Hall of Fame

[JJ]

Big Mal and his toe poke

Seriously though, I think under any situation like that it would be Joey Johns for me, the best player I've seen that could pull of the amazing play

personally I think the toe poke should be the only legal form of goal kicking in both codes

"#Bringbackthetoepoke"

 

[Beavers Headgear]

Seems to be some chat around that Lockyer might be close to getting in tonight. Thoughts ?

Been thinking about it today, and while don't get me wrong, very, very good player, I'm not quite sure he is at that elite level that is a cut above like the others

When I think of him I have him alongside the likes of Fittler, Sterling, Stuart, Langer etc, all time greats but just a cut below the likes of Johns, Fulton, Lewis etc that are already in there

 

[JJ]

Yep would be wrong to have him and no Sterling, Mortimer, Kenny, Daley, Stuart, Langer, Fittler etc . Essentially that's why I prefer the HoF

 

[JJ]

Messenger, Brown and Burge. Great, seriously good call IMO finally the powers that be do something that adds credibility

 

[Beavers Headgear]

Add Provan and Meninga to that, all round pretty decent selections

I do agree with Kent in one of his comments last night, adding 2 every 4 years will dilute the concept a lot

 

[sup42]

Lockyer was probably the player that made Johns what he was, sport is like that...no surprise the greatest boxer of all time fought in a heavy weight division with names like Frazier, Forman, Holmes, Spinks, and Sonny Liston.
It is the quality of your competitors that keeps the blade sharp...I digress.

I preferred Lockeyer myself but thats partly to do with off field conduct.

Mal deserves it. I am thrilled to see a Center win it. The tendency is for halves to hog all the recognition.

Mal was genuinely a player that could win a test single handed....he was also so good that when he ran over the top of one of your players, you forgave them for not being able to stop him.
Renouf was the prince of Centers, Mal is the King.

As for finally including Messenger....wot a larf...it is like adding Hilary to the climbers hall of fame a hundred years after Everest.

One of the greatest players to play for NZ as well....fascinating.

 

[Beavers Headgear]

I like the old story about Mal, from memory the player was Kenny marking him in Origin and he asked Cronin for advice on how to tackle him, the response was "throw shit in his eyes", Kenny asked how he would do that and the reply came along the lines of "when he is running at you there will be a pile of shit behind you" haha

Was the first time Messenger has been eligible for this concept, was good to see all 3 of those guys go straight in

Just a side note on Lockyer off field conduct that you mentioned, are a lot of stories told by people who lived in Brisbane throughout his career, luckily though the Broncos lifted up the big carpet and swept them all underneath lol

 

[JJ]

I still struggle with the concept though - and what it adds beyond the Hall of Fame - it's purpose varies, but as Beaver noted I really struggle to understand why Lockyer would be considered ahead of Fittler, Kenny, Sterling, Langer, Daley, Mortimer - # of tests or origins isn't the only criteria

I have no issue with the Meninga or Provan selections - obviously I never saw Provan play, but there seem to be a lot selected from that era, an era when the Dragons were dominant, but Australia wasn't.

Meninga is interesting - I'm a fan, and his longevity and battle through the broken arms was great etc. But, Miles was clearly a better centre early on IMO - Kenny too when he played there, both were huge in big games as well. So while Meninga is a giant of the game in every sense, I am not 100% comfortable with him being elevated above some of his contemporaries. Sadly, the role of centres has been devalued, perhaps to a degree because of the likes of Meninga, Close and Miles - ironically the most skilled of those was Miles who also became a great back rower, where Meninga never moved there

Anyway, again, no great problem with the 5 names (especially the first three), but I think the concept itself is a little problematic and probably still more about money than anything else - Baseball for instance doesn't seem to need another category to arbitrarily separate the (apparently) greaterest from the greatest (who are in the HoF) - and of course many great players miss the HoF.

Guess for me the HoF is enough

 

[Matua]

I like the old story about Mal, from memory the player was Kenny marking him in Origin and he asked Cronin for advice on how to tackle him, the response was "throw shit in his eyes", Kenny asked how he would do that and the reply came along the lines of "when he is running at you there will be a pile of shit behind you" haha

Was the first time Messenger has been eligible for this concept, was good to see all 3 of those guys go straight in

Just a side note on Lockyer off field conduct that you mentioned, are a lot of stories told by people who lived in Brisbane throughout his career, luckily though the Broncos lifted up the big carpet and swept them all underneath lol

Why is that?

 

[JJ]

Why is that?

Pretty sure it was only post WWII players, or similar - not sure why

 

[Blair]

personally I think the toe poke should be the only legal form of goal kicking in both codes

"#Bringbackthetoepoke"

I find it unwatchable now. I think Michael O'Connor came from union and changed things for league in this regard. Did he come before Ridge, Halligan, etc?

There was a NZ Southlander who went to Souths in about 1992 by the name of Eion Crossan. He was a Junior All black from memory. They were so desperate for a Ridge or Halligan and he delivered that year.

I'm trying to remember the last 'toe-poker' who ever kicked for the All Blacks? I've seen footage of Joe Karam, circa 1972 at Cardiff Arms Park, doing a straight lead-up, but the ball is in the upright position. The 'round-the-corner' approach became a thing in about the late-70s (Brett Codlin?) and was quite revolutionary at the time. He replaced Bryan Williams as our goal-kicker (who had the straight approach I remember).

Come to think of it, the toe-poke may never have been in union. The great Don Clarke didn't do it:

 

[JJ]

I find it unwatchable now. I think Michael O'Connor came from union and changed things for league in this regard. Did he come before Ridge, Halligan, etc?

There was a NZ Southlander who went to Souths in about 1992 by the name of Eion Crossan. He was a Junior All black from memory. They were so desperate for a Ridge or Halligan and he delivered that year.

I'm trying to remember the last 'toe-poker' who ever kicked for the All Blacks? I've seen footage of Joe Karam, circa 1972 at Cardiff Arms Park, doing a straight lead-up, but the ball is in the upright position. The 'round-the-corner' approach became a thing in about the late-70s (Brett Codlin) and was quite revolutionary at the time. He replaced Bryan Williams as our goal-kicker (who had the straight approach I remember).

Come to think of it, the toe-poke may never have been in union. The great Don Clarke didn't do it:

View attachment 21950

The union boys were toe hackers, not toe pokers lol - the round the corner approach was the changer - I had thought the Codlins (Mark and Brett) both kicked straight on? I am a Counties boy, Mark was before my time, and the better player I think.

Hewson was another one of the big influencers, I think - in the same ABs team he kicked left foot round the corner, and Rollerson was a right footer and might have kicked straight on

O'Connor was definitely before Ridge and Halligan, but was a pretty ordinary kicker - guess it was probably Ridge and Halligan who changed things - Halligan was likely first, I remember him missing in a semi against a rusty Penrith, who then found form and beat Canberra in the GF, cost Norths their last chance at a GF.

 

[Beavers Headgear]

Why is that?

Long story short, the immortals concept was a collaboration between Rugby League Week and a wine company, to find the best 4 players, and part of their criteria was post World War 2, because the judges wanted to keep it to players they had seen with their own eyes

After the promotion the concept which was meant to be a one off grew legs into what it is today, with the NRL buying the rights to the concept before RLW folded last year and putting their own spin on it now

 

[Blair]

The union boys were toe hackers, not toe pokers lol - the round the corner approach was the changer - I had thought the Codlins (Mark and Brett) both kicked straight on? I am a Counties boy, Mark was before my time, and the better player I think.

Hewson was another one of the big influencers, I think - in the same ABs team he kicked left foot round the corner, and Rollerson was a right footer and might have kicked straight on

O'Connor was definitely before Ridge and Halligan, but was a pretty ordinary kicker - guess it was probably Ridge and Halligan who changed things - Halligan was likely first, I remember him missing in a semi against a rusty Penrith, who then found form and beat Canberra in the GF, cost Norths their last chance at a GF.

Yeah, you're right I think. The Codlin's went straight on. I've edited my original post to put a question mark on 'Brett Codlin'.

Hewson was definitely 'round the corner' but I don't think he was the one who started changing things at the time. There were one or two kickers, circa '77-'80, that were seen as new and revolutionary. Or perhaps I was watching Hewson play for Wellington?

Anyway, the toe-hack was done and dusted in union long before it was banished from league! We are barbarians, aren't we?

I might try and find that Norths v Penrith semi. It sounds like a winter's afternoon nostalgia trip this weekend!

'Torpedo-style' was the technical term to describe the league toe-hack. It sounds kind of cool in retrospect. Just don't watch it!

 

[JJ]

'Torpedo-style' was the technical term to describe the league toe-hack. It sounds kind of cool in retrospect. Just don't watch it!

LOL I thought it was brilliant, Cronin or Meninga were lining kicks up, and whether they were sideline or straight in front, it was a bit of a lottery...

 

[Blair]

LOL I thought it was brilliant, Cronin or Meninga were lining kicks up, and whether they were sideline or straight in front, it was a bit of a lottery...

And Big Mal was still doing that during the drama of a GF as late as 1994!

Hey, the influencer has come to me now. It wasn't a Kiwi after all, it was old 'Twinkle-Toes', Phil Bennett!

Lions tour to NZ, 1977. I can still hear Keith Quinn now, 'and there's that, now familiar, round-the-corner style...he won't miss...'

My guess is he turned a whole generation of Kiwi kids on to this. Interestingly, it was always also said how Ridge and (I think) Halligan played soccer as kids.

 

[JJ]

And Big Mal was still doing that during the drama of a GF as late as 1994!

Hey, the influencer has come to me now. It wasn't a Kiwi after all, it was old 'Twinkle-Toes', Phil Bennett!

Lions tour to NZ, 1977. I can still hear Keith Quinn now, 'and there's that, now familiar, round-the-corner style...he won't miss...'

My guess is he turned a whole generation of Kiwi kids on to this. Interesting, it was always also said how Ridge and (I think) Halligan played soccer as kids.

and Hewson brought all the physicality of Neymar to the All Black jersey!

Football was definitely an influence, and you're right I imagine it was Bennett and the UK players in general, footballers definitely know how to kick properly!

 

[sup42]

My favorite Mal memory would not be a favorite of his.
On debut for the Kangaroos....against the kiwis of course....the commentators were building him up as this young Australian Goliath.

Maninga went into a tackle of Kurt Sorenson from memory....nek minit...the commentators were shouting Maninga is in Dyseny Land !

Mal was finished after that...went off with a busted nose and heavily concussed.

Turns out what did the damage was Sorrensons hip landing on his head...not as spectacular as it looked with him dizzy on the ground to be fair.

Nowadays you dont like to see players hurt....in those days it was all part of it.

 

[Rich102]

I remember the game well.
He went in to score at the scoreboard corner of Carlaw.
(A quirk of this corner was that it went uphill.)
Nothing looked out of place but then there was blood coming from his nose and on his jersey.
He played on though as I recall.
His reputation took a dive though.

 

[Beavers Headgear]

Absolutely loved Mal as a young fella, supported the Raiders firstly coz of him I think. He took a big dive for me though when he signed with Super League and made the comment that rugby league had given him nothing

Back to our hall of fame inductees, I read yesterday that Mark Grahams son is putting together a 90min doco on his career