Hall of Fame and Immortals

[Disinterested third party]

Always thought Gene Miles a better player than Mal.

Guessing coaching and team results comes into it now rather than simply being the outstanding individual player of an era.

He's hugely underrated. Supreme attacking player. Always will remember him booting it over the old Frank Burke stand at Langers on a penalty kick to touch...

 

[Disinterested third party]

Because in other eras, like the 70s and 80s the best players were more spread out and they don't dominate the immortals list.

The overall talent wasn't better in the 50s and 60s, its just that the best of them all played for St George.

Souths say hi.

 

[Vee]

I don't understand how Lockyer has overtaken Fittler or Daley, Langer, Sterling, Kenny etc.

In my opinion he was never as good a 5/8 as Fittler, Daley or Thurston, and wasn't as good a fullback as Slater.

Players such as Sterlo and others from the 80s seem to have been forgotten about, which is strange considering how dominant the Australian team was at that time.

Re Locky - Playing Devil's advocate, I can only suggest it was on his leadership and his clutch plays which largely built the culture for Qld's run in Origin. Not to suggest that the others mentioned weren't great leaders or didn't regularly produce the clutch plays in the big moments, just that he did it more at rep level. Perhaps.

Re Sterlo - I get your point but as I mentioned a month or two ago, I can't even be sure that Sterlo was the best half of his generation. Turvey brought different things to the table and was arguably just as good in a different way.

 

[JJ]

Meninga wasn't even the best player in his club side. Immortal?

If your starting a new team in 1990 and getting to take 2 or 3 from Canberra I wouldn't be selecting Meninga over Clyde, Daley or Lazo. Could even argue Stuart.

Yeah, I am not offended by the choice (but still prefer the Hall of Fame thing) - but you're right, Meninga was seldom if ever the best player in his team - in Qld the likes of Lewis, Langer, Miles etc were more important. And of course in many cases there were better centres - Gene Miles is the obvious one, and the Kangaroo centre pairing or Miles and Kenny was other worldly (and of course meant Meninga played the mid-week games).

Consistent with what Angry and others have said, of the players I've seen Miles would be in my best ever team - as centre (he was a great back rower too) - Meninga doesn't make the team which would seem strange for an 'Immortal'... but of course over an extended period Meninga has contributed more than Miles - and I am not at all arguing for big Gene as an immortal.

I also don't get that Lockyer is apparently a serious contender, when the likes of Sterling, Langer, Fittler, Kenny, Stuart, Mortimer and Daley are not - of course my preference and I could be wrong but I'd have any of Lewis, Kenny, Fittler, or Daley at stand off before Lockyer - that doesn't make him not great, as they are all great...

 

[ANTiLAG]

Yeah, I am not offended by the choice (but still prefer the Hall of Fame thing) - but you're right, Meninga was seldom if ever the best player in his team - in Qld the likes of Lewis, Langer, Miles etc were more important. And of course in many cases there were better centres - Gene Miles is the obvious one, and the Kangaroo centre pairing or Miles and Kenny was other worldly (and of course meant Meninga played the mid-week games).

Consistent with what Angry and others have said, of the players I've seen Miles would be in my best ever team - as centre (he was a great back rower too) - Meninga doesn't make the team which would seem strange for an 'Immortal'... but of course over an extended period Meninga has contributed more than Miles - and I am not at all arguing for big Gene as an immortal.

I also don't get that Lockyer is apparently a serious contender, when the likes of Sterling, Langer, Fittler, Kenny, Stuart, Mortimer and Daley are not - of course my preference and I could be wrong but I'd have any of Lewis, Kenny, Fittler, or Daley at stand off before Lockyer - that doesn't make him not great, as they are all great...

Gotta keep them Queenslanders happy, or before you know it the Lions and Suns are dominating and RL is a one state sport.

 

[JJ]

Re Sterlo - I get your point but as I mentioned a month or two ago, I can't even be sure that Sterlo was the best half of his generation. Turvey brought different things to the table and was arguably just as good in a different way.

Yep - although I think Sterlo was better...

But as above, I think there are very good arguments that Meninga wasn't the best centre of his generation, and was Lockyer really better than Fittler or Daley? I know people put up the 'he was a fine fullback too' argument, but Kenny, Fittler and Daley were fine centres, and Fittler a handy lock... plus big Geno was an outstanding 2nd rower.

The debates are interesting, but I wish they'd just stick to the HoF

 

[ANTiLAG]

Yep - although I think Sterlo was better...

But as above, I think there are very good arguments that Meninga wasn't the best centre of his generation, and was Lockyer really better than Fittler or Daley? I know people put up the 'he was a fine fullback too' argument, but Kenny, Fittler and Daley were fine centres, and Fittler a handy lock... plus big Geno was an outstanding 2nd rower.

The debates are interesting, but I wish they'd just stick to the HoF

Meninga was good. But he wasn't on Freddy's or even Daley's level.

Langer was good, but he was no Joey, JT and even with KevWalters he was no Daley and Stuart.

But we need to fudge it to keep Queenslanders happy. They do have JT, Smith and Slater to come through later. Those are facts.

This is about the game, and it includes Qld, noone wants to hear north of the border how Queensland sucked for most of the 20th century.

 

[veggiepatch1959]

Tommy, you're arguing the wrong argument. Freddy is still a buffoon as his hair is turning grey and falling out.

But man, he could play football. And I rate him very highly.

That's what you should be arguing.

I wouldn't be surprised if I read in the papers tomorrow that that Freddy went and played letter box baseball tonight just 'cos someone had a ute and a baseball bat. Let's not let buffoonery get in the way of someone's playing ability. Cos Freddy has both in spades.

And you know what? I even like his commentary (whether people question his sobriety or not).

You're one special type of idiot.

 

[Springs09]

Re Locky - Playing Devil's advocate, I can only suggest it was on his leadership and his clutch plays which largely built the culture for Qld's run in Origin. Not to suggest that the others mentioned weren't great leaders or didn't regularly produce the clutch plays in the big moments, just that he did it more at rep level. Perhaps.

Re Sterlo - I get your point but as I mentioned a month or two ago, I can't even be sure that Sterlo was the best half of his generation. Turvey brought different things to the table and was arguably just as good in a different way.

Well I said 'Sterlo and others' from the 80s. More so in regards to how we talk about Lockyer in the running already over Fittler and Daley, while the great halves (and other players) of the 80s are barely mentioned. It's strange for a time that's probably remembered most fondly by those in the current media, that saw the birth of State of Origin and the Kangaroos at their most dominant. It's strange we have so many candidates from the 60s but really only Wally and Mal have been mentioned from the 80s.

In regards to Sterlo, he was named best halfback of the limited tackle era in 1995 and was halfback in all 6 Ashes tests on the 1982 and 1986 undefeated Kangaroo tours, as well as winning 2 Dally Ms and 2 Rothmans Medals. I never saw him play but the accolades tell me he was regarded as the best halfback of the era both at the time and in hindsight.

With Lockyer, yes he was a great leader, but his rep record was poor until 2006. He was regularly overshadowed by Fittler and Johns-led NSW sides up until Joey retired, and then afterwards was a less dominant force in the QLD team than Thurston, Smith and Slater. He was also the first Kangaroos captain to lose a major tournament/series in a long time, in 2008 and 2010. If you are going by rep careers I think Fittler outshines Lockyer there too.

Lockyer was a great player but I think his nomination came more off the back of recent memory of his records and the media circle jerk in his last years. Same as the rose-coloured-hyperbole about Smith, Thurston and Slater all being the best player of all time ever.

 

[Captain Apollo]

Interesting article about what went on in the judging room on Tuesday when deciding who would be the next Immortals - https://wwos.nine.com.au/2018/08/02...warren-lifts-the-lid-on-extraordinary-_020818

 

[Last Week]

With Lockyer, yes he was a great leader, but his rep record was poor until 2006. He was regularly overshadowed by Fittler and Johns-led NSW sides up until Joey retired, and then afterwards was a less dominant force in the QLD team than Thurston, Smith and Slater. He was also the first Kangaroos captain to lose a major tournament/series in a long time, in 2008 and 2010. If you are going by rep careers I think Fittler outshines Lockyer there too.

Just on this, but you're forgetting the 2005 Tri Nations.

Australia lost that tournament to NZ 24-0 in the final. Now, Lockyer wasn't captain for that game, Buderus was.

But, something that was astonishing was that game 1 of that tournament was the first time Joey and Locky played in the halves together. And Australia lost 38 - 28. Locky was captain that game.

 

[typicalfan]

Meninga was good. But he wasn't on Freddy's or even Daley's level.

Langer was good, but he was no Joey, JT and even with KevWalters he was no Daley and Stuart.

But we need to fudge it to keep Queenslanders happy. They do have JT, Smith and Slater to come through later. Those are facts.

This is about the game, and it includes Qld, noone wants to hear north of the border how Queensland sucked for most of the 20th century.

If Meninga was on a level below Fittler and Daley, then why have the Raiders not made a grand final since his retirement? Did anyone else retire that day?

 

[Last Week]

If Meninga was on a level below Fittler and Daley, then why have the Raiders not made a grand final since his retirement? Did anyone else retire that day?

Stretching..

Manly haven't made a grand final since Foran so...

 

[typicalfan]

Stretching..

Manly haven't made a grand final since Foran so...

Because comparing Foran to Meninga is not a stretch and neither is comparing 5 seasons 24 seasons.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

I feel that Matt Nable's voice overs didn't get the credit they deserved.

 

[King hit]

At the risk of being controversial was Meninga really immortal level, he was a great player with a great record not denying that but was he really that amazing. From what I've seen of him as a player it seems like he could really go missing in games from time to time and he was physically massive running at smaller centres. In these days with bulked up backs I wonder if he would be able to consistently do what he did in this era. You could also say he wasn't the best in the Raiders team at the time as Clyde and Daley were pumped up as the best players in the world and when Stuart was out the Raiders declined, 1993 the most obvious example. Even in the QLD team he wasn't the best, Lewis was the best player on the team. He didn't ever captain QLD to a series win but you could compensate that with him being the only premiership winning Raiders captain.

 

[Mr Angry]

They lets Lazo go

If Meninga was on a level below Fittler and Daley, then why have the Raiders not made a grand final since his retirement? Did anyone else retire that day?

No but a Young man called Lazarus moved to Brisbane and helped them win for the first time, then to Melbourne to win for the first time.

Yet not considered.

 

[Disinterested third party]

At the risk of being controversial was Meninga really immortal level, he was a great player with a great record not denying that but was he really that amazing. From what I've seen of him as a player it seems like he could really go missing in games from time to time and he was physically massive running at smaller centres. In these days with bulked up backs I wonder if he would be able to consistently do what he did in this era. You could also say he wasn't the best in the Raiders team at the time as Clyde and Daley were pumped up as the best players in the world and when Stuart was out the Raiders declined, 1993 the most obvious example. Even in the QLD team he wasn't the best, Lewis was the best player on the team. He didn't ever captain QLD to a series win but you could compensate that with him being the only premiership winning Raiders captain.

I'll file this with your previous comments. In the round filing cabinet.

 

[_Johnsy]

That's quiet a goode attempt at speling that word.

You do realise that the Y & I are pretty bloody close on an iphone. However if you need to resort to grammatical or spelling errors, you're behind the 8 ball.

 

[_Johnsy]

How does Andrew “the self confessed drug addict” Johns fit in with this group of MEN? What a f**king joke it is.

Obviously know SFA about the game. Carry on.