens to proclaim rugby league as its main game? Your logic would prove disastrous and ultimately see the code fall like pack of cards elsewhere included. You continually ignore the attractiveness of Sydney based clubs to fans outside of Sydney! But you don't care. I've been warned about your dribble and it is just that DRIBBLE! It's tiring as well. I suspect you may be a plant from another code! ? You are advocating disaster for this great code and continue to do. so.