Gold Coast Bears/Nth Sydney/Gosford

[Stallion]

I'd call it recklessly incompetent - they are effectively driving a wedge between Sydney and interstate fans.

The NRL's lack of strategic vision/intention with an eye to additional clubs is a major problem for this competition going forward. This (additional clubs)will improve the games outlook. Yet some very common sense additions are seemingly not being considered or avoided? It's sad such a great football code is being constrained. The code is also suffering from containment in the international sphere.

 

[flippikat]

The NRL's lack of strategic vision/intention with an eye to additional clubs is a major problem for this competition going forward. This (additional clubs)will improve the games outlook. Yet some very common sense additions are seemingly not being considered or avoided? It's sad such a great football code is being constrained. The code is also suffering from containment in the international sphere.

The thing is, they could satisfy both sides of the fanbase by unveiling a definitive expansion plan for the next 10 years (at NRL *and* NSW/Qld cup levels to ensure growth at top and bottom of the tree), co-ordinate the 'one off games' taken to places like Darwin & Cairns.. hell even Tasmania - that aren't capable of sustaining their own NRL team yet (and include Adalaide to get a buzz going before they get their team), and plan raising existing club grants from the TV revenue from those extra games.

I've had enough of this sledging between Sydney and interstate fans. It's time we unite to demand better from the NRL.

 

[Stallion]

The thing is, they could satisfy both sides of the fanbase by unveiling a definitive expansion plan for the next 10 years (at NRL *and* NSW/Qld cup levels to ensure growth at top and bottom of the tree), co-ordinate the 'one off games' taken to places like Darwin & Cairns.. hell even Tasmania - that aren't capable of sustaining their own NRL team yet (and include Adalaide to get a buzz going before they get their team), and plan raising existing club grants from the TV revenue from those extra games.


I've had enough of this sledging between Sydney and interstate fans. It's time we unite to demand better from the NRL.

It's more than that. We do have genuine ignoramuses still advocating implosion rather than genuine expansion thru additional clubs. It's the "whiteant" agenda that keeps raring its diabolical and ignorant logic. Their are some real dummies out there or its deliberate undermining of the code?

 

[flippikat]

Its more than that. We do have genuine ignoramus still advocating implosion rather than genuine expansion thru additional clubs. Its the "whiteant" agenda that keeos raring its diabolical and ignorant logic. Their are some real dummies out there or its deliberate undermining of the code?

To be honest, I used to be in the camp calling for Sydney clubs to be culled for the "Greater Good" - but seeing how the AFL approached the issue of expansion has made me rethink that.

If we expand with 2 teams first - I propose Brisbane2 (open it to bids) and Perth as no-brainers to maximize revenue growth, AND put grants in place to give every club the best chance to succeed financially, what's wrong with that?

It seems to have worked in AFL.

The funny thing is that two clubs that had to be taken over by the NRL were Gold Coast and Newcastle - not Sydney clubs.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Stallions not going to like that lol

Ha ha, no he didn't - you picked it like a dirty nose

 

[Stallion]

To be honest, I used to be in the camp calling for Sydney clubs to be culled for the "Greater Good" - but seeing how the AFL approached the issue of expansion has made me rethink that.

If we expand with 2 teams first - I propose Brisbane2 (open it to bids) and Perth as no-brainers to maximize revenue growth, AND put grants in place to give every club the best chance to succeed financially, what's wrong with that?

It seems to have worked in AFL.

The funny thing is that two clubs that had to be taken over by the NRL were Gold Coast and Newcastle - not Sydney clubs.

You show intelligence in seeing the example in front of our very eyes in AFL. Your decency in changing and realising the dangers of imploding the code in Sydney is admirable and shows logic covers your thinking. For others this is not so!

 

[Perth Red]

To be honest, I used to be in the camp calling for Sydney clubs to be culled for the "Greater Good" - but seeing how the AFL approached the issue of expansion has made me rethink that.

If we expand with 2 teams first - I propose Brisbane2 (open it to bids) and Perth as no-brainers to maximize revenue growth, AND put grants in place to give every club the best chance to succeed financially, what's wrong with that?

It seems to have worked in AFL.

The funny thing is that two clubs that had to be taken over by the NRL were Gold Coast and Newcastle - not Sydney clubs.

It worked (for now) in the AFL because:
1. They introduced a ticket tax on popular clubs
2. They introduced variable grants so rich clubs could bankroll struggling and expansion clubs
3. They have a much bigger revenue stream
4. They don't have myopic conservative leaders

Sadly NRL does not and will never have most of these things to be in a situation where they can slice the pie differently.

I'll always back a 20 team 19 game season as my preferred choice for the future of NRL but not happy to just sit around while the game stagnates and misses opportunities to grow for the next 13 years like we have for the last 13.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Ideally, so that we have financial strength now but also have seeds planted for future growth, the comp would look like this:


Queensland:

North QLD
Brisbane
Brisbane 2
Gold Coast

Underpinned by the strong QRL Comp that exists now – this solidifies RL as the number 1 game in QLD and simultaneously makes it very hard for RU and AFL to get any traction because realistically SEQ is the only option for either of them and we would have it cornered with our three clubs and a strong QRL.

New South Wales (this is going to be controversial):

Regional:

Newcastle
Roosters - Central Coast
St.George Illawarra – Woollongong

Sydney:

Souths – new ANZ Stadium
Paramatta – new Paramatta Stadium
Canterbury – new ANZ Stadium
Wests Tigers – new ANZ Stadium (but embracing Campbeltown as their region and training base)
Penrith – Penrith
Cronulla – SCG Group Stadium
Manly – I’ve got no idea, they need to somehow sort Brookevale out. ANZ or Allianz don’t seem to be an option for them

This removes two clubs from Sydney but keeps their brands in the top flight and the NRL should then sort out an away game membership for their Sydney based fans so that they can still see them play regularly – minimal hurt and damage to the game.

This is to be underpinned by a strong NSW Cup and an NRL / NSWRL joint program of fan engagement in all areas of NSW with aggressive moves into North and Eastern Sydney to re-engage fans.

Rest of Australia:

Canberra
Melbourne
Perth

International:

Warriors – NRL
PNG – QLD Cup
Fiji – NSW Cup
NZ2 – NSW Cup

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

^^^

Yeh, honestly i think the game can get away with 9 Sydney clubs. What shits me is that they are run terribly and treated like protected species. We keep talking about "expansion after the sydney clubs are secure", but where is the push to secure the Sydney clubs?

Manly are in a rundown shithole of a ground with NO prospect of redevelopment
Wests spread themselves across 3-5 grounds every year. No one can say where they are actually meant to represent.
StGeorge arent much better than Wests with their stadium spread, and f*ck me they like to ignore Wollongong
Roosters really need to decide if they are gonna commit to the CC. THey clearly dont have THAT much support around Moore Park.

Clubs cry poor and demand more money, yet EVERY YEAR they do exactly what they did the last year. They are in a cycle of failure which they actively protect because "tradition.....".

 

[Stallion]

It worked (for now) in the AFL because:
1. They introduced a ticket tax on popular clubs
2. They introduced variable grants so rich clubs could bankroll struggling and expansion clubs
3. They have a much bigger revenue stream
4. They don't have myopic conservative leaders

Sadly NRL does not and will never have most of these things to be in a situation where they can slice the pie differently.

I'll always back a 20 team 19 game season as my preferred choice for the future of NRL but not happy to just sit around while the game stagnates and misses opportunities to grow for the next 13 years like we have for the last 13.

About time you came good! However imploding the game in Sydney gets you a destroyed competition. So you are welcome to hook into the obviously underwhelming strategists the NRL has in its ranks. Eventually (and I know its frustrating) someone will aim up. Remember Souths Sydney came back from the dead. Shear weight of public opinion and lobbying will do more good for the game than carving up this great league.

 

[flippikat]

It worked (for now) in the AFL because:
1. They introduced a ticket tax on popular clubs
2. They introduced variable grants so rich clubs could bankroll struggling and expansion clubs
3. They have a much bigger revenue stream
4. They don't have myopic conservative leaders

Sadly NRL does not and will never have most of these things to be in a situation where they can slice the pie differently.

Never say never. It just takes a leader with guts to take a stand for footy socialism (for lack of a better phrase).

We already have a salary cap, which is an equalisation rule.

A draft is unworkable for the NRL because there are other competitions (rugby Union, Superleague) that juniors can take their skills to & earn just as much money (or more), and chose their own team. AFL and American sports can get away with a draft because they basically are a captive industry for their players. (Wanna play Basketball outside the NBA? Good luck trying to earn NBA-sized money...)

So that leaves us with wealth redistribution. That's part of the real world. The rich pay more tax so society as a whole - especially the most vulnerable - benefit.

 

[flippikat]

^^^

Yeh, honestly i think the game can get away with 9 Sydney clubs. What shits me is that they are run terribly and treated like protected species. We keep talking about "expansion after the sydney clubs are secure", but where is the push to secure the Sydney clubs?

Manly are in a rundown shithole of a ground with NO prospect of redevelopment
Wests spread themselves across 3-5 grounds every year. No one can say where they are actually meant to represent.
StGeorge arent much better than Wests with their stadium spread, and f*ck me they like to ignore Wollongong
Roosters really need to decide if they are gonna commit to the CC. THey clearly dont have THAT much support around Moore Park.

Clubs cry poor and demand more money, yet EVERY YEAR they do exactly what they did the last year. They are in a cycle of failure which they actively protect because "tradition.....".

I think you raise good points about the 4 most vulnerable Sydney clubs, and if the NRL adopts the sort of wealth redistribution strategy the AFL has, some of these issues could be resolved.

It might need some conditions put on additional funding, but it's a way for the NRL to get what they want. For instance, giving money to the Tigers for a Campbelltown upgrade provided they play a majority of home games there - that sort of thing.

The NRL needs to provide clarity not just on expansion, but how they see the Sydney map being carved up.

 

[Perth Red]

About time you came good! However imploding the game in Sydney gets you a destroyed competition. So you are welcone to hook into the obviously underwhelming strategists the NRL has in its ranks. Eventually (and I know its frustrating) someone will aim up. Remember Souths Sydney came back from the dead. Shear weight of public opinion and lobbying will do more good fir the game than carving up this great league.

Stagnation will hurt it much much more in the long term. When the Sydney clubs come good. I know even Cronulla eventually won a comp but waiting ofr Sydney clubs to come good is going to be a very long wait. IF pokies evert get the treatment ciggies and alcohol are now getting half of the Sydney clubs would fall over overnight. For me this MASSIVE grant increase they are getting is last chance saloon. If they are not finically sustainable in 3-4 years time with all this cash being thrown at them they never will be.

 

[Stallion]

Stagnation will hurt it much much more in the long term. When the Sydney clubs come good. I know even Cronulla eventually won a comp but waiting ofr Sydney clubs to come good is going to be a very long wait. IF pokies evert get the treatment ciggies and alcohol are now getting half of the Sydney clubs would fall over overnight. For me this MASSIVE grant increase they are getting is last chance saloon. If they are not finically sustainable in 3-4 years time with all this cash being thrown at them they never will be.

Missed the salient point PR! As rightly inferred before: its a cop out excuse to not proactively expand the game. Their are clearly incompetent dudes within the NRL not there in the interests of the code. If justice comes they should be weeded out and exposed for what they are : FRAUDS! I feel for the common sense additional clubs intent that should be in a NRL designated strategy and business plan now. The bad guys are clearly working within the administration. You just have to take the incompetence displayed in our recent world cup (plenty of NRL people involved) to give an idea that all is not running smoothly or smartly within rugby league.

 

[flippikat]

Stagnation will hurt it much much more in the long term. When the Sydney clubs come good. I know even Cronulla eventually won a comp but waiting ofr Sydney clubs to come good is going to be a very long wait. IF pokies evert get the treatment ciggies and alcohol are now getting half of the Sydney clubs would fall over overnight. For me this MASSIVE grant increase they are getting is last chance saloon. If they are not finically sustainable in 3-4 years time with all this cash being thrown at them they never will be.

If that happens, and we're faced with a couple of Sydney clubs hitting the financial wall in 3-4 years time, then surely it's on the club management to produce a turn-around plan.. or at very least an explaination as to why they struggled while other clubs thrived?

That's basic accountability, right there - and you can't face that, you don't deserve to be in a management position.

I see sense in the argument that if clubs hit the wall, from now on bailouts should come with conditions. For instance if Wests fall over, the NRL should demand that they choose ONE main home ground, for focus sake.

The smarter clubs are diversifying their income streams. Putting all your revenue eggs in one basket - whether it's pokies or property development or anything else - is just asking for trouble if that golden egg looses it's lustre.

 

[Perth Red]

Missed the salient point PR! As rightly inferred before: its a cop out excuse to not proactively expand the game. Their are clearly incompetent dudes within the NRL not there in the interests of the code. If justice comes they should be weeded out and exposed for what they are : FRAUDS! I feel for the common sense additional clubs intent that should be in a NRL designated strategy and business plan now. The bad guys are clearly working within the administration. You just have to take the incompetence displayed in our recent world cup (plenty of NRL people involved) to give an idea that all is not running smoothly or smartly within rugby league.

Thing is we have had three sets of leadership in the last 9 years since expansion became a very real possibility that have done nothing. Either that's because they genuinely cannot expand because existing clubs are so f**ked or we are just the unluckiest code in the world for attracting sht leadership?

Game is going nowhere in terms of growing interest in it, that will eventually make the game less valuable (see RU for a perfect example). Keep doing the same thing, expect the same results.

 

[Perth Red]

If that happens, and we're faced with a couple of Sydney clubs hitting the financial wall in 3-4 years time, then surely it's on the club management to produce a turn-around plan.. or at very least an explaination as to why they struggled while other clubs thrived?

That's basic accountability, right there - and you can't face that, you don't deserve to be in a management position.

I see sense in the argument that if clubs hit the wall, from now on bailouts should come with conditions. For instance if Wests fall over, the NRL should demand that they choose ONE main home ground, for focus sake.

The smarter clubs are diversifying their income streams. Putting all your revenue eggs in one basket - whether it's pokies or property development or anything else - is just asking for trouble if that golden egg looses it's lustre.

I think we've seen in St's and Tigers that there isn't much of a plan B, even the take over of Knights has firmly put their future back in the hands of a pokies den. South's would be the closest we have to really getting serious about moving away from pokies funding in Sydney but even they are at the whim of onfield performance now, a bad year on the field is leading to significant losses off it.

 

[Stallion]

Thing is we have had three sets of leadership in the last 9 years since expansion became a very real possibility that have done nothing. Either that's because they genuinely cannot expand because existing clubs are so f**ked or we are just the unluckiest code in the world for attracting sht leadership?

Game is going nowhere in terms of growing interest in it, that will eventually make the game less valuable (see RU for a perfect example). Keep doing the same thing, expect the same results.

Unluckiest code in the world in attracting crap leadership! That's the one. A well run competition doesn't neglect juniors, existing clubs, pricing, scheduling, poor media management, fritter away funds on consultants, and use incumbent clubs as an excuse for not having clearly needed and beneficial additional new clubs. Absolutely poor management in place. Hope Im proved wrong very soon! Apparently an NRL strategy statement was mooted to be announced this month?
Btw. I wouldn't be so down on RU. They are coming from a low base in reality anyway. That code has been a low attendance, low attraction for most decades since its inception. I believe it is manouvering to highjack rugby league playing ranks (happening in inner city Newcastle already) Its a devious code with devious intent and in reality the perceived loss of a team in a two bit competition is not the massive loss that game is seen to be suffering. The code gets small crowds and deservedly so. Its crap! They probably appreciated the extra publicity losing one of their little known franchises achieved. That code is trying to gain the popular market but is still ugly. Only the inneptness of rugby league at local and NRL level is giving union a rise in player numbers which is happening. Things like days of play for union being on a Saturday with many league clubs opting for Sundays at local level and the NRL continually sitting on its hands in genuinely growing rugby league all add to this dodgy code growing underneath rugby league's very eyes. I'm aware of the AFL intentions/activity as well however union are doing their bit behind the scenes as well.

 

[Perth Red]

The next 5 year NRL strategy has been written and is awaiting release to the plebians. Will be interesting to see what's in it after the massive failures of the last plan! I suspect it will be very light on in terms of targets and commitments

 

[Stallion]

The next 5 year NRL strategy has been written and is awaiting release to the plebians. Will be interesting to see what's in it after the massive failures of the last plan! I suspect it will be very light on in terms of targets and commitments

Crossing fingers and toes! But not holding my breath! Surely something positive is on its way! ? It's long overdue.