Graham Lowe's thoughts on Kiwi Aussies.

[playdaball]

Graham Lowe has come out and urged the NZRL to stop 'dredging up Aussie kids to play for NZ' such as Karmichael Hunt and Frank Pritchard.
Previously players such as Tyran Smith, Cayless Bros, Richard Swainn and Tony Caroll played (or currently play) for NZ despite having been born or lived a lot of their lives in Australia.
I think it should be 'horses for courses' as it appears that guys such as the Cayless' are proud to pull on the black jersey whereas Caroll was just using the NZRL to get a trip to the World Cup.
The NZRL needs to get better organised to establish which country players wish to represent (e.g. - Hunt). Perhaps in the case of Hunt and others they should declare before the start of the NRL season who they wish to play for? This would save a lot of embarrasment as well as giving the impression that International RL ranks below SOO (e.g. - Hunt's comments).
To a certain degree I agree with Lowe especially his comments about looking closer at local players - not Warriors.

 

[JJ]

The NZRL's approach to Hunt was a disgrace - they never asked him and should have. He's been in Aust since he was 12, and played for junior Ast teams. It's up to him who he plays for, but they should have asked him earlier. To suggest that Bennett etc were likely to apply pressure is just terrible.

All they had to do was ask - I don't see why a 17 yo kid should have to declare where his national allegence lies at the beginning of the season, he was probably just hoping to play a few first grade games.

As for Australians playing for the Kiwis - well, the Cayless brothers are clearly proud to wear the silver fern, so I have no problem with that. Swain too I think. Carroll, I didn't like, because he kept on about playing origin, so clearly his heart wasn't with the Kiwis- he just figured he wasn't good enough to play for Australia.

The NZRLs embarrassing secret and not so secret approaches to Australians (Tahu, Hunt, MAson, Villasanti etc) must stop. If someone's elligible, as them.

 

[PARRA_FAN]

The NZRLs embarrassing secret and not so secret approaches to Australians (Tahu, Hunt, MAson, Villasanti etc) must stop. If someone's elligible, as them.

Two of those players arent a good example, Tahu was born and bred in Australia, and he is half aboriginal. His father is Kiwi which would be the only thing to qualify for New Zealand

And Villasanti was born in Canberra, played all his junior football in Australia, not a Kiwi.

Mason and Hunt were born in New Zealand on the other hand, but played their junior football in Australia.

 

[JJ]

The NZRLs embarrassing secret and not so secret approaches to Australians (Tahu, Hunt, MAson, Villasanti etc) must stop. If someone's elligible, as them.

Two of those players arent a good example, Tahu was born and bred in Australia, and he is half aboriginal. His father is Kiwi which would be the only thing to qualify for New Zealand

And Villasanti was born in Canberra, played all his junior football in Australia, not a Kiwi.

Mason and Hunt were born in New Zealand on the other hand, but played their junior football in Australia.

I know they're bad examples - hence I called them Australian. But the NZRL has secretly or publicly suggested to them that they are Kiwis, and should play for NZ. I wasn't suggesting any of them are Kiwis

 

[playdaball]

This is a 'grey area' and would not surfaced if the Hunt situation had been managed properly.

This was discussed this morning on radio sport (NZ) and a caller raised an interesting point. Kurt Sorensen's son plays for the Burleigh Bears and has 'signed' for Parramatta. He was born in Australia, lived a large part of his life in England and his father was of course a Kiwi legend. His dream ... to play for the Kiwis if ever selected.

Players should advise who they wish to play for otherwise this situation will raise its ugly head again. It may get worse if a World Cup ever takes place - PI players, Lebanon etc.

 

[JJ]

This is a 'grey area' and would not surfaced if the Hunt situation had been managed properly.

This was discussed this morning on radio sport (NZ) and a caller raised an interesting point. Kurt Sorensen's son plays for the Burleigh Bears and has 'signed' for Parramatta. He was born in Australia, lived a large part of his life in England and his father was of course a Kiwi legend. His dream ... to play for the Kiwis if ever selected.

Players should advise who they wish to play for otherwise this situation will raise its ugly head again. It may get worse if a World Cup ever takes place - PI players, Lebanon etc.

Yes - I agree to some extent, but I don't think the responsibility should be on Hunt. How arrogant would it sound for every teenager in the game (remember, Hunt debuted in first grade this season, didn't he), to announce that they will play for X international team.

The NZRL, if they were interested in Hunt, should have asked him weeks ago, and not done this secret squirrell rubbish. If the kid really wanted to play for NZ, there's little Wayne Bennett could have done. I don't like Bennett or the Broncos but to suggest he would have got all heavy with the kid is offensive.

 

[Big Bunny]

For me it's quite simple. A number of these players are blokes I wouldn't want playing for either nation. If a guy has to take a lot of time to make his mind up its clear that his heart isn't fully behind his decision. I'd only want players who have 100% commitment to their nation. Both Aussie and Kiwi selectors should take that into account before how good a player someone is.

I'd take a pub league player with the right heart and focus before I'd ever pick a bloke like Villasanti.

 

[kiwi_man]

yeah, did any1 see the interview with hunt and they asked him two questions, 1. who would you go for in the olympics?aus or nz? he replied "america".
question 2. who would you go for between the wallabies or the all blacks? he replied "the all blacks mate".
so he only picked aus because he wants to play for qld or because aus are a better team.
also him supporting the all blacks, wouldnt the next best thing be to play for the kiwis... :?

 

[screeny]

The very fact that Hunt has said his ultimate goal is to play for Qld - not even Oz - is symptomatic of the problems with perceptions that exist in Australia.

The authorities simply must work at elevating the Roos as the pinnacle.

 

[Bengal]

There are two issues here:

1) International football

2) State of Origin eligibility

For the sake of International footie, in order for it to grow it needs to be competitive. In terms of the big three (GB, NZ and OZ) Great Britain and New Zealand are relatively even, while we all know Australia are well ahead (as evidenced by the fact that they have not lost a test series since lord knows when?).
Yet the lure of State of Origin is depriving one of these teams (NZ) of (maybe) current, but certainly in the future, valuable playing talent (e.g. K Hunt).
Unfortunately at the same time the team that doesn’t need strengthening (Australia) is being strengthened, in no small part, thanks to the lure of State of Origin.

State of Origin is becoming a barrier to the attractiveness of International football.

Somehow this barrier needs to be overcome.
What we need is a formula that allows Aussie raised, but Kiwi eligible players, not only the opportunity to play State of Origin, but if they choose too, the chance to represent New Zealand.
A formula that stops most kiwi born and kiwi raised players from being able to play State of Origin, but allows the small minority of Aussie raised, but kiwi eligible players the chance to represent NZ (once again if they choose).
One such formula could be if a kiwi eligible player has lived in Australia for ‘x’ amount of years (say 3, 4, 5...) prior to his first senior football game, qualifies him for both State of Origin and Kiwi selection.

Whatever the case there must be some magic formula out there that can help solve this dilemma?

International footie easily has the potential to eclipse State of Origin in popularity if given a chance.
State of Origin is a barrier to the growth (certainly the popularity) of International football because it has the potential to weaken the competitiveness of one of Australia’s chief rivals (NZ).

By eliminating or alleviating this barrier International football has a better chance of succeeding because the more teams that are (consistently) competitive against Australia the more attractive International footie becomes.

 

[In-goal]

it's certainly something that needs to be looked into, maybe SL had it right with the tri series(joking)

 

[AuckMel]

Lowe tells the NZRL not to dredge up Kiwi kids living in Australia, and yet he actively recruits for the Manly-Warringah Club?

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

question 2. who would you go for between the wallabies or the all blacks? he replied "the all blacks mate".
so he only picked aus because he wants to play for qld or because aus are a better team.
also him supporting the all blacks, wouldnt the next best thing be to play for the kiwis...

That doesn't mean a thing, I'm Australian and I support anyone but the Wallabies.

 

[ali]

Well said Bengal. This is getting a good debate in the NRL section as well.

With half of last years Aus schoolboys team eligable to play for NZ at senior level, this is an issue that will not go away. It also has ramifications for other nations. A kid like Neville Costigan at the Broncos probably wants to play Origin and for PNG. As PNG play once in a blue moon, I'm sure he will choose QLD if he ever becomes that good. Surely he should be allowed to play for both, for the good of the game.

 

[FLO]

There are two issues here:

1) International football

2) State of Origin eligibility

For the sake of International footie, in order for it to grow it needs to be competitive. In terms of the big three (GB, NZ and OZ) Great Britain and New Zealand are relatively even, while we all know Australia are well ahead (as evidenced by the fact that they have not lost a test series since lord knows when?).
Yet the lure of State of Origin is depriving one of these teams (NZ) of (maybe) current, but certainly in the future, valuable playing talent (e.g. K Hunt).
Unfortunately at the same time the team that doesn’t need strengthening (Australia) is being strengthened, in no small part, thanks to the lure of State of Origin.

State of Origin is becoming a barrier to the attractiveness of International football.

Somehow this barrier needs to be overcome.
What we need is a formula that allows Aussie raised, but Kiwi eligible players, not only the opportunity to play State of Origin, but if they choose too, the chance to represent New Zealand.
A formula that stops most kiwi born and kiwi raised players from being able to play State of Origin, but allows the small minority of Aussie raised, but kiwi eligible players the chance to represent NZ (once again if they choose).
One such formula could be if a kiwi eligible player has lived in Australia for ‘x’ amount of years (say 3, 4, 5...) prior to his first senior football game, qualifies him for both State of Origin and Kiwi selection.

Whatever the case there must be some magic formula out there that can help solve this dilemma?

International footie easily has the potential to eclipse State of Origin in popularity if given a chance.
State of Origin is a barrier to the growth (certainly the popularity) of International football because it has the potential to weaken the competitiveness of one of Australia’s chief rivals (NZ).

By eliminating or alleviating this barrier International football has a better chance of succeeding because the more teams that are (consistently) competitive against Australia the more attractive International footie becomes.

How about nz try to develope the game in nz instead of blaming SOO for the lack of pride that kiwis show for thier country.
The big 3? :lol: :lol: :lol: GB has a decent domestic comp, Australia has at least 3 decent domestic comps, the kiwis have...well they have GB's and the Australian comps . The crapiness of nz is the barrier to the attractiveness of international football

 

[The Observer]

As was pointed out elsewhere by an astute poster, this is a bit rich coming from Lowe given that he has set up a link between Manly and Auckland club Ellerslie that is sending Kiwi talent out of the country.

The Origin problem highlights the fact that NZ needs its own City Country style rep series to give more players an incentive to play for NZ.

 

[Bengal]

How about nz try to develope the game in nz instead of blaming SOO for the lack of pride that kiwis show for thier country.
The big 3? :lol: :lol: :lol: GB has a decent domestic comp, Australia has at least 3 decent domestic comps, the kiwis have...well they have GB's and the Australian comps . The crapiness of nz is the barrier to the attractiveness of international football

Oh yet another close-minded league fan interested only in his own patch.
It’s a shame this game breeds so many ‘self-interested’ types, it is one of the main reasons why this great game has never reached the heights it should have.

You obviously belong to the Phil Gould school of thought i.e. NZ has their problems, let them deal with it; we (Australia) have nothing to gain from getting involved.
Now apply that thinking to State of Origin, if for example the Maroons through various reasons (lack of player depth, poor coaching, whatever) loses series after series after series and there is no real hope of turning that around in the foreseeable future.

As a Blues supporter do you go ‘yehaa’ we are the champs as long as we win, I don’t give a stuff (the Phil Gould school of thought – of which you are a prime candidate) or do you go this is no good for the game, in order for this game to grow (and therefore keep its competitors at bay) we (NSW) need to help out QLD to ensure State of Origin remains a competitive therefore attractive series for the sporting public to follow (a school of thought of a real League fan).

I mean after a few years of consistently winning, would State of Origin still be of interest to you? Would your passion still be as strong under this scenario, as it is now, if you knew that each year State of Origin was a foregone conclusion?
Probably your interest would fade to that of the level often shown towards Internationals.


If Rugby League was the only entertainment on this planet, people’s self-interests would not be a concern because, naturally, there wouldn’t be any rival amusements to worry about.
However League is not on its own and unfortunately self-interest is prevalent throughout the game hindering future growth and stopping it from being where it should be, umero numero in Australia (at least!). Self-interest also gives our rivals a less hassle free opportunity to encroach on League territory.

Through helping others we help ourselves a stronger NZ means a stronger Australia, so on and so on…

Only non-league fans will have the last laugh from narrow mindedness.

 

[AuckMel]

How about nz try to develope the game in nz instead of blaming SOO for the lack of pride that kiwis show for thier country.

If you really, really want the game to develope in New Zealand, then Australian clubs should not sign any players. This of course is plain stupid (a bit like your comment above actually)as there is no money in the game in New Zealand apart from the Warriors.

The Batercard Cup will never be at a level like the NRL and ESL because all the best players are snapped up by clubs in the above mentioned competitions.

Maybe if you raping bastards actually paid some transfer fees for these young guys, then the New Zealand RL might be able to eventually set up a competition that is as competitive and pays as much as the NRL and ESL.