Millward Recruitment and Retention Update

Discussion in 'St George Illawarra Dragons' started by TomRedVRiver, Apr 17, 2017.

  1. coast_dragons

    coast_dragons Coach

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    Very good post i agree the amount invested in Widdop and Hunt is a tad scary to but the club needed a 7 and Hunt certainly looks like he could compliment widdop.

    Add to that McInnes who is a clever number 9 and Robson who has been mentioned as his backup you have some key components in your spine.

    Fullback is going to be a big question that needs to be answered and Dugan for the good things he does he just isn't in the same class as some of the ball playing backs and what he is looking at pay wise he just isn't worth it.
     
  2. ALSGI

    ALSGI Juniors

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    Johno, you're right regarding Millward imo, very tough gig and at the mercy of players and their managers, uncertainty with the salary cap, their missus telling them to sign with the $$$, etc not to mention possm's whiteboard.
    I'm pretty happy with our deck of cards atm, especially some juniors coming up if they ever get a decent crack.
    Mate can you please give your dog a kick from me too, mine knows to when to hide, so haven't seen the flea bag for 3 weeks. Hopefully he's rooting the Cronulla, Roosters and Bulldogs supporting neighbors dogs in the street. He should be back home Friday night I reckon.
     
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  3. Frank Facer

    Frank Facer Juniors

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    Yeah, I agree. I would be looking to have 1, 6 and 7 as marquee players. We have to make sure that we can keep a good tough, big forward pack.
     
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  4. Crush

    Crush Juniors

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    Quality Post! Agree a million percent
     
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  5. possm

    possm First Grade

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    Your missing the point. Millward should have extended Packers contract in November, At the time Packer was happy to stay. Millward listen to a greedy player manager who wanted Dugans contract settled firs. The end result is that we lost two players we wanted to retain - hang on maybe Millward did not want to retain them. If this is the case he should have advised them there would be no extension and save all the drama. Hang on, if he did this, the fans would have been up in arms and so would have been the coach. Which brings me back to the whole reason Dugan got his nose out of joint. Millward said Dugan is considered to be a centre and would be offered top line centre money.

    Unfair criticism, I think not. A mess, I am sure of it.
     
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  6. Dragonslayer

    Dragonslayer Bench

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    Possm mate, if you remember back in November Packer was recovering from 2 surgery's. Both required some time to recover correctly. At that stage it was prudent to wait and see if those surgeries were successful. I mean imagine we re-signed Packer on a large deal (say 500k for argument sake, 3 years) only to find out he was busted and ended up playing mainly in Reggies, ala Mose Masoe. That would have been a huge chunk of salary cap wasted.
    I do agree with you however, that Millward should have shown more urgency in his dealings, it appears he was running on assumption rather than fact. Yes Packer wanted to stay, and probably assumed so, but the carry-on at WT was not predicted, but as soon as it broke, and if we really wanted to re-sign Packer, he should have moved more swiftly then.
    We can only hope that some serious urgency is now shown in re-signing, in particular, Mann, who I think Gus Gould will make a big play for. Lafai and McInnes also need to be locked in sooner than later.
     
  7. BringTheNoise

    BringTheNoise Juniors

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    Nailed it, possm.
     
  8. CarrrnDragons

    CarrrnDragons Juniors

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    The unfortunate thing is Dugan was always likely to leave and we should have picked that earlier and secured Packer at a reasonable price... hindsight is a wonderful thing...Mann to Panthers next??
     
  9. possm

    possm First Grade

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    I agree with you and accept your point regarding Packer's injury. Would have been good to keep Packer however, I'm not fussed about losing Dugan provided Millward comes up with a marquee fullback.
     
  10. Ace-STi

    Ace-STi Juniors

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    Dugan had the shits as soon as we signed Ben Hunt for a $1m and was insulted we didn't offer him the same that is all it came down to IMHO! Was a downhill battle trying to keep him from there, also we prob paid him too much for his last contract so his expectations were always going to be higher!
     
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  11. Morotti

    Morotti Juniors

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    In this type of player market it was always going to be difficult to keep everyone coming off contract. You simply cannot do it.

    I am happy that we have a quality 6, 7 and 9 for the next few years.

    For a fullback spot perhaps we retain Mann and see how he fares in another try at fullback whilst Dufty and Field are coming through and we figure out whether they are going to make it in the top grade.

    I know Mann didn't go well in his last outing at fullback but I would expect a lot has changed and I have enjoyed seeing him in the Red V this year.

    It is tough losing Packer. That is the one I am more upset about. Given he was on the scrapheap when the dragons picked him up and we worked with him for a long time to get him back to the NRL, it hurts that he left.

    Dugan was always going to the highest bidder. It is bitter sweet. He is great defensively and is a great ball runner but he seems incapable of even throwing a simply pass. I am surprised after all these years in first grade that is not something he could not teach himself.

    Would be funny if he went to the Sharks and played centre after complaining at the Dragons he wanted to play fullback.

    Suppose we will wait and see what comes.

    And as for not acting fast enough, you don't know what was happening behind the scenes between the player managers. They of course want the best deal for their clients and I would have found it interesting if they would have sorted out contracts before knowing what the salary cap would be. Also the club has to wait and see what it is likely to be. So there were and still are a lot of variables. Very difficult to figure out your roster on that basis.

    The question is, you should be able to or be always looking to bring new players through that can do a good job on a lower wage and get the best out of them. Melbourne use this as the basis of their focus. They keep Billy, Cooper and Cameron and the rest are expendable. Essentially we have put our eggs in the basket for Widdop and Hunt and will build a team around them. And are hoping we can get someone at the club to step up into the 9 like McInnes is doing (or people talk about the young kid Robson is it) and also the 1 (Field or Dufty if they can handle first grade).

    People lost their minds when Jackson Hastings could not be re-signed by the club and look how he ended up. Struggling to get a game at Manly.
     
  12. Slippery Morris

    Slippery Morris First Grade

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    If Saints re-sign Mann and Lafai it will soften the blow big time with Duges leaving. Seriously I would rather 2 good solid NRL players than 1 that is better but injury probe. Mann and Lafai both putting in a good shift each week in 2017.

    Hope Saints can announce these 2 signings asap.

    At the start of the season there were a heap of players coming off contract so it was going to be hard to keep them all.

    I suppose Saints lost Dugan in 2018 but will gain Hunt. I know which player I would rather have and which position is more crucial (Watching McCrone makes you realise that is for sure). And losing Packer but extending Vaughn and re-signing Jack De-Belin. Top choice for me. De-Belin is a beast.
     
  13. possm

    possm First Grade

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    Packer wanted to stay and we wanted him to stay until we waited so long and a rival offered him a better deal. The rival's opportunity was not there in Nov - April. Surely we could have signed Packer. I put it down to Millward taking his eye off the ball and being played by Packer's manager.
     
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  14. Frank Facer

    Frank Facer Juniors

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    If I was Millward, I would have 3 main targets right now. They would be Asofa-Solomona, Mitchell and Ross.

    We could use the Packer money to sign Asofa. We could use the Dugan money to sign both Mitchell and Ross, who is in dispute over a contract upgrade right now. I know it would be difficult for us to get Mitchell from Easts early, but I would do my best to make it happen. I think a team of

    1 Mitchell
    2 Ross
    3 Milne
    4 Lafai
    5 McDonald
    6 Widdop
    7 Hunt
    13 DeBelin
    12 Frizzell
    11 Thompson
    10 Asofa-Solomona
    9 McInnes
    8 Vaughan

    14 Simms
    15 Sele
    16 Ah Mau/Lawrie/Kerr
    17 Host/Leilua

    Would be a genuine premiership contender

    Lomax and or Herbert could be pushing for a centre position in the next 2 years. They could even get a chance on the wing if one was injured too.

    If we could not get Mitchell, then I would be happy put some good coin aside in case another top line fullback became available and I would to see how Field or Dufty go at fullback. I think Field or Dufty could be a sensation playing fullback behind the above team. Hopefully we get to see one or even both have a crack at fullback this year.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2017
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  15. Saint_JimmyG

    Saint_JimmyG Juniors

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    It's a complete myth to suggest Dugan cannot execute a "simple pass" which result in tries. For evidence, look at the exquisite 'long ball' he provided in Mann's second try against Melbourne at WIN Stadium.

    While Dugan may not be a natural ball player, it's probably more an indictment of how impotent the team's point scoring (in)ability has been since he joined the club in 2013.

    His impeding defection is a massive blow to a side that is starting to show signs of improvement.
     
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  16. Red V for life

    Red V for life Juniors

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    Slightly off topic, but geez I'd love a banner at the Gong and Kogarah (I haven't seen one yet) that read:

    "De Belin. De Beast".

    On retention, I'm with you Slippery and hope we are now focused on Lafai, Mann and I'd throw in McInnes. He has played a big role in our performances this year.
     
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  17. cussy

    cussy Juniors

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    It's not that he can't pass but that he has no vision.
     
  18. Dragon Revival

    Dragon Revival Juniors

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    The point is that our Top 25 players are playing well. However due to injuries to half-a-dozen players, poor defence on the left and right extremities and some bad refereeing calls we are starting to falter. Last year we lost Cooper, Creagh and Rein and we recuited three good replacements in Sims, Vaughan and Rein. However, we need to now find a suitable replacement for Packer hopefully internally but perhaps externally. However our three quarter line is the achilles heel due to likely departures and poor form. Only Aitken and MacDonald are signed for next year and Dugan, Lafai, Mann and Milne are unsigned due to roster retention mismanagement. Who will replace these four players who have been showing reasonable form? At the moment it would appear that most of the lower grade backs are not yet up to NRL standard. These include Clune, Dodd, Dufty, Field, Garrick, Gillard, Glymin, Herbert, Johns, Lomax, Marsters, Nona, Payne, Isaac Thompson and no doubt others.
    Perhaps we have poor transition skills coaching at NSW Cup level. Personally at the moment I believe that Dodd, Dufty, Field and Herbert if fit could be given some extended time at NRL level due to injuries or State of Origin unavailabilities. What do other Forum members think?
     
  19. possm

    possm First Grade

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    I agree with the transition problem. Field, Dufty, Herbert are the most likely right now but aren't ready. Hutch may be ready next year however only as a backup half given we have Widdop and Hunt signed on 1m dollar contracts. Mann, Milne and Lafaia are quality player who just need to be selected each week.

    Our main problem is what do with Aitken and Nightingale. The answer is very simple. Let Milne and Aitken compete for right centre each week. Let Nightingale and Herbert compet for right wing each week. Pick the form players and you can't go wrong.

    As for fullback, it is a spine positon and so we really should be looking for a marquee player to fill that position at this stage. Dufty and Field have not been tested as NRL fullback. So sign a marquee fullback on a two year deal - with options if possible - and let Dufty/Field be given a chance during 2018 when the position is vacant through injury or reprehensive games. So my preferred backline for 2018, would not be much different to what we have now.

    1. Hayne/Dufty
    2. Macdonald/Garrick
    3. Lafai/Mann
    4. Milne/Aitken
    5. Nightingale/Herbert
    6. Widdop/Field
    7. Hunt/Hutch
    The backup players shown above would play in those positons in reserve grade next year. A very strong backline with good depth.

    All we need is a new coach and for Millward to get on with making this happen.
     
  20. Dragon Revival

    Dragon Revival Juniors

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    We need to trial guys like Dufty and Herbert this year as if they can not
    perform at NRL level we need to recruit some better players.
     
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