Knights to Qld Cup???

[Ram Man]

No Country clubs have the cash to compete in a statewide comp. Qld Cup clubs spend at least 400k a year. Even half of that would be too much for CRL clubs. What's more there is no advantage for them in entering a statewide comp. They wouldn't neccessarily get bigger crowds and there are only so many sponsorship dollars around. Plus messing with the CRL structure by making the local comps second rate to their local state league side and/or by pulling the big clubs out of the local comps could cause far more damage than it's worth. We've spoken about this idea in Tamworth where the two local clubs dominate Group 4. Neither has the money, neither would consider a merger or joint venture and even if there was a state league side based here I doubt they'd get bigger crowds than the normal local games do now. Who wants to play in the Jim Beam Cup anyway? It's boring, the crowds are terrible and there is no continuity in terms of which clubs compete or even how many compete and no certainty that it will even exist in a few years. Plus we'd be giving a piece of our local game over to the Sydney-based admin who don't know the first thing about bush footy and don't give a toss either.

Ahhh...I do!

Im not going back to play in the f**king local league thats for damn sure.
Just how many games of JBC have you been too anyway....or are you just speaking from the rubbish coverage we get for an hour on Fox Sports?

Sure the crowds are not great but asides from places like Mackay, the Q Cup teams dont really have the grounds bursting at the seams. And I have played in the Q Cup.
I agree with you that the Q Cup is now the Premier 2nd Tier competition in Aus, and that a State-wide NSW Cup will not work, but I wouldnt go rubbishing the JBC when you have very little idea about the competition and the players involved.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

I've never been to the JBC but you only have to look at the turnstile of teams going in and out of the comp, the lack of history, lack of interest and the lack of any real intensity or feeling in the games to see it doesn't stack up. If country clubs don't want a bar of it I think that speaks volumes. It's not even that high a standard. The Newcastle comp is pretty close to matching it and it has proper rivalry and history. The NSWRL have to get their act together and decide what the structure of the game in Sydney (and I say Sydney not NSW) should be and get it sorted. Maybe then the NSW Cup and JBC or whatever replaces them can be taken seriously.

 

[Ram Man]

I've never been to the JBC but you only have to look at the turnstile of teams going in and out of the comp, the lack of history, lack of interest and the lack of any real intensity or feeling in the games to see it doesn't stack up. If country clubs don't want a bar of it I think that speaks volumes. It's not even that high a standard. The Newcastle comp is pretty close to matching it and it has proper rivalry and history. The NSWRL have to get their act together and decide what the structure of the game in Sydney (and I say Sydney not NSW) should be and get it sorted. Maybe then the NSW Cup and JBC or whatever replaces them can be taken seriously.

The reason for the turn over of clubs is simply money.
It has nothing to do with the Standard of footy at all.
It costs at least $150K to enter a team into the JBC and with the Pokie tax affecting even NRL clubs, it is even harder for JBC clubs to come up with the funds.
How many Country clubs do you think can come up with $150K for a season then also have to pay some decent players to be competitive?
How can you say with any knowledge at all that its not even a high standard, you just said you have never been to a game? And yet you crap on about lack of intensity and ant real feel in a game. What a load of complete bull$hit
Sure Newcastle clubs have rivalry and history but rivalry and history has to start somewhere doesnt it?
Again you are making assumptions for a far when you have absolutley no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Brownie.Kougari]

The reason for the turn over of clubs is simply money.
It has nothing to do with the Standard of footy at all.
It costs at least $150K to enter a team into the JBC and with the Pokie tax affecting even NRL clubs, it is even harder for JBC clubs to come up with the funds.
How many Country clubs do you think can come up with $150K for a season then also have to pay some decent players to be competitive?
How can you say with any knowledge at all that its not even a high standard, you just said you have never been to a game? And yet you crap on about lack of intensity and ant real feel in a game. What a load of complete bull$hit
Sure Newcastle clubs have rivalry and history but rivalry and history has to start somewhere doesnt it?
Again you are making assumptions for a far when you have absolutley no idea what you are talking about.

It costs $700kish to run a Qld Cup side apparently.

 

[cumberlandsashes81]

It costs at least $150K to enter a team into the JBC and with the Pokie tax affecting even NRL clubs, it is even harder for JBC clubs to come up with the funds.

I think JBC clubs are paying more than this ($150k is the Salary Cap)... Ryde-Eastwood were paying $350k or something for their Metropolitan Cup team - they simply moved this investment into the Balmain Ryde Eastwood Joint Venture - and others like St Mary's were on a similar amount in their day.

As I've said in another thread - the NSW competitions will be stable when there's an incentive to invest in the competitions and stay there. Decent TV coverage, a better media profile, some prize money, etc, would go a long way to achieving this.

The players and the standard is there. Jim Beam Cup Representatives seemed to be pretty strong at the Quad Series, weren't they?

Again you are making assumptions for a far when you have absolutley no idea what you are talking about.

The Sydney-bashing that goes on in these forums is getting pretty boring...

 

[cumberlandsashes81]

It costs $700kish to run a Qld Cup side apparently.

That'd be about right - NSW Cup would be similar...

Though, I remember that when the Toowoomba Clydesdales Queensland Cup team was abandoned, it was estimated by an auditor that they needed about $900k to run the team - which is substantially more than it costs to run a team in the NSW Cup.

The report is on the web somewhere...

 

[XXXX Cap]

As I've said in another thread - the NSW competitions will be stable when there's an incentive to invest in the competitions and stay there. Decent TV coverage, a better media profile, some prize money, etc, would go a long way to achieving this.

The players and the standard is there. Jim Beam Cup Representatives seemed to be pretty strong at the Quad Series, weren't they?

That's true but the problem is it is unlikely to happen. I think the Queensland Cup is terrific and should be better promoted, have more media coverage etc..

However, the reality is in the modern world, people have been attuned to having an interest in the elite level of each sport. Whether its NRL, AFL, Super 14, A League, ANZ Netball Championship, Ford Ranger Cup - very few give a damn about any level below these. As a result, sponsorship and media coverage is minimal and for all our dreams to have NSW Cup or Queensland Cup better exposed, it's not going to happen. Slight changes are possible but nothing significant.

Consider Fox Sports - have four channels going 24/7 - how much of the content is on competitions below elite level ? Almost nil. Doesn't even rate a mention in their news service.

That's the sad truth about sporting coverage these days.

 

[Ram Man]

I think JBC clubs are paying more than this ($150k is the Salary Cap)... Ryde-Eastwood were paying $350k or something for their Metropolitan Cup team - they simply moved this investment into the Balmain Ryde Eastwood Joint Venture - and others like St Mary's were on a similar amount in their day.

As I've said in another thread - the NSW competitions will be stable when there's an incentive to invest in the competitions and stay there. Decent TV coverage, a better media profile, some prize money, etc, would go a long way to achieving this.

The players and the standard is there. Jim Beam Cup Representatives seemed to be pretty strong at the Quad Series, weren't they?



The Sydney-bashing that goes on in these forums is getting pretty boring...

Thats why i said at least $150K....

But a lot of people dont realise that there is zero Prize Money in the JBC and assume that because teams leave its because of the Standard of footy being played. Clearly these people have no idea wtf they are talking about, with people in here even saying that they have never seen a JBC game but went on to say there was no intensity and feeling in JBC games...the mind boggles where people like that get this $hit from!

The Players are there, the standard is there, the money is not!
The Rep side this year belted all and sundry in the Quad series which included the QLD Rangers which is supposed to be the best non QLD Cup players in all of QLD, but apparently the JBC is a $hit standard.

Money is the problem for the NSWRL plus the fact that they cant even run a decent f**king website, let alone a functional and financially stable and viable competition

 

[miccle]

Being a Toowoomba boy myself i agree. Although having some sort of deal with an NRL club will only rape the Clydesdales like the Broncos did. I reckon they'd only ever work as a local club.

:lol:

The Broncos put the Clydies on life support, the club itself as a local operation was dying a long and slow death and would've folded years ago if it hadn't been for the Broncos propping them up.

I was a MASSIVE Clydies fan too and would love to see them brought back, but suggesting that the Broncos "raped" the Clydesdales is ludicrous in the extreme.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Thats why i said at least $150K....

But a lot of people dont realise that there is zero Prize Money in the JBC and assume that because teams leave its because of the Standard of footy being played. Clearly these people have no idea wtf they are talking about, with people in here even saying that they have never seen a JBC game but went on to say there was no intensity and feeling in JBC games...the mind boggles where people like that get this $hit from!

The Players are there, the standard is there, the money is not!
The Rep side this year belted all and sundry in the Quad series which included the QLD Rangers which is supposed to be the best non QLD Cup players in all of QLD, but apparently the JBC is a $hit standard.

Money is the problem for the NSWRL plus the fact that they cant even run a decent f**king website, let alone a functional and financially stable and viable competition

I never said anything about clubs leaving because of the standard, you just made that assumption. Cubs leave it because it's an expensive waste of time. I watch the JBC on TV and there is zero atmosphere and zero intensity. There is more intensity in a local bush game. It's sh*t and just because you play in it and therefore are completely bias and want to take offence to people who see a lot of footy played all over the country and say it is sh*t doesn't mean it is not sh*t. The Qld Cup is a great comp with real history, real intensity, proper rivalries and the standard is amazing. Bush footy has mountains of history and more local rivalry than you can poke a stick at and even that makes up for the lack of brilliant footy. The JBC has none of the history or the intense rivalry and the standard is well below the Qld Cup and even the equally boring NSW Cup. The JBC rep side had NRL players in it and Country was missing something like 10 players. In 2007 when closer to full strength Country beat JBC in the Quad Series, to the arrogant Sydney side's utter dismay. How? Spirit, something they obviously lacked. Too busy fighting with each other and holding their hand out for the ARL's cash. Why do you think Grant Wooden refused to play for them? Country would have won it again this year had they not lost half their team to injury, suspension and city clubs buying their players and if the JBC hadn't used blokes who had played NRL only a few weeks earlier thanks to the NSWRL's ridiculous structure (or lack of it) that allowed NRL second graders to play in what is a third grade competition. The JBC is a complete waste of money and trying to expand it to the rest of the state would be like chucking cash down the drain. No country club would even have the money to enter it but even if they did they'd be barking to put all that effort into a competition that has not one bit of character about it and will probably fold in a few years.

 

[Ram Man]

I never said anything about clubs leaving because of the standard, you just made that assumption. Cubs leave it because it's an expensive waste of time. I watch the JBC on TV and there is zero atmosphere and zero intensity. There is more intensity in a local bush game. It's sh*t and just because you play in it and therefore are completely bias and want to take offence to people who see a lot of footy played all over the country and say it is sh*t doesn't mean it is not sh*t. The Qld Cup is a great comp with real history, real intensity, proper rivalries and the standard is amazing. Bush footy has mountains of history and more local rivalry than you can poke a stick at and even that makes up for the lack of brilliant footy. The JBC has none of the history or the intense rivalry and the standard is well below the Qld Cup and even the equally boring NSW Cup. The JBC rep side had NRL players in it and Country was missing something like 10 players. In 2007 when closer to full strength Country beat JBC in the Quad Series, to the arrogant Sydney side's utter dismay. How? Spirit, something they obviously lacked. Too busy fighting with each other and holding their hand out for the ARL's cash. Why do you think Grant Wooden refused to play for them? Country would have won it again this year had they not lost half their team to injury, suspension and city clubs buying their players and if the JBC hadn't used blokes who had played NRL only a few weeks earlier thanks to the NSWRL's ridiculous structure (or lack of it) that allowed NRL second graders to play in what is a third grade competition. The JBC is a complete waste of money and trying to expand it to the rest of the state would be like chucking cash down the drain. No country club would even have the money to enter it but even if they did they'd be barking to put all that effort into a competition that has not one bit of character about it and will probably fold in a few years.

I've never been to the JBC but you only have to look at the turnstile of teams going in and out of the comp, the lack of history, lack of interest and the lack of any real intensity or feeling in the games to see it doesn't stack up.

Is this the assumtion that I made and you denying that clubs leave because of the standard?

You still crap on about no intensity in games from seeing the weak coverage that is shown on Fox Sports. You have no f**king idea of the intensity amd passion that the game is played with in the JBC, and you never will sitting from your f**king armchair in the middle of nowhere.
You keep jumping to assumptions about the competition and have f**k all facts to back this up other than that pathetic NSWRL show on fox every Wednesday night.
I have played bush footy in Lismore and QLD Cup and JBC and there is more intensity in JBC than bush footy. Not to mention you would get the same amount of people to a game of footy in the bush as you would at the JBC.
We all know the QLD cup is a better standard, but when people start rubbishing it with a total lack of information without having been to any JBC game, I and many others will question and object to it.
There is rivalry that people like you dont know about.
The Sydney Bulls and Cabramatta have a long standing rivalry for example that is even discussed in other forums on LU, but you wouldnt know about that because you make commment on competitions that you have no f**king idea about.

I have no idea why Grant Wooden doesnt want to play in the JBC, maybe he is getting better money playing in the country because the JBC has a salary cap. I have heard from the guys at Erina JBC that he loves to chase cash.
And of course the old Chestnut of saying you had injured players and would have won the Quad series blah, blah, blah...keep making excuses...where was the country spirit when the chips were down this year then? The Spirit that you claim JBC doesnt have because you have seen sooo many games!!

Yes it is an expensive exercise, with no reward at the end, but for you to jump up and down and claim that this comp is better than the other because its what you heard or saw on a f**king highlights package that shows practically nothing is very naive.
Its a strong comp, played with plenty of heart and intensity and character and I will still stand here and argue with you until you actually come and see a game between two rival sides. Sure I may have a little bias, but at least I have some knowledge on all levels and not just making bull$hit statements.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Is this the assumtion that I made and you denying that clubs leave because of the standard?

You still crap on about no intensity in games from seeing the weak coverage that is shown on Fox Sports. You have no f**king idea of the intensity amd passion that the game is played with in the JBC, and you never will sitting from your f**king armchair in the middle of nowhere.
You keep jumping to assumptions about the competition and have f**k all facts to back this up other than that pathetic NSWRL show on fox every Wednesday night.
I have played bush footy in Lismore and QLD Cup and JBC and there is more intensity in JBC than bush footy. Not to mention you would get the same amount of people to a game of footy in the bush as you would at the JBC.
We all know the QLD cup is a better standard, but when people start rubbishing it with a total lack of information without having been to any JBC game, I and many others will question and object to it.
There is rivalry that people like you dont know about.
The Sydney Bulls and Cabramatta have a long standing rivalry for example that is even discussed in other forums on LU, but you wouldnt know about that because you make commment on competitions that you have no f**king idea about.

I have no idea why Grant Wooden doesnt want to play in the JBC, maybe he is getting better money playing in the country because the JBC has a salary cap. I have heard from the guys at Erina JBC that he loves to chase cash.
And of course the old Chestnut of saying you had injured players and would have won the Quad series blah, blah, blah...keep making excuses...where was the country spirit when the chips were down this year then? The Spirit that you claim JBC doesnt have because you have seen sooo many games!!

Yes it is an expensive exercise, with no reward at the end, but for you to jump up and down and claim that this comp is better than the other because its what you heard or saw on a f**king highlights package that shows practically nothing is very naive.
Its a strong comp, played with plenty of heart and intensity and character and I will still stand here and argue with you until you actually come and see a game between two rival sides. Sure I may have a little bias, but at least I have some knowledge on all levels and not just making bull$hit statements.

Have you ever been to a Qld Cup game or a CRL game? If not you have nothing to compare the JBC to. Knowledge on all levels, what a joke. I've seen rthe JBC rep side and if that's the best they've got it's nothing to be proud of. They had to get NRL ring-ins to beat a vastly understrength Country and half the JBC players are originally from the bush anyway. By comparison it is sh*t and no country team will want to play in it and there is no way in hell any Qld sides would ever want to play in it. RL in Sydney is f**ked. Even with all the money and all the big leageus clubs it's still a basket case and it's only going to get worse. The last thing we should be doing is basing state or national secont tier comps around that sh*thole. Even NSW Country will all of its problems - drought, unemployment, distance, no help from the NRL - still has more junior and senior players than Sydney. RL capital? Bollocks.

 

[Ram Man]

Have you ever been to a Qld Cup game or a CRL game? If not you have nothing to compare the JBC to. Knowledge on all levels, what a joke. I've seen rthe JBC rep side and if that's the best they've got it's nothing to be proud of. They had to get NRL ring-ins to beat a vastly understrength Country and half the JBC players are originally from the bush anyway. By comparison it is sh*t and no country team will want to play in it and there is no way in hell any Qld sides would ever want to play in it. RL in Sydney is f**ked. Even with all the money and all the big leageus clubs it's still a basket case and it's only going to get worse. The last thing we should be doing is basing state or national secont tier comps around that sh*thole. Even NSW Country will all of its problems - drought, unemployment, distance, no help from the NRL - still has more junior and senior players than Sydney. RL capital? Bollocks.

Did you even read my posts?
I have played CRL, club and Rep footy then went on to play QLD Cup then moved to Sydney and have been playing JBC for 4 years.
Ive played them all, so I think that gives me knowledge on all levels numbnuts!
WTF do you think Grant Wooden is if he plays for Country....Hes a f**king ring in too mate! I seem to remember Craig Field playing for Country too.
You keep raising points but you are a hypocrite!
No ring-ins were used in the JBC rep side. They all played JBC games for the entire season, just because they have played NRL before does not mean they are ring-ins. Not 1 player in the JBC rep side played NRL in 08 before the side was selected. I think 1 player did after they played.
I never said that the JBC should be going to all of NSW, its a stupid idea and I never said it was better than QLD Cup.
It is a higher standard than any friggin CRL comp and for you to say there is a lack of passion, intensity or any rivalry is complete and utter bull$hit.
You have proved you talk out of your arse bu rubbishing the JBC yet havent watched 1 f**king game. You are just making assumtions, have been caught out and now your are making up fabricated stories to try and deflect how wrong you are.

 

[macavity]

It is a higher standard than any friggin CRL comp and for you to say there is a lack of passion, intensity or any rivalry is complete and utter bull$hit.

Newcastle Comp would run it close.

I would back Jesse Royal to be the best non-NRL prop in the country next year - and the likes of Nathan Hinton, Matt Thurston, Dean Amos, Milton Thaiday etc are fringe NRL quality.

 

[Ram Man]

Newcastle Comp would run it close.

I would back Jesse Royal to be the best non-NRL prop in the country next year - and the likes of Nathan Hinton, Matt Thurston, Dean Amos, Milton Thaiday etc are fringe NRL quality.

I have no doubt it would run close mate...there are some handy players running around in the Newcastle comp, as well as the Illawarra comp. But comparing Country footy to JBC without actually having seen a game and then going on to call it $hit is a silly statement.

 

[Erina7Eagle]

Have you ever been to a Qld Cup game or a CRL game? If not you have nothing to compare the JBC to. Knowledge on all levels, what a joke. I've seen rthe JBC rep side and if that's the best they've got it's nothing to be proud of. They had to get NRL ring-ins to beat a vastly understrength Country and half the JBC players are originally from the bush anyway. By comparison it is sh*t and no country team will want to play in it and there is no way in hell any Qld sides would ever want to play in it. RL in Sydney is f**ked. Even with all the money and all the big leageus clubs it's still a basket case and it's only going to get worse. The last thing we should be doing is basing state or national secont tier comps around that sh*thole. Even NSW Country will all of its problems - drought, unemployment, distance, no help from the NRL - still has more junior and senior players than Sydney. RL capital? Bollocks.

East coast tiger 2 players from DRagons top 25 played in JBC rep team & were only allowed to play 2 games. The JBC team suffered injuries & for 2 of these games only used 15 players. 4 games in 10 days tough footy bad luck 2 country they were beaten by a far better squad of players. I've heard all their excuses & they dont wash with me the JBC rep team will dominate that tournament for the next couple of years. Qld cup doesn't have a points system like JBC a player who has played more than 20 nrl games is worth 20 points out of 100 for the team of 17. Intensity & atmosphere in the Qld cup n if warren boland didn,t bring his family there would be know one there. The jim beam cup is tough n fast a breeding ground for the nrl. your sob story about nsw country bein under strength the best excuses always come from the loses you didn't hear JBC officials telling everybody they used 15players in 2 of the games, country teams maybe the 2/3 teams would would handle 22 rounds of JBC .

 

[Bow_rider]

I never said anything about clubs leaving because of the standard, you just made that assumption. Cubs leave it because it's an expensive waste of time. I watch the JBC on TV and there is zero atmosphere and zero intensity. There is more intensity in a local bush game. It's sh*t and just because you play in it and therefore are completely bias and want to take offence to people who see a lot of footy played all over the country and say it is sh*t doesn't mean it is not sh*t. The Qld Cup is a great comp with real history, real intensity, proper rivalries and the standard is amazing. Bush footy has mountains of history and more local rivalry than you can poke a stick at and even that makes up for the lack of brilliant footy. The JBC has none of the history or the intense rivalry and the standard is well below the Qld Cup and even the equally boring NSW Cup. The JBC rep side had NRL players in it and Country was missing something like 10 players. In 2007 when closer to full strength Country beat JBC in the Quad Series, to the arrogant Sydney side's utter dismay. How? Spirit, something they obviously lacked. Too busy fighting with each other and holding their hand out for the ARL's cash. Why do you think Grant Wooden refused to play for them? Country would have won it again this year had they not lost half their team to injury, suspension and city clubs buying their players and if the JBC hadn't used blokes who had played NRL only a few weeks earlier thanks to the NSWRL's ridiculous structure (or lack of it) that allowed NRL second graders to play in what is a third grade competition. The JBC is a complete waste of money and trying to expand it to the rest of the state would be like chucking cash down the drain. No country club would even have the money to enter it but even if they did they'd be barking to put all that effort into a competition that has not one bit of character about it and will probably fold in a few years.

Having followed both Qcup and JBC very closely, i feel i am in a position to comment in this post.Qcup in my opinion is of a slightly better standard across the board.But why compare the two.If you are going to compare then do it with NSW CUP.In saying that I believe any of the top 4 NSW cup teams would beat the top Q cup teams, but only just.The JBC teams are restricted by 100 point system, whereas the Q cup teams have no restriction.Crowds at both Q cup and JBC are about the same.Its only the local derbys like Burleigh/Tweed where 2 sets of supporters go to the game that the crowds increase.I have been to plenty of both games so i have first hand knowledge.Q cup players at some clubs are getting around 700 to 1000 a game and most have successful leagues clubs behind them,but JBC just falls behind with plenty of players getting around 700 a game.Why bag either comp as we need somewhere for our older players and players just out of NYC to go.

 

[Baldwin]

I think the Knights should sign with the Redcliffe Dolphins, personlly i just think the club their has the same feel about it that Smitty wants at the Knights.

 

[Parramatta_Power]

I'm hearing the NSWRL is attempting to stop Sydney based clubs from leaving the NSW Cup to go to the QLD Cup.

 

[The Observer]

I'm hearing the NSWRL is attempting to stop Sydney based clubs from leaving the NSW Cup to go to the QLD Cup.

NSWRL and ARL Geoff Carr said in either RLW or RLR that he wants to stop NRL clubs choosing feeder teams from another state.