Jewels fit for a Crown

[Old Timer]

There is no doubt we already have a lot of jewels in our system and we desperately need to keep most if not all of them and have them put into a premiership crown we can wear for several years.
On the basis these guys have enough skill imagine a squad looking like this for 2020.
Yes 2020 not 21 or 22 it is high time we stop delaying progress..
Dufty
Garrick
Lomax
Masters
Mann
Sailor
Field
Sele
Host
Leilua
Lawrie
Robson
Kerr
Dufty, Host, Leilua, Sele, Mann, Lawrie need to be NRL hardened players taking on the senior rolls and the others should be in their 2nd full year of NRL.
We need to stop talking about all the "depth" and "journeymen" and forget about short term contracts that we think will fix long term intrenched problems.
Get these guys prepared and ready for the best 5-7 year stint our club could possibly have.
Coupled with these you may still very well have Frizz, Vaughan, Mc Innes, JDB still putting in at extremely high levels.
Now tell me there isn't a high quality coach that wouldn't be tempted by such potential riches?

 

[TheOnlyTeam]

And that's without Ben Hunt.

 

[possm]

The real jewel in our premiership crown will be Hasler. As soon as the Club bites the bullet and employs a top grade coaching staff, the sooner our young guns and team in general will rise to the top of the ladder.

 

[KiamaSaint]

And that's without Ben Hunt.

Yes, Ben will be our halfback for the next 5 years I would imagine.

 

[Crush]

2020?
Didn't Widdop and Hunt sign massive long term deals?
Or have they been dropped in this scenario to make way for Sailor and Field?

 

[Old Timer]

2020?
Didn't Widdop and Hunt sign massive long term deals?
Or have they been dropped in this scenario to make way for Sailor and Field?

So they signed long term deals.
They are already on the older side so IMO are all expendable if others offer greater ability and longevity.
Hunt and Widdop are our now and our immediate tomorrow but TBH are they our future?
I fully expect some of these youngsters to go well past them and it is just a case of will it be at our club or someone else's.

 

[Old Timer]

Yes, Ben will be our halfback for the next 5 years I would imagine.

As I said at the time of the signing 5 years we had to be kidding.
I see it as a good signing for a few years but I never believed he was that good that would should hitch our waggon to him for 5 years.
I see some in here are willing to have the "well while ever he has a contract we have to keep picking him" philosophy and thats exactly why Nighty will continue to be picked.
Anyway let's see if the juniors get some quality time when Hunt & Co are on rep duties etc or whether we go down the Nicholls route.

 

[BennyV]

OT, if you expect to run that side out in 2 years time, look forward to sitting in the bottom 4.

NO team goes anywhere with that sort of team - the oldest bloke there is a 25yo winger, you've got front row all under the age of 24, the smallest and least experienced spine in history, including a halfback who is a fullback/58 and has shown no signs of ability to direct a team around and I can't see a single player in there with a recognised kicking game. What's worst of all, to put that team on teh paddock you've got rid of 6 elite, top line players to make it happen (Friz, Widdop, Hunt, Vaughan, McInnes, DeBelin).

So with all due respect, i think you need to lie down...

 

[kit66]

Dufty
Garrick
Lomax
Masters
Mann
Sailor
Field
Sele
Host
Leilua
Lawrie
Robson
Kerr

Coupled with these you may still very well have Frizz, Vaughan, Mc Innes, JDB still putting in at extremely high levels.

Now tell me there isn't a high quality coach that wouldn't be tempted by such potential riches?[/QUOTE]

There'll be 15 coaches very tempted by that lot. But I know what you mean.

There's a lot of angst about the way our club runs things but they should be commended for holding onto what is an outstanding crop of youngsters. They've weeded out a lot of young guys who would likely fail to make that major step from 20's up to the big boys league and kept only the very best. I know we're all now screaming for these young guys to get a shot but that will come. Now that we have a real Reserve Grade we can ease these boys into the weekly grind against men where they'll pick up valuable skills and have an opportunity to prove themselves. Some of them simply aren't ready for 1st grade, despite what we might think and I'm happy to let our coaches, the guys on the ground make those decisions. Diamonds are worth a lot more shaped and polished, otherwise you just have a very expensive rock.

 

[Old Timer]

OT, if you expect to run that side out in 2 years time, look forward to sitting in the bottom 4.

NO team goes anywhere with that sort of team - the oldest bloke there is a 25yo winger, you've got front row all under the age of 24, the smallest and least experienced spine in history, including a halfback who is a fullback/58 and has shown no signs of ability to direct a team around and I can't see a single player in there with a recognised kicking game. What's worst of all, to put that team on teh paddock you've got rid of 6 elite, top line players to make it happen (Friz, Widdop, Hunt, Vaughan, McInnes, DeBelin).

So with all due respect, i think you need to lie down...

With all due respect I suggest you wake up from your slumber and read the post properly next time.
I said a "squad" with them in it and also included JDB, Frizz, Vaughan & Mc Innes as players that may still be here and contributing at high levels.
So obviously if they are still here we have a lot more than 1 x 25 year old winger.
By the way what makes you so sure Filed is a FB just because Millward says so?
If Dufty is the FB and Field is also also only a FB then one of them won't be here.

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

There's much reliance on youngsters whose bona fides are yet to be determined against men in reserve grade, let alone the NRL.

While the potential is there, a caveat needs to be applied after the experience of the 2005 Jersey Flegg premiership winning squad (coached by Steve Price) which blitzed the competition by a considerable margin. From memory, it posted 100 points in a single game at Kogarah against a Central Coast team.

The point here is clear. Despite an over abundance of talent, not too many players from this team had long first grade careers.

Again from memory: the Morris twins, Nightingale, Merrin and (unbelievably, Beau Ryan) were the only ones that excelled. The others faded into oblivion.

 

[Como Connection]

The real jewel in our premiership crown will be Hasler. As soon as the Club bites the bullet and employs a top grade coaching staff, the sooner our young guns and team in general will rise to the top of the ladder.

What about Tony Smith for 2019!
No information at all, but I would be happy if so.
CC

 

[BennyV]

With all due respect I suggest you wake up from your slumber and read the post properly next time.
I said a "squad" with them in it and also included JDB, Frizz, Vaughan & Mc Innes as players that may still be here and contributing at high levels.
So obviously if they are still here we have a lot more than 1 x 25 year old winger.
By the way what makes you so sure Filed is a FB just because Millward says so?
If Dufty is the FB and Field is also also only a FB then one of them won't be here.

Fair enough - got confused by the fact that you listed them as a 1-13, and the fact that we currently have those guys in our squad!

So you're happy to offload Hunt and Widdop in 2 years (likely still paying big parts of their salary) for Sailor and Field, who will have little-to-no first grade experience in them (due to Widdop/Hunt playing there)? And I say Field for FB due to his skillset - small, slim, quick and can throw a decent pass. Suits FB or 5/8, but he doesnt have the game-control to be a halfback. Likewise Sailor (as seen in last years semi when Sailor played 7, completely different team to when Willis played there).

In reality, chances are we are going to lose one of Field or Dufty, along with a couple of others, because to expect them all to come through in one hit is silliness. The sooner people accept that, the better. You only need to look at Newcastle the last 3 years to see what happens when you aim to bring all the kids through at once - and they had a much, much better coach than us!

 

[Old Timer]

Fair enough - got confused by the fact that you listed them as a 1-13, and the fact that we currently have those guys in our squad!

So you're happy to offload Hunt and Widdop in 2 years (likely still paying big parts of their salary) for Sailor and Field, who will have little-to-no first grade experience in them (due to Widdop/Hunt playing there)? And I say Field for FB due to his skillset - small, slim, quick and can throw a decent pass. Suits FB or 5/8, but he doesnt have the game-control to be a halfback. Likewise Sailor (as seen in last years semi when Sailor played 7, completely different team to when Willis played there).

In reality, chances are we are going to lose one of Field or Dufty, along with a couple of others, because to expect them all to come through in one hit is silliness. The sooner people accept that, the better. You only need to look at Newcastle the last 3 years to see what happens when you aim to bring all the kids through at once - and they had a much, much better coach than us!

You seem to miss the intent of the post which is about attracting "the best" coach.

"Now tell me there isn't a high quality coach that wouldn't be tempted by such potential riches?"

I simply named 11 juniors (I think) and 2 poorly used purchases as part of an NRL squad and the list shows the coverage you get by having these players as part of the squad and all of them have been mentioned in here by many different posters as having real potential.
You have the obvious requirement to fill the rest of the squad and will use those existing players that remain with the club.
If you have all or nearly all of this you certainly don't need any Allgood, Nicholls, Latimore signings.
Interesting you appear have resistance to 20 year olds getting prepared for NRL positions so I deduce that the Cleary's, Mitchell's, Ponga's, Vinavalu's and the like would all have to wait if they had of been at our club if you were in charge?
If Bellamy was announced as our coach do you think that would influence young players decisions and lessen the effect of losing them?
Do you think under Bellamy with these players in the squad that we could challenge for the title over quite a long period?

 

[Seoul Dragon]

This process is not unlike product life cycle management a business deals with.
The skill lies in marrying short, medium and long term opportunities, accepting it's not all going to happen overnight and taking hard decisions when needed.

Despite some lingering concerns on key positions, seems to me we are on the right path, making the tough calls (Dugan ....), recruiting well (Graham, Hunt) and whilst we will loose some of the juniors going forward, we should manage/identify who and not have the decisions made for us.

And of course, as Possm says above and most of us know, we need a top grade coach.

It won't all come together until we lock down a top tier coach to oversee it all for 4-5 years.

 

[BennyV]

You seem to miss the intent of the post which is about attracting "the best" coach.

"Now tell me there isn't a high quality coach that wouldn't be tempted by such potential riches?"

I simply named 11 juniors (I think) and 2 poorly used purchases as part of an NRL squad and the list shows the coverage you get by having these players as part of the squad and all of them have been mentioned in here by many different posters as having real potential.
You have the obvious requirement to fill the rest of the squad and will use those existing players that remain with the club.
If you have all or nearly all of this you certainly don't need any Allgood, Nicholls, Latimore signings.
Interesting you appear have resistance to 20 year olds getting prepared for NRL positions so I deduce that the Cleary's, Mitchell's, Ponga's, Vinavalu's and the like would all have to wait if they had of been at our club if you were in charge?
If Bellamy was announced as our coach do you think that would influence young players decisions and lessen the effect of losing them?
Do you think under Bellamy with these players in the squad that we could challenge for the title over quite a long period?

You have me wrong OT. I am all for youngsters getting a run, what I’m against is throwing them in without a plan for their development and without a true pecking order. If you look at the top youngsters who’ve come through over the last few, most (if not all) spent a decent amount of time in reserve grade AND bounced back and forth between NRL and Reggie’s to allowed them to be fully ready for the step up full time. And even after bursting into the scene, they plateau. People calling for a team of youngsters are just unrealistic - even those expecting Lomax or Field to jump straight into our 13 from u20s are kissing themselves. There’s a correct pathway for each player and if we can make sure these kids take it, we’ll reap the benefits. Sele is a very good example - fast tracked from NYC to NSW Cup, spent a year there and is now ready to make a step up full time. Host is another, and I expect these guys will be in high demand come contract time.

FTR, I’d be starting the year with Herbert at RC and Mann on the left wing, Host at left edge and Leilua/Sele on the bench. Lomax and Garrick are first cabs off the rank for injury to the backs. Robson should be gunning for a bench spot by Round 18.

 

[Saintsified]

There is no doubt we already have a lot of jewels in our system and we desperately need to keep most if not all of them and have them put into a premiership crown we can wear for several years.
On the basis these guys have enough skill imagine a squad looking like this for 2020.
Yes 2020 not 21 or 22 it is high time we stop delaying progress..
Dufty
Garrick
Lomax
Masters
Mann
Sailor
Field
Sele
Host
Leilua
Lawrie
Robson
Kerr
Dufty, Host, Leilua, Sele, Mann, Lawrie need to be NRL hardened players taking on the senior rolls and the others should be in their 2nd full year of NRL.
We need to stop talking about all the "depth" and "journeymen" and forget about short term contracts that we think will fix long term intrenched problems.
Get these guys prepared and ready for the best 5-7 year stint our club could possibly have.
Coupled with these you may still very well have Frizz, Vaughan, Mc Innes, JDB still putting in at extremely high levels.
Now tell me there isn't a high quality coach that wouldn't be tempted by such potential riches?

Is this an exercise where I put in (brackets) which club I think they'll end up with?

 

[slippery5]

There is no doubt we already have a lot of jewels in our system and we desperately need to keep most if not all of them and have them put into a premiership crown we can wear for several years.
On the basis these guys have enough skill imagine a squad looking like this for 2020.
Yes 2020 not 21 or 22 it is high time we stop delaying progress..
Dufty
Garrick
Lomax
Masters
Mann
Sailor
Field
Sele
Host
Leilua
Lawrie
Robson
Kerr
Dufty, Host, Leilua, Sele, Mann, Lawrie need to be NRL hardened players taking on the senior rolls and the others should be in their 2nd full year of NRL.
We need to stop talking about all the "depth" and "journeymen" and forget about short term contracts that we think will fix long term intrenched problems.
Get these guys prepared and ready for the best 5-7 year stint our club could possibly have.
Coupled with these you may still very well have Frizz, Vaughan, Mc Innes, JDB still putting in at extremely high levels.
Now tell me there isn't a high quality coach that wouldn't be tempted by such potential riches?

My expectations of Hunt is to mature into a Cooper Cronk type of player, given a more leadership role. My big concern on Field is his lack of power in defence, so who ever steps up between him & Sailor although I'm expect him to head north by this time, (contract expires). I'm not surprised about exclusions of Widdop or Au Mau, I know we have just extended Widdop's contract so that's going to be difficult, but as I said 3 yrs ago, Nighty's time is up, & now, as mentioned in other post, I believe so is Au Mau's, if we really want to be amongst it this year & to be true contenders 2019/20

 

[Old Timer]

You have me wrong OT. I am all for youngsters getting a run, what I’m against is throwing them in without a plan for their development and without a true pecking order. If you look at the top youngsters who’ve come through over the last few, most (if not all) spent a decent amount of time in reserve grade AND bounced back and forth between NRL and Reggie’s to allowed them to be fully ready for the step up full time. And even after bursting into the scene, they plateau. People calling for a team of youngsters are just unrealistic - even those expecting Lomax or Field to jump straight into our 13 from u20s are kissing themselves. There’s a correct pathway for each player and if we can make sure these kids take it, we’ll reap the benefits. Sele is a very good example - fast tracked from NYC to NSW Cup, spent a year there and is now ready to make a step up full time. Host is another, and I expect these guys will be in high demand come contract time.

FTR, I’d be starting the year with Herbert at RC and Mann on the left wing, Host at left edge and Leilua/Sele on the bench. Lomax and Garrick are first cabs off the rank for injury to the backs. Robson should be gunning for a bench spot by Round 18.

I suppose my post is a bit like a rhetorical question.
I wonder how many of the jewels I have named would actually be playing regular 1st grade in 2019 let alone 2020 if Bellamy was already at our club.
In fact I daresay some would already be there for 2018.
The end game of my post I suppose is that, if Mc Fookknuckle is still here in 2020 we will have a few rough cut stones left but other clubs will be happily polishing our best jewels whilst our board and coaching staff are all polishing each other.

 

[BennyV]

I suppose my post is a bit like a rhetorical question.
I wonder how many of the jewels I have named would actually be playing regular 1st grade in 2019 let alone 2020 if Bellamy was already at our club.
In fact I daresay some would already be there for 2018.
The end game of my post I suppose is that, if Mc Fookknuckle is still here in 2020 we will have a few rough cut stones left but other clubs will be happily polishing our best jewels whilst our board and coaching staff are all polishing each other.

Bellamy is an interesting choice of example - he's a guy who doesnt just throw undone youngsters into first grade without taking the right steps. He's also a forward planner, buying youngsters in advance and working to get them ready for full-time first grade. Croft is a good case in point - made his debut 2 years ago and is only now getting a full time spot, after being a proper understudy to Cronk. Munster was similar (until Slater got injured), Curtis Scott spent a year in reggies before getting a full time run in firsts, Ado-Carr bounced between firsts and reggies at Tigpies...chances are that if Bellamy was out coach, all of them wouldnt have had a shot but the best of them would be 100% ready to go...