Just Hang On - Let Me Get This Right.........

Discussion in 'St George Illawarra Dragons' started by mickeylane, Mar 17, 2017.

  1. mickeylane

    mickeylane Juniors

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,223
    Likes Received:
    378
    So Josh Dugan is being told by the club (Retention Team) that they are only considering him as a centre and accordingly will only offer him a top Centres salary.....Can any one else see a fundamental flaw in the clubs offer and thinking?

    Lets take the first potential problem - What if Dugan does accept the reduced offer based on the fact he's been considered as a centre and come 4th week of the 2018 season and the 1st grade Fb at the time lets say Jai Field is not doing well or gets injured and Dugan is asked to fill in at Fullback and for whatever reason he performs to his optimum and retains his position for the rest of the season at FB - what conundrum does that throw up from a players perspective?

    Second potential problem - Presuming theres a new coach coming in - has there ever in the history of the game a been situation where a retention committee has told or instructed a coach where to play a specific player?

    The new incoming coach may not agree w the retention committee to playing Dugan at Centre as the respective coach may see fit that for whatever purposes at the time he's best suited to playing FB for the team and thats it because in his mind his job is to get the team winning and he will do whatever he has to do to ensure thats the case.

    And lastly based on the potential that Dugan will be chosen to play FB by his new coach does he in fact refuse to play FB on the basis that he was told by the club that he will only be ever considered as a centre....because the analogy for us normal folk is what if our current employer has come to us and said as of next year we are only considering using your services as a junior supervisor and will no longer be needed to be the General Manager - you accept the position but after only 4 weeks you are thrust back in the General Managers position and taking on all the responsibilities of that role - what would you do? You would ask to be remunerated accordingly to market value is what you would do...

    Well the same thinking may apply here w Dugan and his mgt if for some reason after accepting the reduced offer he is thrust back into the Fullback Role....

    I think overall this thinking of putting players in little compartments 12mnths out and announcing next year our 2 hookers will be Robson and Mciness you are cutting your nose to spite your face because in my train of thought I thought that the incoming coach has the say how he wants to use the players and where he wants to play them...theres not a chance in the world any coach of any credible standing will be told where to play a player by a retention committee...no chance!! and there lies another problem...

    Does anyone agree here ...
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
  2. Lovemedragons

    Lovemedragons Juniors

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2011
    Messages:
    242
    Likes Received:
    44
    You make some good points. This is the first time I can remember this sort of argument being used to try and discount a player and what does happen in the future if he signs on the centre salary but we need him at fullback. If we only think Dugan is worth 750k then tell him that, stop this crap about positions and there relative worth, it doesn't sit right.
     
    Qdf, ALSGI and mickeylane like this.
  3. muzby

    muzby Village Idiot Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    29,506
    Likes Received:
    2,568
    If only there was a josh Dugan thread we could discuss these issues in..
     
  4. possm

    possm Bench

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2011
    Messages:
    3,961
    Likes Received:
    906
    As usual the Dugan situation is a mess. The Club has had plenty of opportunity to sign Dugan prior to announcing the deal with Hunt. The Hunt deal has set the new high bar at the Dragons.

    Millward likes to strut around make himself the focus of any new signings or contract extensions. Well the fact is he should have signed up Dugan for 800k lat last year before the deal with Hunt was announced.

    I'm confident we will lose Dugan and possibly Widdop. With this in mind Millward will use this situation to go back on his statement regarding Bird and sign Bird on a salary of 800k-850k.

    Then depending on performances in 2017, Dufty, Field and Mann will contest for the fullback and five-eighth positions. Bird will play either fullback or five-eighth and either Field, Dufty, Mann or maybe even Hutch will be playing in the spine.

     
    Qdf and mickeylane like this.
  5. Vinnie

    Vinnie Juniors

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2012
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    55
    I don't think the Salary Cap is an issue .... lets get real we are supposedly broke but then we pay 1 mill+ a season for Hunt like everything else and everywhere else funds always seem to be found when required.

    Dugan wants to play fullback then let him .... there's no one better or proven at the moment and the contenders are all maybes and speculations whether they prove themselves or not is the gamble. Macregor sees him as a centre ??? Well his fact finding missions and minimal ideas have borne no fruit to date yet ... for f**ks sake he rates and plays Aitken and Lafai over Milne and or Mann and McCrone over everyone else probable even Cronk I'd rather play Packer at half (just saying). I doubt any incoming coach would not play Dugan at Fullback if thats where he want to play. He's Proven !!! He's a game breaker !!! he's an origin and international player !!! Cmon guys. Give him a quality spine to take pressure off him and watch him step up !!!

    Then we have an enourmaous amount of players left (im only mentioning first grade) Nightingale, Dufty, Hutchinson, Lafai, Milne, Mann, Dodd, Widdopp, McCrone, Dodd, fai Fai Loa all off or coming close to end of contract, Aitken, Field, Hunt, McDonald signed That 15 backline players not including Dugan and not including Illawarra or Under 20s players that i missed. Do we really need that many ???? No No No

    Just agree to a price with Dugan (I'm not saying the what he wants but for f**ks sake get it done or move him on) and then lets sort who we want and need and move the rest on and free some funds. Widdop alone is 500k a season. Sorry but give me Dugan over Widdop any day.

    Trial a 5/8 NOW even at 7 and find the most suitable canditate to partner Hunt and already have some first grade experience come 2018. Don't leave McCrone there when he has no future in our team and better still is not performing and has not performed. Mcgregor wasted 12 months between Marshall and McCrone and we are at the same place and forced to pay out 1mill+ for Hunt when u never know we could have had and blooded our own superstar ! are we going to do it again.

    Honestly it's not that hard it can't be !!!

    Sorry about the length but had to get it off my chest.
     
  6. grouch

    grouch First Grade

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
    Messages:
    5,546
    Likes Received:
    1,048
    Money to pay players comes directly from the NRL grant.
     
    dragonssamy61 likes this.
  7. possm

    possm Bench

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2011
    Messages:
    3,961
    Likes Received:
    906
    And money to pay coaching staff comes from Doust's expense account.
     
  8. RufusRex

    RufusRex Immortal

    Joined:
    May 3, 2005
    Messages:
    44,232
    Likes Received:
    1,722
    The big issue .. The club consider Josh Dugan as a centre .. he is right side specialist. The club extended Aitken for 3 years and he is a right side centre ...

    Something seems askew
     
    Qdf likes this.
  9. possm

    possm Bench

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2011
    Messages:
    3,961
    Likes Received:
    906
     
    Qdf likes this.
  10. Vinnie

    Vinnie Juniors

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2012
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    55
    Does the club see Dugan as a centre ?? What would half our board actually know about positions anyway ??? Does Dugan see himself as a centre ??? Nope. He only plays centre for Origin remember the money they get per game in origin he would even play front row if they asked him. Do the players see him as a centre ?? I would probably bet Not. I think it's only the genius with the crystal ball and the immaculate coaching history Ha Ha Macregor that sees him as a centre.

    I think we might find that if coach stays few players are gone anyway and all these talks and suggestions will be pointless anyway.
     
  11. JDHD

    JDHD Juniors

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2016
    Messages:
    154
    Likes Received:
    164
    Honestly, Dugan doesn't score or set up enough tries to justify any more than the 800k that's being offered. Personally, I wouldn't offer him more than 650k and if he's talking rugby then I'm guessing that no other club wants him at his $1 mil price tag either.

    Plus, centre is probably the least demanding position in the game and could add about five years to his career, at which point he's made up any short-term losses he may have incurred taking a slight pay cut from a million to 800k
     
    BrissyRedV likes this.
  12. _Johnsy

    _Johnsy Referee

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2003
    Messages:
    22,932
    Likes Received:
    470
    Simple solution to the "problems" you've mentioned.

    Clauses in his contract pertaining to those issues.

    My preferred solution, Monsieur Dugan, Au revoir. His asking $$ better spent elsewhere. Bang for buck.
     
    Qdf and mickeylane like this.
  13. Old Timer

    Old Timer Bench

    Joined:
    May 1, 2014
    Messages:
    3,313
    Likes Received:
    2,535
    Dugan like any decent player of recent times has played with a shit roster, shit selections, shit spine and shit coaching staff.
    We actually have no f**king idea of how good he can be and have only seen glimpses of this best.
    Dugan is a class footballer and a cut above anything else we have in our backs at this time.
    Field, Dufty are yet to prove themselves and whilst doing so need to be associated with high quality footballers, so why would you let our best go?
    We make Dugan play with all the shitters and as soon as we look like improving the spine with a decent half, people say move him on.
    So the unproven blokes get first dibs with the $million man and the bloke who has rep level quality about him, busted his guts every game he has played for us and who we have continually hampered gets SFA and the punt.
    No wonder we are a basket case as a club we have no idea and supporters who support this type of policy are no better than Mc Gregor, Millward & Co.
    People need to wake up and see what is happening here.
    If Millward has all the say as to the roster what chance any incoming outside coach (if there is one) will get what he wants.
    Now some lunatic is going to say "well we obviously have a new coach and Millward is now doing his bidding" frankly that is just shit talk.
    Any decent coach would be licking his lips at seeing Dugan being fed by Hunt and for that Mc Innes who will in fact only get even better after Hunt's arrival.
    Pay Dugan the $$$, play him FB shut the f**k up, punt Lafai, Mc Crone, Nighty, Aitken get Field to 5/8 or half, Dufty to the wing and Mann and Milne in the centres.
    Then come back and tell me after 10 rounds Dugan isn't worth the money because frankly the people that doubt him give all sorts of lame arse excuses without acknowledging the truth of the matter that we have not presented the best environment for him to excel.
    Then of course there are the that people use the throw away line "let him go the kids will easily replace him".
    Well there is absolutely no certainty that that will happen but it is patently obvious how good Dugan is with a bit of quality around him.
     
    merahputih, emu62, Tuddy and 4 others like this.
  14. Qdf

    Qdf Juniors

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2016
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    149
    Well said OT,
    This is exactly what should be done.
    OT for CEO.....
     
  15. Dragonslayer

    Dragonslayer Juniors

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,846
    Likes Received:
    1,285
    Herein lies the big issue of "spine' money.
    Let's go back a few years to somewhat of a similar occurrence. Graeme Langlands arguably one of our best fullbacks, was forced to play centre for Australia. Now transpose that situation to now. You say to Langalands, you are a centre for Aust so we are going to pay you only centre money, but we know you are a fullback. What would he do? Yeah, you can say things were different back then and of course they were, the Red V meant something and the jumper was cherished by anyone who wore it, but now is now and as Dugan has stated, this is the most important contract of his career, the one to set himself up for when he leaves the game.
    To me the "spine" is a myth.
    Take Parra's spine last week. French at fullback, Gutherson at 6, Norman (yep he's vey good) and Kaysa Pritchard at 9. Let's be real here French, Gutherson and Pritchard would not be demanding $800-1m per season (not yet anyway) yet they have Michael Jennings at centre who is probably on big $$$.
    It takes a team to play Rugby League and whilst we continue to separate players according to position rather than worth, we are going to end up in exactly the situation we are in with Dugan. And it's why the "Jumper" means little to players in todays game. $$$ rule
    For mine you pay Dugan what he's worth and I'm talking about his worth to the team, the club and the supporters and what he brings as an individual representing the Red V.
    This pay by position would just make Langlands shake his head.
     
    Qdf likes this.
  16. BrissyRedV

    BrissyRedV Bench

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Messages:
    3,675
    Likes Received:
    1,262
    What's his current offer? 2.4 over 3? To me that is reasonable for his skill set and standing in the game either as a centre or fullback and may in fact be overs. Ehat have other NRL clubs offered? The club is right to stick by their guns on this. To pay anymore would cripple us salary cap wise for a player who adds very little to the scoreboard off his own bat.
     
  17. rasaint

    rasaint Juniors

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    356
    Likes Received:
    70
    Good on OT sticking to Josh Dugan and the argument about how he needs better players around him then we would see how good he is. Frankly, anyone plays better if you have better players around you. That argument holds true for anyone.

    Josh Dugan is a good player demanding I read $1 million. If anyone else was offering that he would be gone now.

    Last weekend the $1million fullback spilt the ball 2 metres out when tackled Carrying the ball back . Then he dropped an easy catch at the other end, with eels 15 metres out from our line. Of course, Josh could be seen rousing on himself, hitting the ball on his forehead in disgust eyes looking to the heavens.

    I would like Josh to stay on $600 tops. Anything much more is overs. Let's get real. BTW Gareth would be great from fullback he is a keeper and better for the same $.
     
  18. BrissyRedV

    BrissyRedV Bench

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Messages:
    3,675
    Likes Received:
    1,262
    Watch out, you will get hammered for holding an opinion like that. On a side note, he does seem to be Johnny on the spot cleaning up lose balls close to the line and receiving offloads.
     
  19. Old Timer

    Old Timer Bench

    Joined:
    May 1, 2014
    Messages:
    3,313
    Likes Received:
    2,535
    rasaint
    You highlight a couple of individual points from 1 game to try and justify your argument which is grossly unfair.
    The bloke we just signed for Millions$$$$ dropped a ball and lost a GF. FFS does that mean we should persecute him forever for that and not by him?
    Wake up to yourself and by all means disagree with signing Dugan but don't offer up such paltry rare cases of Dugan making simple errors.
    On your premiss Cronk, Smith, Boyd, Slater are all on notice for their simple errors last night.
     
  20. mickeylane

    mickeylane Juniors

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,223
    Likes Received:
    378
    $2
    $2M for 3 years $650K per season $100K less per season on whats he's on now..same money as Jennings
     

Share This Page