Ideal NRL & 2nd tier expansion in the medium term.

Discussion in 'NRL Expansion' started by jim_57, Dec 30, 2016.

  1. taipan

    taipan Coach

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    My view 500,000.
     
  2. alien

    alien Coach

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    The Sutherland Shire doesn't even have half that.
     
  3. taipan

    taipan Coach

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    I agree but when it's in "heartland" areas ,the figures don't have to be 500,000.Why? You have a far better chance of getting 16,000 crowds .You have a far better chance of getting your sponsor boxes full(as happening with the Sharks),and because of FTA coverage in heartland a better chance of securing a major sponsor.

    So far the memberships of the Bulldogs is nothing to write home about, and the clubs you have mentioned ,have been around far longer than Penrith and Cronulla.
    You continue to assume that populations in Cronulla are either static or not growing, that is far from the truth.Penrith is in a huge growth area, with a huge junior base.

    Brisbane a one city club, yes has the biggest crowds and sponsorship but that is roll gold heartland.,but pro rata their memberships and crowds per population base do not stand up to the individual clubs in Sydney.
    Whilst I won't argue about the cverall size of the Broncos in terms of crowds,sponsorhips and memberships and profitability.With all that they make a profit not huge, despite having the city to themselves.How many times has the house full sign been put up?

    One of the clubs ironically pushing really hard for the increase in grants was the Storm,showing exactly even in a one city team in non heartland areas, the going is extremely tough.Especially with this grant they are talking of breaking even.

    The Sharks do not pay one cent in ground rentals ,as opposed to Melbourne and Brisbane.Plus the sponsorship for ground naming rights goes to the Sharks.Plus any home game at the Sharks,the licensed club benefits from grog sales, and patronage of the club after and before.How many other clubs have a ground which they own. and their licenced club next door.

    The one negative ATM for the Sharks is their stadium, it will be eventually upgraded that is part of the long term plans.Profitiability of the Licenced club, the 99 year rental on the Retail side ,plus profits from residential development ,provide future funding, coupled with Banks who would be prepared to lend based on asset value.

    Bruno Cullen when he completed his shortened audit of the Sharks during the ASADA drama, was quite open with his view ,the Sharks IHO would be among the top 3 or 4 clubs financially in the comp.

    I will say this regardless of where a club is situated ,be it traditional ,expansion heartland or non heartland.If the club is not financially strong in the early stages and has a few early lean years, and does not market the club well, they will have a short tenure.
    The only area I would not have a club in is Tasmania.
     
  4. taipan

    taipan Coach

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    I'm talking new areas.Townsville doesn't have 500,000,neither does Canberra.
    Read my response to P.R re Sydney and the reasoning behind the Shark's position.
     
  5. Perth Red

    Perth Red Referee

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    I'd like to know why Cullen believed that. Even with the revenue from the asset sales the sharks will still be in the region of $7-9mill a year behind the big boys. This is due to lower fanbase and difficulty attracting big sponsors.

    There's a reason smith was targeting 20k crowds, he knows big crowds equals big revenue for clubs.


    Re owning your own club, Souths earn more from playing at anz before they sell a box or ticket than sharks make in gatebtakings at shark park. You getbcatering and sponsorship but also have to pay for maintainence and game day costs not to mention finding tens of millions at some point to upgrade it.
     
  6. T-Boon

    T-Boon Juniors

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    If I was the NRL I would try to broker a deal where a city like Adelaide or Perth pays a Sydney club to take 2 or 3 games a year - then tack on some incentives for the city like promotion, potential origin or test matches or the Nines. The condition for the club is you have to lock it in for 5 years.
     
  7. alien

    alien Coach

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    Perth and Adelaide should have their own teams.
     
  8. taipan

    taipan Coach

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    He checked not only the books, but did plenty of research on the development proposal ,and actually consulted.He is not as thick as we look.He is stating based on his research the club will be among the "big" boys.

    Maybe Cullen should provide a link for you.You love links.
    The fan base has grown substantially since his report and continues to grow.The stadium situation as it now stands is holding things back re crowd averages.
    Well all sponsors boxes already sold out.Stadium sponsored.All except major sponsor ,which will not be at fire sale price too be sorted out.Ground signage monies all to the club.
    If an A League team comes in there you can add further value.

    We all want 20,000 crowds.He(Smith) was too concerned stuffing up the Tv deal looked OK at the start, ended up getting Jerry Hall's squeeze offside.
    As has been stated from 2018 the code gets to arrange the schedule.Better opportunities then to get bigger crowds.
    BTW you don't bring your average up, when you play in some regional areas such as Darwin and Cairns.Yes they are important.

    Do you know how much the stadium sponsorship is worth pa at the sharks, or the liquor deal with the brewer?What percentage of the sponsors' boxes money the club gets?The food outlets pay also.

    Of course there is maintenance, but that is well offset by the patronage of the Licenced club on game day food ,drinks and pokies.There are other activities such as a boxing bout on the grounds.

    I have already mentioned how and where the monies will come from to effect Stadium upgrade.You have not been paying attention in class.
     
  9. T-Boon

    T-Boon Juniors

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    I agree. But it seems obvious now that that isn't going to happen any time soon, because it is in the NRL too hard basket with a whole bunch of other things. I am trying to think of things that even the NRL and clubs, in all their united retardedness, might be able to sort out.
     
  10. siv

    siv Juniors

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    Bar Melbourne how many other cities/regions meet the 500k population criteria that don't have RL today ?
     
  11. taipan

    taipan Coach

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    Perff,Adelaide,and Banana 2.
     
  12. Perth Red

    Perth Red Referee

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    Pretty much the three next priority areas for expansion.

    Id like to see a NZ2 team to strengthen the game there but there is only Christchurch with a decent sized population and they have plenty of issues they are dealing with.
     
  13. Perth Red

    Perth Red Referee

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    Some facts to back up such a sweeping statement is generally a good thing. You are around $8-9mill a year behind the big boys in revenue and losing $1mill a year with around $6mill of debt. From the figures Ive seen banded around from the development it is unlikely they will bring in that sort of money yearly.

    You can see those figures re sponsorship gate and bar takings etc etc in your annual report.
     
  14. flamin

    flamin Juniors

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    Wellington urban area overtook Christchurch a few years ago.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10762202
     
  15. taipan

    taipan Coach

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    Just like the facts you have for Perth.Forward estimates, crowds , ignoring the economy.
    The facts are the development has completed stage 1,being occupied, stage 2 under construction.No problem in selling the units.
    The football club lost $500,000 in 2016.
    The problem is PR,you tend to look at the past.Cullen is looking at the future and what was in process.None of which would show in last figures.
    The figures you've seen bandied about LOL.I am fully aware and capable of reading annual reports.If I was to rely on past figures and exclude the development effect, increased membership for 2017 ,sold out corp boxes and stands, huge merchandise sales,I would not be providing the up to date estimates.The Licenced club is to be refurbished.
    I've been involved with the club as a fan for decades,I have seen enough crap with their doors nearly closing on a couple of occasions. You are telling me how to suck eggs.
    The choice I have is a former CEO who is hardly a dummy ,who investigated not only the books but the future developments(residential and retail) none of which were occupied and associated growth or a whining Pom who cannot see past his Perth into NRL fetish.The answer is pretty obvious.

    If Cullen had stated the club would struggle and has little long term future, you'd be quite happy to quote that point.You see what you want to see.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  16. Perth Red

    Perth Red Referee

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    So you honestly believe you are going to be up around $9million in a couple of years? You're asset sale will keep you sustainable at long last but I see no facts to back up you will be in the top 4-5 revenue clubs anytime soon.

    Be pleased you will still exist in a few years, a few years ago that looked very doubtful.

    Given Cullen lasted a couple of months before walking out in disgust at the ineptitude of the club it was nice of him to say anything good about the club lol.

    You only lost $500k in a premiership winning year? Great result lol.
     
  17. taipan

    taipan Coach

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    Unlike you I'm not going to put an actual price on anything ,until the residential development is completed, approval either given or not for another 200 units (making 900 plus in total) and hotel, retail rental come rolling in, leagues club is refurbished with high class restaurants looking out over Botany Bay.Developments completed at Shearebrook Landing near Wanda,huge unit developments at Caringbah North and Kirrawee.

    That's the beauty of living nearby, you see bricks and cement ,bulldozers,cranes in action ,not relying on a keyboard tucked away near the Indian Ocean

    Whether we exist in 3 or 5 years will be up to "global warming" ,every rl fan in the Shire carking it, a governing body that wants their opposition codes to have a picnic.
    In the meantime you will continue to whine and death ride every NRL club in Sydney,because you care about yourself only.

    LOL The ineptitude turned out to be the correct decision by the club saving millions in terms of legals by reinstating those people and retaining Flanno.The rest is history,as I see every time I walk into the Leagues club foyer, seeing Provan Summons trophy standing proud,and the fans' money continue to roll in.

    Cullen calls a spade a spade, he sees ineptitude he calls it.he sees the development potential and noted it.You can't have it both ways.

    Seeing the $500,000 did not include the effects of the Grand Final win,nor the huge patronage increase since,they have set themselves up nicely.Books get closed off at certain dates

    As opposed to PR's phantom Perth NRL team, made or lost how much in 2016? And were watched by how many? And their licenced club and ground brought how many fans? Season ticket sales going well?

    Whilst ever you continue to death ride other clubs, you will never win fans or influence people.
     
  18. Teddyboy

    Teddyboy First Grade

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    f**kin Rugby code thing is a mess as Rugby Union is doing okay spreading itself around the globe ( daft merkins could of done that 100 years ago but were too elitist etc for that plan) yet Union is dying in Australia and League is doing what it does best and not moving despite the threats from lesser codes of Football i.e.Aussie Rules, Soccer and before Union.
    Can't work a solution out ?
     
  19. siv

    siv Juniors

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    Im wonder how bug an effect our dramas have had

    At the moment it seems the media RL PR team has almost every RL player as a offfield crime offender and drunk

    Then we have the lack of opportunity to play RL at a international level

    Everywhere you turn in the papers or news there is a RL bad news story

    Is it finally taking its toll on mums etc
     
  20. Perth Red

    Perth Red Referee

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    Shame you can't have a reasonable discussio
    Shame you can't have a reasonable discussion without the Perth nonsense and death riding jibes.

    All I asked was if you thought Cullen was correct in suggesting Cronulla will have made up the $9million gap to be amongst the big boys. a simple yes or no, or don't know would have sufficed.
     

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