Mann versus Nighty

[SBD82]

I am a big Nightingale fan and you are preaching to the converted regarding his abilities.
On the point of where to play him off the bench.
How do we use Mann now?
Given that McInnes is an 80 minute participant - same argument applies to Mann

Mann is playing as an extra link in a wide spread and taking runs behind the ruck with quick play the balls. Neither of those things are in Nightys arsenal.

 

[O'Sullivan]

Teams are beginning to target Nighty, they would be mad if they didn't.The problem I have with Nightingale is I feel as loyal to him as he has been to the club yet I know the bottom line is that we have to be a professional club and the question is whether Jason is one of the two best wingers in the club? If I was brutally honest I'd say no. Mann is better but, and it is a big but, does Nightingale provide a mental strength and commitment that the team needs. Maybe I am just grasping at straws.

 

[Dragons22]

Mann is currently the better player. Nightingale is a club legend, no doubt about that, although he has had his time, he’s too old, and slow now. Mann is a better player.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

Teams are beginning to target Nighty, they would be mad if they didn't.The problem I have with Nightingale is I feel as loyal to him as he has been to the club yet I know the bottom line is that we have to be a professional club and the question is whether Jason is one of the two best wingers in the club? If I was brutally honest I'd say no. Mann is better but, and it is a big but, does Nightingale provide a mental strength and commitment that the team needs. Maybe I am just grasping at straws.

As SBD82 points out, Mann is being used in a particular way and wing would only be as a fill in.
The jury is still out on Nightingale for the reasons you and others have pointed out.
Some of the things he does are incredible and yet we all realize he is no speedster anymore.
Is there a better winger at the club right this minute (not including Mann for the reasons outlined)? You would have to say no.
Do we need to be looking to the future (Lomax) and who will succeed Nightingale - absolutely.
I suppose this issue will take its course during the season and at some point the solution will be more cut and dry.
Right now, I am more than happy having Nightingale as one of our wingers.

 

[possm]

Mann is doing a great job in his current role and seems to be enjoying it however, I see him as a left side outside back and so moving to the right wing may be a big adjustment for him. I think if Lafai's form drops or if he is injured, Mann will slot right in at left centre and be hard to move from that position once he gets the job.

I believe most of Nightingale's problem is not just about speed; it is also the amount of quality ball he is receiving from Aitken. I would prefer to replace Nightingale with Lomax and over time have Aitken and Lomax switch positions throughout games and make performance judgements on those results. Who know, if Aitken can overcome his problems with the high ball, he maybe the ideal robust right winger to replace Nightingale long term. His strength in defence against some of the bigger wingers would be without question and he surely does have the speed and strength to run right through some of the more fancied wingers of the competition.

I see Lomax as our long term option at right centre and yes it does make sense to blood him on the right wing if the opportunity is there this season.

 

[MilanDragon]

Some very good points raised in this thread. I think Mann adds a lot of value off our bench as utility, more than potentially any other player at the club can add, which goes against him as a starting 13. I also don’t know where you can start him at the current time, as he isn’t a winger.

I actually believe there are no real options banging down the door to replace Nighty, especially outside of Aitken who has two plays:
1) catch and run
2) catch, think about passing and then run.

At least Nighty has the experience there.

Lomax would be the obvious replacement.. but I feel the club are doing a similar thing with him as they did with Dufty last year - not rushing him in and letting him play against men for a season.

How many people were bagging the club and Mcgregor for not playing Dufty earlier last year, but we are seeing the benefits of that now, letting his body adjust.

 

[RufusRex]

As soon as he didn't score against the Scum last week he should have had the red line put through his name .. The poor effort in not making it back into the field of play gifting possession and with that tries should add more red to the line.

Too slow
Cant finish
Concedes and is a liability in defene
Running game from DH is not giving us metres or fast play the balls
Kick returns ordinary

If anyone else except him was making these errors the forum would be in meltdown - leilua's efforts the example.

Time is up - bring in the bloke playing reggies on the right wing who is scoring tries and playing well.

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

Teams are beginning to target Nighty, they would be mad if they didn't.The problem I have with Nightingale is I feel as loyal to him as he has been to the club yet I know the bottom line is that we have to be a professional club and the question is whether Jason is one of the two best wingers in the club? If I was brutally honest I'd say no. Mann is better but, and it is a big but, does Nightingale provide a mental strength and commitment that the team needs. Maybe I am just grasping at straws.

Teams are also targeting MacDonald, whose deficiencies are renown.

Dropping Nightingale is just plain crazy talk.

 

[RufusRex]

Yeah ... but at least Nene is scoring tries, breaking tackles, making tough runs and generally contributing to our go forward.

 

[Frank Facer]

Teams are also targeting MacDonald, whose deficiencies are renown.

Dropping Nightingale is just plain crazy talk.

I disagree.

Dropping Nightingale for Lomax or Mann is logical and rational.

 

[Frank Facer]

Yeah ... but at least Nene is scoring tries, breaking tackles, making tough runs and generally contributing to our go forward.

Nene is going great guns.

 

[Dragon for life]

I disagree.

Dropping Nightingale for Lomax or Mann is logical and rational.

Teams are also targeting MacDonald, whose deficiencies are renown.

Dropping Nightingale is just plain crazy talk.

Mann needs to be playing 3/4 of a game at least. You can see when he comes on that he deserves to be on the park. Defence/attack is much better than whatnighty is giving us at the moment.
As mentioned earlier you can replace Mann with nighty and Mann can replace another position the needs a break.

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

Mann needs to be playing 3/4 of a game at least. You can see when he comes on that he deserves to be on the park. Defence/attack is much better than whatnighty is giving us at the moment.
As mentioned earlier you can replace Mann with nighty and Mann can replace another position the needs a break.

Yes, Mann should be a starting player but not in lieu of Nightingale.

Lafai is the one that shouldn't have been mentioned from round one.

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

I disagree.

Dropping Nightingale for Lomax or Mann is logical and rational.

You're entitled to an opinion but so am I.

 

[ALSGI]

Most of us agree Mann is wasted on the bench.

I think Nighty is a waste on the field, when we have Mann especially, but also the likes of Field and Lomax that could be gaining FG experience and adding some more strike on the wing.

 

[RufusRex]

You're entitled to an opinion but so am I.

Of course you are .. just as we are entitled to our opinion based on current form and common sense you are entitled to your opinion based on nostalgia, fairy tales and hoping really really hard.

 

[kit66]

Whoever plays right wing for us isn't going to get much opportunity to shine apart from taking some cross - field kicks or bombs from Hunt. Frizell and Aitken don't pass the ball even when they absolutely should, like with the line open for the winger. Nightie probably prefers to play on the left where you get some ball but sensibly we've put the bigger, stronger Nene over there to take advantage of Wids leftside sweeps and grubbers. I really feel for Nightie who also has to cop the bad defensive reads from Aitken. Considering all that though, there's a good argument to be made for trying out someone else on the right - either the speedster Field or the taller and stronger Lomax - with Field coming in field for some set plays or Lomax taking advantage of Hunt and Widdops attacking kicks to the corner. We've nothing to lose except maybe a weakening of our defence. Try them out in games we're likely to win and use Nightie in the big games, easing the new guy (s) in.

 

[2010]

If Nighty is going to retire this year it is important that the club has pencilled in who will replace him and that player needs game time this year to prove themselves.
Better to start that then waiting to throw someone in next year.

 

[ALSGI]

Whoever plays right wing for us isn't going to get much opportunity to shine apart from taking some cross - field kicks or bombs from Hunt. Frizell and Aitken don't pass the ball even when they absolutely should, like with the line open for the winger. Nightie probably prefers to play on the left where you get some ball but sensibly we've put the bigger, stronger Nene over there to take advantage of Wids leftside sweeps and grubbers. I really feel for Nightie who also has to cop the bad defensive reads from Aitken. Considering all that though, there's a good argument to be made for trying out someone else on the right - either the speedster Field or the taller and stronger Lomax - with Field coming in field for some set plays or Lomax taking advantage of Hunt and Widdops attacking kicks to the corner. We've nothing to lose except maybe a weakening of our defence. Try them out in games we're likely to win and use Nightie in the big games, easing the new guy (s) in.

You make some good sense in your post.

 

[ALSGI]

If Nighty is going to retire this year it is important that the club has pencilled in who will replace him and that player needs game time this year to prove themselves.
Better to start that then waiting to throw someone in next year.

More good sense.