Discussion in 'Four Corners' started by Collateral, Nov 14, 2017.
Jesus christ that is stinky.
They are trying too.
Looks familiar hmm
"Suppressing freedom of speech" = someone told them not to be racist.
Those signs aren't suppressing freedom of speech ?
I said trying too
Through the zero political power they have.
What alert level have the government issued over the threat level of terrorist attack from Antifa? I do hope it is higher than the one issued for ISIS! I mean at a localised level we surely must be at higher risk!
So are the lefties suppressing thoughts or not now Jimbo?
Not as much as they would like to
My understanding of Fascism is that it is defined by a specific set of principles, the underlying one being that a nation needs to be prepared at all times for war, as war between nations is inevitable, and therefore a nation must always be in a state of readiness.
How this manifests in fascist states is oppressive in nature, as the needs of the nation are paramount. (which is different to both the needs of the society, i.e. Socialism, and the needs of the individual, i.e. Libertarianism).
So fascism takes on ideas of both types of governments, which is why people on either side can point to examples of "fascism" on the other side. Economically it takes a left wing approach, where industry is nationalized so that the productivity of a nation does not get absorbed by individual profits. And social policy takes a traditionally conservative approach, as stability in the nuclear family unit and abstinence from vices feeds men into the war machine.
So when the right and the left scream fascist at each other I feel like they are both right and both wrong. But the actual meaning of fascism is being lost in all the screaming. That's probably the scariest bit. The easiest way to repeat history is to forget it.
Because of its genesis and links with conservative Catholicism.
Fascism rejects both liberalism and socialism with economics. It is called the third position. The nazis ranged in position on the economy from the Strassers to capitalists like Walther Funk
Capital did well in Nazi germany. Better than capital was doing in FDRs united states of America at the time. Interestingly the nazis undertook a lot of privitisation of Germany during a period where much of the west was nationalising utilities
Lol Coll's threads are a hoot...
A case of right wing hysteria in the imaginings of a little boy.
That's a pretty interesting read.
I thought the most interesting part was where Hitler was quoted as saying that there was no need to socialise industry, as he had socialized the population.
The cynic in me would say that this form of privatization, with strict regulatory control and the implicit threat of redistribution of the assets of any industrialist who was unsympathetic to the nazis, meant that it was a form of nationalization by proxy. Clever f**kers those nazis.
Can you tell me more about why you describe fascism as the third position?
Because that is what they say they are. A position against marxism and liberalism
For the record a lot of big business got involved with the nazis because they were into the parties anti marxist and anti union stances. Big business did very well out of fascism in general. Its not a great environment for the smaller guys or liberalism but the companies favoured within a fascist regime do quite well.
Henry Ford was balls deep in the Nazi regime for a while there.
I think that might have been a little deeper than anti marxist and anti union beliefs tbh
But yeah a lot of folks get caught up in nazism who one wouldn't expect. The duke of Windsor for example had to be sent off to the Bahamas by his brother to avoid how embarrassing it was the old king was mates with Hitler.
Fascism is appealing to some folks. For a bunch of reasons. From the snappy uniforms to the desire to kill all the jews its got a big appeal to a certain type of fella.
They did have some fine f**king uniforms.
At their core Antifa are Anarcho-communists, they were founded by communists and the Ararchists jumped on board latter I believe, so they're basically the mirror image of Nazis cause at the end of the day the only differences between a Nazi and a communist is that Nazis blame racial and religious groups for all their problems and want socialism that only extends to people in their own group, and communist blame the upper classes for all their problems and want a giant form of socialism that extends to everybody in their nation.
Both are as bad as each other, the only difference between the two at the moment is that there's a weird blind spot when it comes to communism in western countries that isn't shared by the Nazis and fascists in general, so Antifa can get away with doing terrible things that the Nazis can't.
So in other words they're both dog shit and you don't need to defend one to condemn the other which seems to be happening a lot in the media when this subject comes up.
Uhh yeah, you can't have freedom of speech then say that some people you don't agree with aren't allowed to speak or shouldn't be allowed to speak (no matter how vile what they are saying is), and more often then not in the current political climate when somebody is saying don't be racist/homophobic/whatever they're also saying that racists/homophobes/whatevers shouldn't be allowed to speak and that's just wrong and anti-liberal values and anti-freedom, and both Antifa and Islamic groups are notorious for this (unless it applies to them being vile about the groups they don't like of course).
Both of our countries (I'm pretty sure you're from England right?) have hate speech laws, hate speech laws are the antithesis of free speech and are an extremely slippery slope because whichever group is in power at the time has the power to decide what is and what isn't hate speech, and you may be happy with that arrangement at the moment because you agree that what is being branded hate speech should be branded hate speech, but what happens when somewhere down the line someone you don't agree with gains popularity and power in country, lets say an extremely strict Christian group or Islamic group gain popularity in England and take majority control of the countries government, would you be happy with what they deem to be hate speech? I know I wouldn't be.
And don't say that could never happen in England, cause I'm sure there were plenty of people in pre-Nazi Germany, pre-Iranian Revolution, per-Putin Russia and pre a million other situations that have occurred in history that said similar things before it happened to them.
Separate names with a comma.