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John ribot on sterlo...

Stormwarrior82

Juniors
Messages
1,036
But you want the bears to look after the central coast plus there own local area? WTF?

You want the roosters (a true top line foundation club with all that history and recent success) leave the central coast and just look after there local area. Is the roosters local area smaller than north Sydney’s catchment? But your happy for north Sydney to take central coast? Maybe north Sydney need to win back some of there locals before they even think of taking central coast back as well?
 

Stormwarrior82

Juniors
Messages
1,036
Agreed...one of the big problems in the history of rugby league is as soon as it gets too hard we move away and give up, take the easy option.

That’s a strange way of saying it?? I would of thought keeping failing clubs afloat by continually giving them money would be the easy option? Would it not? The hard option is to cop the barrage of criticism and potential anger from members/fans. All the merging and relegating of clubs happened to clubs that financially hadn’t truely made it in or out of the super league fiasco. The hard option is definitely to relegate a team.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,723
I followed the Steelers until the merge, now i am a Knights fan...

(I will never support a Dragons team, but i am not delusional enough to think the Steelers could have survived on their own. I DEFINITELY dont think they have some divine right to a place in the NRL.)

Isn't it funny how so many of us on this side of the argument have lost clubs, you the Steelers, PR the Reds, myself the Bears, and yet we are the ones arguing most fervently for further rationalisation against a group of people that haven't lost a club and only have a fear of it and secondly swear that all the fans of the dead teams are lost to the sport forever.

Just an interesting observation.
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,965
That’s a strange way of saying it?? I would of thought keeping failing clubs afloat by continually giving them money would be the easy option? Would it not? The hard option is to cop the barrage of criticism and potential anger from members/fans. All the merging and relegating of clubs happened to clubs that financially hadn’t truely made it in or out of the super league fiasco. The hard option is definitely to relegate a team.

Here's another way of saying it, rather than the Roosters spending money and providing resources on developing the game in there own area they take the easy option and claim the Central Coast as theirs, no work required.
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,965
All the merging and relegating of clubs happened to clubs that financially hadn’t truely made it in or out of the super league fiasco. The hard option is definitely to relegate a team.

You think Cronulla were a powerhouse after Superleague, even the Storm were heavily funded by News Ltd, Auckland etc.
Alot of the ARL clubs were fine until superleague came along.
The only reason News Ltd wanted clubs cut was because they had driven the game to the bones of it's arse turned thousands off it and didn't have the revenue to support more than 14 clubs. 90 years of growing came down to some dweeby News Ltd accountant/executives decision. No thought the game could grow again (as happened in the AFL) because they wanted their 700 million back or whatever the figure was.
The public was sold "merge or die" by the News Ltd press, and as Souths have shown given time and a more professional outlook clubs that once struggled could be very productive in the NRL.
And remember no one is against expansion, it's also about protecting the bedrock and fabric of the traditional game. Without tradition what have we got, take cricket what would it be without Test cricket, just endless meaningless 20/20 games.
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,965
Isn't it funny how so many of us on this side of the argument have lost clubs, you the Steelers, PR the Reds, myself the Bears, and yet we are the ones arguing most fervently for further rationalisation against a group of people that haven't lost a club and only have a fear of it and secondly swear that all the fans of the dead teams are lost to the sport forever.

Just an interesting observation.

You must not have been much of a passionate Bears fan if you can move on so easily.

Ever seen the English signs at games like "Wigan 'till I die" etc. It is unheard of in Melbourne AFl, people stick through thick and thin and fight for their clubs, that's passion, rugby league sadly lacks it.
 

King hit

Coach
Messages
13,756
You must not have been much of a passionate Bears fan if you can move on so easily.

Ever seen the English signs at games like "Wigan 'till I die" etc. It is unheard of in Melbourne AFl, people stick through thick and thin and fight for their clubs, that's passion, rugby league sadly lacks it.

100,000 people marched through the streets to keep their club and took it to court. That is passion in the extreme.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,407
You must not have been much of a passionate Bears fan if you can move on so easily.

Ever seen the English signs at games like "Wigan 'till I die" etc. It is unheard of in Melbourne AFl, people stick through thick and thin and fight for their clubs, that's passion, rugby league sadly lacks it.

I've always been a fan of the game as much as my clubs.

Its going to be interesting now clubs have no excuses with $3mill a year coming in, a salary cap significantly lower and a football cap that should ensure financial management.

The excuses really are over for them and if they cant make it now they probably never will. Next step would have to be to go to a AFL system and having unequal grants to save failing clubs, but good luck getting the big NRL clubs to agree to that!
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,723
You must not have been much of a passionate Bears fan if you can move on so easily.

Ever seen the English signs at games like "Wigan 'till I die" etc. It is unheard of in Melbourne AFl, people stick through thick and thin and fight for their clubs, that's passion, rugby league sadly lacks it.

I'll cop that, kind of at least, though I wouldn't say that I', not a passionate Bears fan or that I moved on from the Bears easily, I wouldn't even say that I've moved on from the Bears at all... Things just changed radically for RL in Canberra and the surrounding regions in between the time that I got into RL as a child and the time that the Bears dropped out of the NRL...

I was born and raise in Canberra (lived most of my life here), but I grew up before the Raiders were even a twinkle in Les McIntyre's eye, my dad was a Rabbitohs fan and my mom was a Bears fan and I basically had a choice between the two and I went with the Bears cause I liked bears more then fluffy white bunnies.
Anyhow long story short like most RL fans in Canberra and Queanbeyan at the time I had my team in the NSWRL (and the BRL for that matter) that I'd been following for most of my life when the Raiders started up but picked up tickets to the Raiders cause it was a chance to see good footy regularly, the Raiders quickly became my "second team" as they did most of the RL fans in Canberra at the time, and eventually they took over as my "main team" around 87ish (in my case) again like most RL fans in Canberra.

None of that negates my being a Bears fan, I still love the Bears to this day, I still have a massive soft spot for them, still have most of my old Bears stuff (the only stuff I don't still have is the stuff that broke or fell apart from use), and if I had the time I'd follow them more closely (the same is true of the Raiders honestly), it's just the whole paradigm shifted when the Raiders came into the NSWRL, it gave us (the people of Canberra) a club that we could call our own, that wasn't an option before but it was now, and even though we resisted it at first (I can remember saying stuff like 'I'll always be a Bears fan first' etc, early on) eventually almost all of us jumped at the opportunity to support a team that we could really call our own and that really represented us.

I would love to see the Bears back in the NRL, however I understand that it'd be a very bad thing for the competition and sport as a whole if they were to come back on the CC, and dispite my emotions for the Bears what is best for the sport and as many of it's stakeholders as possible should always come first. However if the Bears were to move to Brisbane, Adelaide, etc, and had a good business plan and bid maybe I'd support that bid.
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,965
I'll cop that, kind of at least, though I wouldn't say that I', not a passionate Bears fan or that I moved on from the Bears easily, I wouldn't even say that I've moved on from the Bears at all... Things just changed radically for RL in Canberra and the surrounding regions in between the time that I got into RL as a child and the time that the Bears dropped out of the NRL...

I was born and raise in Canberra (lived most of my life here), but I grew up before the Raiders were even a twinkle in Les McIntyre's eye, my dad was a Rabbitohs fan and my mom was a Bears fan and I basically had a choice between the two and I went with the Bears cause I liked bears more then fluffy white bunnies.
Anyhow long story short like most RL fans in Canberra and Queanbeyan at the time I had my team in the NSWRL (and the BRL for that matter) that I'd been following for most of my life when the Raiders started up but picked up tickets to the Raiders cause it was a chance to see good footy regularly, the Raiders quickly became my "second team" as they did most of the RL fans in Canberra at the time, and eventually they took over as my "main team" around 87ish (in my case) again like most RL fans in Canberra.

None of that negates my being a Bears fan, I still love the Bears to this day, I still have a massive soft spot for them, still have most of my old Bears stuff (the only stuff I don't still have is the stuff that broke or fell apart from use), and if I had the time I'd follow them more closely (the same is true of the Raiders honestly), it's just the whole paradigm shifted when the Raiders came into the NSWRL, it gave us (the people of Canberra) a club that we could call our own, that wasn't an option before but it was now, and even though we resisted it at first (I can remember saying stuff like 'I'll always be a Bears fan first' etc, early on) eventually almost all of us jumped at the opportunity to support a team that we could really call our own and that really represented us.

I would love to see the Bears back in the NRL, however I understand that it'd be a very bad thing for the competition and sport as a whole if they were to come back on the CC, and dispite my emotions for the Bears what is best for the sport and as many of it's stakeholders as possible should always come first. However if the Bears were to move to Brisbane, Adelaide, etc, and had a good business plan and bid maybe I'd support that bid.

Wouldn't it be great if we could have both. Why would it be bad if the Bears came back in? I don't see it.
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,965
I've always been a fan of the game as much as my clubs.

Its going to be interesting now clubs have no excuses with $3mill a year coming in, a salary cap significantly lower and a football cap that should ensure financial management.

The excuses really are over for them and if they cant make it now they probably never will. Next step would have to be to go to a AFL system and having unequal grants to save failing clubs, but good luck getting the big NRL clubs to agree to that!

Perth will have a team in the next few years, mark my words.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,723
Wouldn't it be great if we could have both. Why would it be bad if the Bears came back in? I don't see it.

It wouldn't necessarily be bad if the Bears came back, however it would be bad if the CC got a team.

The lack of value that the CC add to the broadcasting rights, the fact that the CC almost certainly wouldn't be able to support a club on their own which would mean that they'd have to lean on the Sydney market, which in turn leads to problems with the over saturation in the Sydney market, the fact that realistically the NRL and RL as a whole has already got a dominate market share on the CC and I can't see that being changed significantly by adding a team in the NRL and that of course means that they aren't a new market that the NRL would be cracking into which is what it desperately needs right now, I could go on but I think you get the idea, but the main reason is simply that there're heaps of better options out there that would add more value in a whole range of areas then the CC and that we don't need another club in NSW when we already have 10 in a competition of 16.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,407
Nrl hasnt a great track record of regional clubs viability. Steelers had to merge, Gosford was abandoned, Townsville had to be bailed out and needed a once in a lifetime player to come along to get them out of the sht, Canberra only survive due to a pokie empire, knights have gone bust, bailed out, gone bust and bailed out again, gc have c9me and gone numerous times. Is there a reason the afl stick to capital cities I wonder?
 

mongoose

Coach
Messages
11,214
Nrl hasnt a great track record of regional clubs viability. Steelers had to merge, Gosford was abandoned, Townsville had to be bailed out and needed a once in a lifetime player to come along to get them out of the sht, Canberra only survive due to a pokie empire, knights have gone bust, bailed out, gone bust and bailed out again, gc have c9me and gone numerous times. Is there a reason the afl stick to capital cities I wonder?

Knights, Cowboys and even the Titans have all averaged more than 20k crowds at some point during their existence, which means their is potential for it again. The freezing cold weather affects the Raiders crowds, that's just how it is.
The Storm haven't broken 20k yet... they had a massive kick start from News ltd as well as far as getting setup financially.

I wouldn't knock the regional teams...
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,965
100,000 people marched through the streets to keep their club and took it to court. That is passion in the extreme.

That's
It wouldn't necessarily be bad if the Bears came back, however it would be bad if the CC got a team.

The lack of value that the CC add to the broadcasting rights, the fact that the CC almost certainly wouldn't be able to support a club on their own which would mean that they'd have to lean on the Sydney market, which in turn leads to problems with the over saturation in the Sydney market, the fact that realistically the NRL and RL as a whole has already got a dominate market share on the CC and I can't see that being changed significantly by adding a team in the NRL and that of course means that they aren't a new market that the NRL would be cracking into which is what it desperately needs right now, I could go on but I think you get the idea, but the main reason is simply that there're heaps of better options out there that would add more value in a whole range of areas then the CC and that we don't need another club in NSW when we already have 10 in a competition of 16.

Who's talking about 16 teams I want the comp to have 20 plus teams. It shouldn't matter what states the cities or regions are in as long as big population areas are represented. The area from the Sydney harbour bridge through to Newcastle has no team. Must be an area of near 1 million and growing.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,723
Who's talking about 16 teams I want the comp to have 20 plus teams.

I was talking about the amount of representation and market share that the clubs have as a whole in the current competition, and NSW and Sydneys' is way to high by the current numbers.

I'll let you do the exact maths for yourself, but Sydney doesn't represent more then 50% of the population of Australia or more then 50% of the money circulating in the economy, but it does represent more then 50% of the representation of the NRL and 50% of the NRLs' 'franchises' (for lack of a better word), are you starting to see the problem.

And as for a 20 plus team comp, the NRL would have be able to support that amount of clubs, under the current structure of the NRL it could support 24 at a stretch (realistically only 20-22), but 8 more spots in the competition isn't enough spots for everybody that should be in the NRL long term, so for the NRL to grow as big as possible and be as successful as possible it's going to have to rationalise and restructure the competition, it's just an inevitability.

It shouldn't matter what states the cities or regions are in as long as big population areas are represented. The area from the Sydney harbour bridge through to Newcastle has no team. Must be an area of near 1 million and growing.

And you've just hit one of the main problems with the CC bid right on the head!
To let them in somebody else has to miss out and there're plenty of better options floating around out there.

The population of the CC as of 2016 was 335 thousand (so nowhere near 1 mil and it's not going to reach 1 mil for a very long time), and we currently have a ton of populations bigger and more valuable (broadcasting, advertising, and sponsorship wise) either going without representation or under represented.

The CC is growing, but so is everywhere else, so realistically by the time that they'd be a reasonable option for expansion by todays' standards (which is roughly somewhere around 2050) they wont be by the standards of the of that time cause the rest of the population will have changed as well, and so will have the sports reach to be ability to break into new markets that nobody would take seriously currently.

Also the spread of clubs matters for all sorts of reasons, but some of the main ones are value to broadcasters, sponsors, corporates, etc, the amount of people directly represented by the spread of clubs in your comp, and the legitimacy of the competition as a national competition, and frankly speaking if you can't cover all of the NSW market with 10 clubs then you're doing it wrong, and we are doing it wrong cause we have 9 of those 10 clubs all fighting for the finite resources in 1 city, a big city yes, but not one big enough to support 9 NRL clubs.
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,965
I was talking about the amount of representation and market share that the clubs have as a whole in the current competition, and NSW and Sydneys' is way to high by the current numbers.

I'll let you do the exact maths for yourself, but Sydney doesn't represent more then 50% of the population of Australia or more then 50% of the money circulating in the economy, but it does represent more then 50% of the representation of the NRL and 50% of the NRLs' 'franchises' (for lack of a better word), are you starting to see the problem.

And as for a 20 plus team comp, the NRL would have be able to support that amount of clubs, under the current structure of the NRL it could support 24 at a stretch (realistically only 20-22), but 8 more spots in the competition isn't enough spots for everybody that should be in the NRL long term, so for the NRL to grow as big as possible and be as successful as possible it's going to have to rationalise and restructure the competition, it's just an inevitability.

I didn't say 24 teams tomorrow, I was referring to the game working towards 20 plus teams over a number of years. Grow the game so it can achieve this by putting plans into place.

Sydney may not have 50% of all you say but I bet you Sydney generates more than 50% of the games revenue.

I'm pretty certain Perth and Brisbane 2 will join the comp soon, where do you suggest the rest of the teams come from, Ballarat? Darwin? Rockhampton? Or the mighty missing piece that will save RL....Adelaide?

If you restructure and rationalise like it's some accountants play thing, failing to take into consideration emotional attachment, you may as well kiss this game goodbye, because I know I will and so will thousands of others or they will just have a passing interest because the passion will be dead.
 
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