Looking at our forwards impact and interchange

[Rabbits20]

I know he was a hot head but I believe the loss of Brown is a fair one as he added that much needed spark off the bench.

My concern is Sam could burn out with him having to do so much for the whole forward pack. I believe Tom will be strong starting as well.

Sutto is not getting any younger and Turner worries me plus Musgrove is still young so who knows what you'll get.


Coming to our bench I'm not sure how George will go. We must hope he fires but there are big question marks on that.


I believe Rochow has a very big role to play off the bench in getting into his work with geat energy. We need him to eat up the metres. I'd personally play Rochow at prop/lock off the bench. I believe he has to do a similar job to what Brown did.

Crichton is another one who really has to fire off the bench. He must play at a high tempo level consistently.

Cherrington is the wildcard. Let's hope he can stay fit and perform with an aura similar to hero crowd favourite George Rose. If we get 25-30 mins a week out of Cherrington going full pelt that can make us dangerous.


Fuimaona I hope will play similarly to Ma'u. I hope he's that X Factor around origin time and lifts the bench in the middle half of the season.


Clark will have to do a job for us in quite a few games off the bench too.

I don't know what to make of Greinke.

Tyrrell well I don't think he's up to it.



Let's discuss guys.........

 

[callmack1]

I don't think Sam will get burnt out because hopefully all the other forwards will lift and he won't have to do it all. I'm expecting much bigger things from the whole pack this year.

Imo, I know some won't agree, the reason our forwards struggled last year was because of McInnes' slow service. With Farah/Cook there now the forwards will be charging onto the ball like we saw at the back end of last season. This will greatly improve the entire pack.

It's certainly going to be interesting with all our new recruits in the forwards thats for sure!

 

[DiegoNT]

A forward pack is a team within a team. Every forward brings something different to the team. Just because a forward doesn't seem to be making an impact doesn't mean they aren't contributing in their own way. Our 2014 pack was one of the best balanced packs in recent history. Our 9 forwards (excluding hooker) roughly fitted into 3 categories. They were

The edge threats- players who's main purpose is to stay on an edge and create threats. They would occasionaly help with making metres but that wasn't their main job. They had to be competent B defenders but also work well with their halves and centres. In 2014 we had Teo, Sutton and Mcqueen.

Workers- players that plug holes, did the shit work, done a lot of work at the A defender position. They basically done whatever Madge told them. Again the would help out with hit ups but that wasn't their main role. In 2014 that was tyrell, clark and turner.

Metre Eater- players who's main job was to make metres and create momentum. They occasionally done the shit work but that wasn't their main role. In 2014 that was the Burgess Brothers.

We also had a forward X factor. That was sam the same way roosters had SBW, Cowboys had taumololo and sharks had fifita. Whether Sam can play like the back end is debatable. It was the perfect storm of a situation that lead to sam having a run off 10 games or so leading up to the gf that may never be repeated. What's easily forgotten is that sam was inconsistent between 2010 and 2013 and even in the first half of 2014 he had a mix of good and bad games. That's why it's a danger to put sam on such a pedestal and pay him so much and put him above criticism.

As for this year, we are working towards creating more of that balance. Just going by an expected team of 9 forwards (excluding hooker) we have

Edge threats- Rochow, Sutton, Chricton.

Workers- Clark, Turner, Musgrove

Metre Eaters- the burgess brothers.

The x-factor that may arise during the year may be Sam, but it may possibly be someone least expected. I see a lot of promise in Musgrove. He is young but from what I've seen there's a lot to like. He does a lot of the little things right, does a lot of shit work, defends well at A-defender but he also takes good hit ups that helps out his metre eaters. He may become both a momentum maker and worker in the same way sam did when he hit that purple patch in 2014 ( and almost got back to late in 2016) and if both can do it then we are in for a good year. The only problem is that Musgrove is still a bit raw and 2017 may be a year or two to early

 

[Rabbits20]

I agree with your point there Callmack.

It's truth telling.

 

[alien]

Imo, I know some won't agree, the reason our forwards struggled last year was because of McInnes' slow service. With Farah/Cook there now the forwards will be charging onto the ball like we saw at the back end of last season. This will greatly improve the entire pack.

I agree 100%. Cook does have some things to learn though, but I think he'll learn a lot from Farah.

 

[alien]

The x-factor that may arise during the year may be Sam, but it may possibly be someone least expected.

Maybe Cherrington will be our Te'o of 2014. . .

 

[alien]

Just a point in regards to Diego's "workers". They are ok in the forward pack as long as you have enough metre eaters on the field at the same time. It was ok to have Tyrell at prop in 2014 because most of the time he was on the field we had Sam and one of the twins playing up the middle at the same time. Same as when Clark was on.

Turner can also be considered an edge threat if he fires up some more. I know he can do it. I saw it a few times last year. He just needs to do it more.

 

[callmack1]

A forward pack is a team within a team. Every forward brings something different to the team. Just because a forward doesn't seem to be making an impact doesn't mean they aren't contributing in their own way. Our 2014 pack was one of the best balanced packs in recent history. Our 9 forwards (excluding hooker) roughly fitted into 3 categories. They were

The edge threats- players who's main purpose is to stay on an edge and create threats. They would occasionaly help with making metres but that wasn't their main job. They had to be competent B defenders but also work well with their halves and centres. In 2014 we had Teo, Sutton and Mcqueen.

Workers- players that plug holes, did the shit work, done a lot of work at the A defender position. They basically done whatever Madge told them. Again the would help out with hit ups but that wasn't their main role. In 2014 that was tyrell, clark and turner.

Metre Eater- players who's main job was to make metres and create momentum. They occasionally done the shit work but that wasn't their main role. In 2014 that was the Burgess Brothers.

We also had a forward X factor. That was sam the same way roosters had SBW, Cowboys had taumololo and sharks had fifita. Whether Sam can play like the back end is debatable. It was the perfect storm of a situation that lead to sam having a run off 10 games or so leading up to the gf that may never be repeated. What's easily forgotten is that sam was inconsistent between 2010 and 2013 and even in the first half of 2014 he had a mix of good and bad games. That's why it's a danger to put sam on such a pedestal and pay him so much and put him above criticism.

As for this year, we are working towards creating more of that balance. Just going by an expected team of 9 forwards (excluding hooker) we have

Edge threats- Rochow, Sutton, Chricton.

Workers- Clark, Turner, Musgrove

Metre Eaters- the burgess brothers.

The x-factor that may arise during the year may be Sam, but it may possibly be someone least expected. I see a lot of promise in Musgrove. He is young but from what I've seen there's a lot to like. He does a lot of the little things right, does a lot of shit work, defends well at A-defender but he also takes good hit ups that helps out his metre eaters. He may become both a momentum maker and worker in the same way sam did when he hit that purple patch in 2014 ( and almost got back to late in 2016) and if both can do it then we are in for a good year. The only problem is that Musgrove is still a bit raw and 2017 may be a year or two to early

Great post

 

[DiegoNT]

Maybe Cherrington will be our Te'o of 2014. . .

Te'o came to us as a current origin player and on the back of being one of the games best enforcers over 100+ games for Tigers and Broncos. He was one of the most widely sort after forwards in the game

Cherrington hasn't played first grade for a whole 7 years. We signed him well into the off-season after all other options had dried up. If we are expecting cherrington to be a new Teo we are in trouble.
If Cherrington makes it to first grade then he has done extremely well. If he plays more then 5 games he would have exceeded expectations

 

[Rabbits20]

Just a point in regards to Diego's "workers". They are ok in the forward pack as long as you have enough metre eaters on the field at the same time. It was ok to have Tyrell at prop in 2014 because most of the time he was on the field we had Sam and one of the twins playing up the middle at the same time. Same as when Clark was on.

Turner can also be considered an edge threat if he fires up some more. I know he can do it. I saw it a few times last year. He just needs to do it more.

Correctamundo.

No good having workers and players on the edge if they aren't making metres. Last season we were third last out of teams for making metres. The Burgi alien can't just make all the ground, they need help from the others.

Turner has to be more consistent. He goes missing too much.

 

[DiegoNT]

Correctamundo.

No good having workers and players on the edge if they aren't making metres. Last season we were third last out of teams for making metres. The Burgi alien can't just make all the ground, they need help from the others.

Turner has to be more consistent. He goes missing too much.

That's one way to look at it.
How many players from our 2014 team do you think ran for over 100m a game?
How many from sharks and Storm this year?
It's all about balance and everyone doing their job. If the burgess brothers need help making the metres then it upsets the whole balance. If second rowers have to come in off the edges to do hit ups up the middle all the time, then we dont have anyone posing a threat on the edges. It's hard work to take a hit up on the second tackle, then get yourself back in position for a set play on the fourth. Second rowers can do it occasionally, but to have to continually do it all game will were them out. Not having a second rower as a threat on the edges means defences can compact themselves, making those middle hit ups even harder. If the workers stopped focusing on the shit work then someone else will have to take that slack. If that shit work is taken up by wingers it may sap the energy they need to do the vital early tackle count runs that help get the team rolling. Think Inglis early in the year having to take extra hit ups but blunting his energy in attack. If the workers are making those extra metres in attack because the Burgess needs help it may mean they may not also be able to do the extra work in defence needed to cover for the twins defensive limitations. It's all about doing your part. It's easy to see that other players not making big metres is them not doing their part, but the burgii are paid huge amounts of money specifically just for that. If the burgii can't do what their paid for then it shouldn't be up to others to do that for them. If that was the case then the burgii need to start doing the share of the shit work, they need to be better A defenders, they need to find a way to be able to slow down the ruck without giving away penalties etv

 

[Rabbits20]

Te'o at the back half of the 2014 season was making over 100metres a game in the second row.

I saw matches last season where Sutto and Crichton made over 100metres.

Sam does do a lot of shit work too.

We need to get the ball to the edges and having our second rowers running into holes and threatening. It can't just be all up the middle with the Burgi as that's too predictable.

I like Clark but he has to be more consistent. He gets pushed back quite a fair bit too.

Turner would be dangerous running into small gaps but he doesn't present himself more than 3-4 times a game to do so.

 

[alien]

Te'o came to us as a current origin player and on the back of being one of the games best enforcers over 100+ games for Tigers and Broncos. He was one of the most widely sort after forwards in the game

Cherrington hasn't played first grade for a whole 7 years. We signed him well into the off-season after all other options had dried up. If we are expecting cherrington to be a new Teo we are in trouble.
If Cherrington makes it to first grade then he has done extremely well. If he plays more then 5 games he would have exceeded expectations

you said it yourself "it may possibly be someone least expected". he just needs to play to his potential

 

[alien]

The Burgi alien can't just make all the ground, they need help from the others.

Turner has to be more consistent. He goes missing too much.

correct

 

[Dogmatix]

The biggest issue for Souths' forwards in 2017 is the health and fitness of George Burgess

In the 2014 Grand Final win he was the best player on the field and his try broke open the game

In 2016 he was playing busted all season and he was poor as a result. If he gets over his injury and gets back to being a dominant 150m a game forward it make a huge difference to Souths. If he plays like he did in 2016 then Souths will struggle

 

[Rabbits20]

correct

Oi alien look at the Sharks, Wade Graham makes 100 plus metres a match.

Look at the Storm's Tohu Harris. He regularly makes 100 plus metres.

Look at the Cowboys Coen Hess, he regularly makes 100 plus metres.

Look at the Roosters Guerra and Cordner, they regularly make 100 plus metres.

Look at Mannering, he regularly makes 100 plus metres.


They are some examples, the list goes on.


Our second rowers especially Turner, has to do more if we want to make the finals.


We ain't gonna get really big metres out of George I don't think unfortunately.

It has to be a team effort, not just all on SAM, Tom and Musgrove.

You know it's true bro.

 

[DiegoNT]

Oi alien look at the Sharks, Wade Graham makes 100 plus metres a match.

Look at the Storm's Tohu Harris. He regularly makes 100 plus metres.

Look at the Cowboys Coen Hess, he regularly makes 100 plus metres.

Look at the Roosters Guerra and Cordner, they regularly make 100 plus metres.

Look at Mannering, he regularly makes 100 plus metres.


They are some examples, the list goes on.


Our second rowers especially Turner, has to do more if we want to make the finals.


We ain't gonna get really big metres out of George I don't think unfortunately.

It has to be a team effort, not just all on SAM, Tom and Musgrove.

You know it's true bro.

Those 5 players you mentioned all make so many metres because all they have to do is stay on their edge and reap the rewards. Not 1 of those players has to go in field to do extra work because there middle forwards are doing the job. Graham never has to leave the flank because fifita and gallen do their jobs, ditto hess with tamou, lolo and Scott, ditto harris with Bromwich, Finucane and McLean, ditto corner with Napa, JWH and Evans. Mannering is just a freak of endurance from having to carry a lazy warriors pack for over a decade.

 

[Rabbits20]

I wasn't talking to you Diego.

I'm talking to alien.

It's best for you to put me on your ignore list. You have clearly disobeyed the head of the site Coby, he strictly told you to not touch it.

 

[Rsag85]

Cook better start over Farah for the best of the team

 

[rabbitohs95]

If our bargain buys (Rochow, Cherrington etc) can push our guys to the best we should do well.

A lot rests on the shoulders of the twins but the aforementioned guys should be vying for spots.

I think the likes of Clark, Turner and Tyrrell (already endangered) will need to play to the best of their ability week in week out or be replaced.

I think we have a solid pack.