I established a terror movement in Australia, and I quit

Discussion in 'Four Corners' started by Collateral, Nov 14, 2017 at 10:22 AM.

  1. Mr Spock!

    Mr Spock! First Grade

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    Nonsense. You've claimed I'm a communist because I claimed you post bs.

    What you actually have are people expressing their free speech to drown out racist and bigoted voices.

    Apparently that free speech is not allowed.

    And you are aware that nazism is illegal in Germany. As is antisemitism and holocaust denial. And has been since the war.

    But apparentry that's Marxism /communism.

    This McCarthyism nonsense is just that.
     
  2. The Great Dane

    The Great Dane Juniors

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    Well incitemening violence isn't protected by freedom of speech anyway, so stopping him saying that isn't an infringement of freedom of speech anyway.

    People and companies are constantly being brought up on charges because of anti discrimination complaints made to the Human Rights Commission, and quite often those complaints are about speech and a ruling could easily infringe on free speech, especially considering that sections 18c and 18d have already made freedom of speech redundant under the law in this country, luckily in Australia we haven't had a big case yet where freedom of speech has been servery infringed (that I know of), IMO it's only a matter of time before we do have a case like that.

    However in Britain people are constantly being arrested for tweets and posts made online (there're at least a couple of famous cases a year for the last couple of years), and threatened with fines and jail time, the most famous example being the guy from Scotland who was arrested and is potentially looking at jail time for teaching his girlfriends dog how to do a Nazi salute as a joke to piss his girlfriend off and posting it on Youtube.
    That is a direct threat to freedom of expression and freedom of speech, and the mere fact that taxpayers money was wasted arresting him and taking him to court (let alone throwing him in jail) is a travesty.

    Both sides of politics do this, and both are wrong to do it, however if you weed through enough of the BS you'll find actual cases of suppression of freedom of speech (particularly on university campuses), and at the moment the vast majority of cases are left wing people/groups suppressing right wing peoples freedom of speech with threats of violence, and most of the right wing groups that are suppressing peoples freedom of speech are extreme Islamic groups that in one of the weird paradoxes of this world far left groups often support.

    40-60 years ago the situation was the opposite, I was against it then and I'm against it now because to me it isn't about left and right (the whole left and right thing is largely useless tribalism in my opinion) it's about libertarianism (not the political movement the actual concept it's self) and authoritarianism, and frankly there're libertarians and authoritarians on both sides of the left-right divide and both are as bad and as dangerous as each other (however currently the left authoritarians are more powerful then the right ones, but that'll change again, it always does).

    The sooner that reasonable people on the left and right realise that they have more in common with each other then either do with the far left and far right respectively, the better off our societies will be.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017 at 5:20 PM
  3. The Great Dane

    The Great Dane Juniors

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    Cultural Marxism is born of post modernism, in fact it's probably fair to say that broadly speeking cultural Marxism is just a derogatory way of saying post modernism, so it's more then just boredom it's a whole philosophical structure that has been picked up by multiple different ideologies.

    Apart from that I pretty much agree with everything you said.
     
  4. The Great Dane

    The Great Dane Juniors

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    Is it so strange to you that I would think you are a communist since the whole time I've been speaking to you've been espousing and defending communist ideas?

    If you're not a communist then I apologise for calling you one, but you for not being a communist you sure as hell seem to like their ideas.

    Which is a suppression of the freedom of speech of those racist and bigoted voices, and is a terribly bad idea.

    No it's not because though what they are saying is fine, and they should be allowed to say it, the way they are saying is being used to slience other voices, that's not ok no matter what the circumstances.

    Yes, and even though I'm not a Nazi or a holocaust denier that's wrong.

    You seriously don't know the poem I put up?

    I never said that, however both the Nazis and communist have been notorious for suppressing speech and ideas in the same way when they have been in power.

    However in Germanys case I think that their suppression of freedom of speech comes from a place of good intentions, it's still the wrong thing to do though.

    Strange cause I haven't done anything like McCarthyism, just pointed out that communist ideas are by and large terrible ideas, I don't want the people who've said them to not be able to say them however.
     
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  5. Evil Homer

    Evil Homer Moderator Staff Member

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    What defines incitement to violence though? What if Choudary says it was just a joke like the Scottish bloke with the Nazi dog? No, it doesn't work like that. Your initial point was that a corrupt government could willfully misinterpret or pervert freedom of speech laws, they could just as easily do that no matter what the criteria for censorship was. I could listen to an aggressive rap song, claim that it is incitement to violence and ban all rap music. To try and claim that censorship laws are bad but that certain things should still be censored doesn't stack up.
    It's a threat to people's freedom to make Nazi jokes, I would personally rather live in a country where people aren't doing that so I don't take a huge issue with that. The particular case you're referring to is pretty dumb but if someone is distributing Nazi material then they should be under scrutiny about that regardless of the circumstances, just the same as if it was some Muslim kid posting Youtube videos about doing terrorist attacks and blowing people up. Also have no problem with people being arrested for online abuse, in most cases this is related to death threats or really sick stuff and again I'm happy for people not to be doing that, and TBH I think it would be difficult for anyone to disagree unless you sympathize with the people making those comments.
    No once again this is not suppression of freedom of speech, threatening to hit someone who makes an offensive or hateful statement isn't stopping them from saying it, it's a natural consequence of them saying it. If I call your wife a s**t I would expect you to be pissed off with me, similarly if I say something that antagonizes a large group of people I would expect them to react angrily, it's not a suppression of my ability to do that though, I can still do it but I would have to deal with the consequences. Goes back to my original point that this whole thing is mainly to do with people wanting to be racist without anyone calling them out.
    I really don't think you will find a single person associated with the far left who supports Islamic extremism.
    Agreed, to an extent, sadly the reasonable ones are becoming more and more difficult to find.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017 at 5:50 PM
  6. Mr Spock!

    Mr Spock! First Grade

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    Lol what communist ideals are that?

    That people deserve to be respected and not have to suffer lies and hate speech?

    You really don't even have an understanding of what communism is but you've made some bs up.

    It's nice of you to think that the suppression of nazism and antisemitism was a bad idea but the allies and post war Germany disagreed. And funnily enough had nothing to do with communism or Marxism but something that happened in ww2.

    And weirdly it's you people who cry communist and Marxist when people exercise their right to free speech and protest.

    Seems the only free speech you want is hate speech.

    And duh...you've invented your own definition of communism....you're just another red under the bed nutter.

    Ffs people who protest against bigots are communists.

    Grow up.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017 at 6:56 PM
  7. Mr Spock!

    Mr Spock! First Grade

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    Must admit that I wasn't aware we were under a Communist/Marxist dictatorship when the LNP government banned antiabortion activists, extremist Muslims, holocaust deniers, Palestinian activists and anti-vaxers from speaking in Australia.

    That's what happens when people make up their own shit.
     
  8. Mr Spock!

    Mr Spock! First Grade

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    BS.....someone gets their news and views from Breitbart.

    Cultural Marxism generally refers to one of two things:

    1. First — extremely rarely — "Cultural Marxism" refers to the general application of the Frankfurt School's Marxist ideology to the social sciences.
    2. Second — in common usage in the wild — "Cultural Marxism" is a snarl word used to paint anyone with progressive tendencies as a secret Communist. The term alludes to a conspiracy theory in which sinister left-wingers have infiltrated media, academia, and science and are engaged in a decades-long plot to undermine Western culture. Some variants of the conspiracy alleges that basically all of modern social liberalism is, in fact, a Communist front group.
    This conspiracy theory hinges on the idea that the Frankfurt School wasn't just an arcane strain of academic criticism.[note 1] Instead, the Frankfurt School was behind an ongoing Marxist plot to destroy the capitalistWest from within, spreading its tentacles throughout academia and indoctrinating students to hate patriotism & freedom. Thus, rock'n'roll, Sixties counterculture, the civil rights movement, the anti-war movement, homosexuality,[1] modern feminism, and in general all the "decay" in the West since the 1950s are allegedly products of the Frankfurt school.[2] It's also the work of the Jews.[3][4]

    The conspiracist usage originated in Nazi Germany, where Kulturbolschewismus ("Cultural Bolshevism") was used to abuse political opponents. In particular, Jews purportedly were secretly orchestrating the spread of Communism (Jewish Bolshevism[​IMG]) as well as promoting sexual & gender permissiveness ("sexual Bolshevism").[5]

    If anyone rants about "Cultural Marxists taking over culture!", feel free to remind them that they're literally spouting Nazi propaganda updated for the modern era.

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism
     
  9. Collateral

    Collateral Moderator Staff Member

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    I know, I don’t know why you guys get so defensive when called out on your support for an extremist, violent group.
     
  10. Collateral

    Collateral Moderator Staff Member

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    Lol. Sook twisting himself into all kinds of knots for being called out on being a Commie ANTIFA sympathiser.
     
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  11. Mong

    Mong Immortal

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    :joy::joy::joy:

    Still no quotes huh?

    I'm shocked AF
     
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  12. Pete Cash

    Pete Cash Immortal

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    The reason why you aren't quoting any examples of it is that you can't find any. If this thread was a honeypot to catch leftists defending antifa it failed.

    If it was a honeypot to catch morons defending the statement "antifa is more dangerous than ISIS" mission accomplished
     
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  13. Mr Spock!

    Mr Spock! First Grade

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    Lol...Coll can't be that stupid...he must be trolling the right.
     
  14. Mong

    Mong Immortal

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    Collateral is most certainly a moron, a dishonest one at that.

    :joy:
     
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  15. Collateral

    Collateral Moderator Staff Member

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    Hahaha and I wonder what quote would suit your ludicrous, pro ANTIFA sentiments?

    And it literally sucked a bunch of dumb arse leftists to try and defend ANTIFA against a negative review.

    Keep telling yourselves that you’ve won though. We will keep telling ourselves that we won. Same as usual.

    You certainly took the bait harder than anyone else, so I can understand your embarrassment.
     
  16. Mong

    Mong Immortal

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    Why would you think he's not any type of stupid?

    He satisfies the criteria for pretty much every type of stupid there is.
     
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  17. Mong

    Mong Immortal

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    Hahahahahaha

    Hahahahahahaha

    Antifa is more dangerous than Isis.

    f**k, you're as stupid as they get around these parts. And we have jimbo and b dos...
     
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  18. Pete Cash

    Pete Cash Immortal

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    Any quote would do mate
     
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  19. Bandwagon

    Bandwagon Coach

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    I must say Collie, this thread has delivered, in spades. Congratulations.

    Pity it wasn't what you were looking for, but hey if at first you don't succeed.............


    #specialpeopleshouldbeencouraged.
     
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  20. Pete Cash

    Pete Cash Immortal

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    If Collateral had a brain he would be dangerous.....more dangerous than ISIS
     
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