If We Want To Be A Threat

[RHYTHM AND STEALTH]

Then we need a better front row that showed up last night. The Burgess Bros tore us a new ass through the middle. Kearney lost that game for us by selecting 2 hookers on the bench when the ground was horrendous and pissing rain. Boggy conditions eliminates footwork yet we got ran over by their big men who ran it straight. What the hell was he thinking with the bench he chose

 

[Blair]

Meanwhile Vete was a wrecking-ball up the middle in reserves.

 

[ShaunJohnson7]

Vete is no wrecking ball in the prems hes proven it time and again.

Who do we drop? Definitely not Paasi or Bunty ........Gavet has been disappointing but I think he got a higher ceiling than Vete or Lisone. Hopefully he can get it together

Ah Mau will be a nice addition next season.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Spot on. We won't go anywhere this year because as I've said for weeks now, the better packs are going to target us and know if they aim up, they can overpower us. Yes, we can probably get away with it against some sides when Roger, SJ, Green and Luke are on the field and on form, but equally sides can negate those guys by smashing us up front.

Vete has had myriad chances, Lisone isn't the answer (I think he should reinvent himself as an edge back rower) Gavet has major second year Warrior syndrome, Paasi and Bunty try hard but they should be 3rd and 4th bananas, not 1st and 2nd.

Ah Mau Paasi Bunty Gavet, if they can find form, has some hope for 2019. And hell, we need to start developing and bringing guys through. Hopefully O'Sullivan plays a key role in that. Since the Packer/Matulino days we haven't brought anything through up front, which is a huge indictment.

 

[sup42]

The main gap between ISP players and the top side is the fitness required to maintain the defensive work rate.

There are very positive signs since Corvo got here that this problem is being addressed, some of our ISP Props are managing huge meters this year and are arriving in first grade closer to match readiness than in years gone by.

I remember when Matangi made his debut, he ran hard a couple of times and was spent and pulled from the field after ten minutes, thereafter he struggled for the rest of his time here to bridge the gap fitness wise.

Now we have multiple props coming out of time in the ISP in a better state of readiness.

The problem with our go forward is that when we have a full deck of cards we are great.

When key people are missing we struggle. That is mostly down to the style we have developed where we use mobility in lieu of size.

Souths got away with murder in the ruck, however our lack of having players offload and run in numbers did us in.

When you have a wall of Souths defenders pushing one Warrior back...the only counter that works is to run them around with some second phase.

We have not seen that sort of game from the Warriors since we lost Pulu and have had Mannering as a lead attack forward.

Our whole pattern on attack went out the window in the absence of a half back.

I don't know if you guys remember Shaun Johnson's Microphone game on Sterlo where he was calling the forwards onto the ball ?

That is what is missing from this mobile unit...someone to call several running forwards onto the ball ....run some block plays.

There is nothing wrong with our team when it has all of its spine and all of the key running forwards.

Just pray the League gods allow that team to be fit in this competition and Kearney will have the last laugh.

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

Well we all agree that our problems lie in our forwards, its nothing new though. In fact, our forwards and lack of recruitment of power forwards, was something we discussed before the season started. Our doubts may have disappeared with the teams great start to the season but now they have reappeared exactly as we were concerned about and thats no real go forward.

The only thing I can see thats really improved is our fitness. Have WE (as a team) improved? Well we won 32 - 20 over the Rabbits in round 1 and then several weeks later we lose 30 - 10. The Rabbits have definitely improved since than and yes we had so and so injured (Pulu) but we should never over look where it all starts, and thats up front. We had our "top forwards" against the Rabbits and it wasn't good enough.

Apart from Gavet, none of our forwards coming into the season, were known meter eaters. None of them were in the 2017 top 5 for meters ran or post contact carries. We heard of the Burgess bros who are bonafide power forwards and on Saturday, they put our Afoas etc back in their place, which is underneath the Burgesses, your Fifitas, Matt Scotts in terms of effective go forward.

If we want to be a threat we need solid power forwards. Spines fine Im just not sure if we have any real props in stock.

 

[JJ]

Spot on. We won't go anywhere this year because as I've said for weeks now, the better packs are going to target us and know if they aim up, they can overpower us. Yes, we can probably get away with it against some sides when Roger, SJ, Green and Luke are on the field and on form, but equally sides can negate those guys by smashing us up front.

Vete has had myriad chances, Lisone isn't the answer (I think he should reinvent himself as an edge back rower) Gavet has major second year Warrior syndrome, Paasi and Bunty try hard but they should be 3rd and 4th bananas, not 1st and 2nd.

Ah Mau Paasi Bunty Gavet, if they can find form, has some hope for 2019. And hell, we need to start developing and bringing guys through. Hopefully O'Sullivan plays a key role in that. Since the Packer/Matulino days we haven't brought anything through up front, which is a huge indictment.

Yep - with the Eels we have the weakest middle in the comp - I don't buy the Mannering bashing, he's not the issue, it's that Paasi and Afoa are promising but as you say they are not elite middle, Blair is just a waste of money, Gavet is like a unicorn, Vete and Lisone have not amounted to anything... Kearney made the call to let Matulino and Lillyman go for different reasons and replace them with Blair and Paasi... he has to live with it

Ah Mau is a great signing, but again while he's been excellent at the Dragons that's as 3rd or 4th banana as you put it - we'll still have a middle that's a collection of 3rd and 4th bananas

 

[Scott]

Bit of a random one here, but what are peoples thoughts about maybe targeting Aaron Woods and/or Aiden Tolman. Plenty of cap dramas at the Dogs, both fit the criteria (middle forwards).

 

[jaseg]

Bit of a random one here, but what are peoples thoughts about maybe targeting Aaron Woods and/or Aiden Tolman. Plenty of cap dramas at the Dogs, both fit the criteria (middle forwards).

Not Tolman. Dear effing god no. We already have middle forwards that aren't good at running the ball (for reference: you'd have to go back 6 seasons to find the last time Tolman averaged 8 or more metres per run... something he's done just twice in his 11 year career. He's never averaged even 8.15 mtr/run over a season - and hasn't shown any ability to offload or break tackles since probably 2009.. and even that wasn't great) - he's an expensive minute-soak/defensive player for a team that has a great middle to play alongside, and a crop of good young guys who can only play limited minutes while still being effective.

Woods is ok... not great, but ok (for significant minutes, which is good).

Should've targeted Jai Arrow last year... was on that list of guys to gamble on I reeled off while bitching about our middles and recruitment for the umpteenth time. All the minutes, offloads and defence of Blair... but with real workrate on attack and none of the bs. Has proven to be a great modern day 13.

 

[Scott]

Fair call on Tolman, i must admit I watch with my eyes rather than pouring over data & didn't think he was all that bad.

Woods can pump out big minutes & yardage, has an offload, which suits our style. I think we should be asking the question of the Bulldogs or Isaac Moses (his manager). Interestingly enough Moses manages Kearney, Blake Green, Adam Blair & a couple of others at the club. If we don't ask the question, the recruitment team isn't doing their job properly.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Woods is one of those ones you just know wouldn't come, when he's commanding 800k in Sydney now. Maybe he'd consider it at the end of his career when no one else wanted him, and that's not a time we want to get him.

We have Bunty, Gavet, Paasi, Ah Mau now and guys who haven't developed like Lisone and Vete. Now is the time to start developing our young talent that isn't already in the NRL squad - and for O'Sullivan to identify and bring through big young talented props. There's more Packers, more Matulinos, more Bromwichs around - we just have to get them on our books and turn them into NRL quality. Enough of the shopping, it's not a solid long-term strategy in our market.

 

[Iafeta]

Yep - with the Eels we have the weakest middle in the comp - I don't buy the Mannering bashing, he's the issue, it's that Paasi and Afoa are promising but as you say they are not elite middle, Blair is just a waste of money, Gavet is like a unicorn, Vete and Lisone have not amounted to anything... Kearney made the call to let Matulino and Lillyman go for different reasons and replace them with Blair and Paasi... he has to live with it

Ah Mau is a great signing, but again while he's been excellent at the Dragons that's as 3rd or 4th banana as you put it - we'll still have a middle that's a collection of 3rd and 4th bananas

I don’t believe they made a call on Matulino. More Matulino wanting a change and wanting Ivan.

Lillyman in hindsight is fine. Well past his used by date. Certainly not doing well in the Hunter.

Ah Mau will add plenty.

The thing that was working earlier this season is we had agile good leg speed props in the middle, and they were also running good short lines off playmakers too, and size on both sides back row. Pulus absence I think is being felt. Papali’i is doing a great job for his age and shows tremendous potential and his application defensively is very good, but at the moment he’s not offering much ball in hand.

A lot of what was good earlier is now not happening. Pulu is injured and I think our props look tired so are lacking the leg drive.

The thing that is probably most frustrating is Vete and Lisone. Both were world beaters in NYC. But Lisone, after a good start, has seemingly lost the plot, and Vete it seems has consigned himself to being no more than a park footballer. Lisone could have, if he developed, been a player who could gain metres and tip the ball on. And Vete is a big bloke. Problem is Sam lacks football intelligence which means his ball playing instinct never comes through, and Albert lumbers like a pregnant walrus to the line.

What I would like to know is who did Ligi Sao screw over? He’s looked good all season IMO and after being a good part of the 5-0 run, never gets in the 21 man squad. If I’m Ligi or Charnze tbh I’m probably getting my agent to make enquiries.

 

[RHYTHM AND STEALTH]

We have lost 1 away from home and have lost 3 at Mt Smart

Why?????

Id say its the conditions not suitable to our squad and game plan. All the losses at home were in duey underfoot conditions or in rain, Not combatible to our quick fleet footed style we play in the forwards. Luckily we have no more Saturday night games at Mt SMart. But unless we have dry conditions underfoot i feel we will struggle up front then our whole style is on the backfoot

 

[sup42]

I do not like the way Vete backs into the tackle...a habit he picked up from Lilyman.

I agree we need to develop the new blood, Papalii is a mere teenager ! What a talent.

Bunty is one of the better props going round at the moment.

Watching the Dogs make something of RFM is sobering, I never thought he would get with the program defensively not up to it when he arrived at the dogs.

Bunty played his first year out of position, he is a Prop...a real one...so is Paasi...the Warriors need to settle these guys into one position if they show promise as Props leave them there....props are the new Stars.

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

Bunty is one of the better props going round at the moment...Bunty played his first year out of position, he is a Prop...a real one...

I see Bunty as our most improved player. He's running a lot harder this year and is doing better in defence too. He is on the right track but still has a fair way to go before becoming one of the top props like David Klemmer, Andrew Fifita, Jesse Bromwich, Nelson Asofa Solomona, Dylan Napa etc..

 

[TheDMC]

David Klemmer, Andrew Fifita, Jesse Bromwich, Nelson Asofa Solomona, Dylan Napa etc..

Those dudes are all much bigger specimens.

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

Those dudes are all much bigger specimens.

Yep they just happen to be but my point is that, THESE guys are the better props going around. I rate Bunty under those guys. Matt Scotts another one, hes shorter.

 

[JJ]

Tolman >>>> Blair

 

[JJ]

Bunty is one of the better props going round at the moment.

.

Depends on what you mean by better?

He's about average across the NRL IMO, but young and promising.

Burgess twins treated him like he was Brett Hodgson

 

[Rich102]

Bunty will gain value when the interchange is reduced.
The more minutes you can play the better.