More irony and hypocrisy from Feminists/SJW's

Discussion in 'Four Corners' started by Collateral, Jun 1, 2017.

  1. LESStar58

    LESStar58 Referee

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    I just don't agree with the idea of telling a demographic that their very existence is somehow problematic.

    I get the irony here. Don't worry.

    Government should have as little intervention into the lives of individuals as possible. Taxes? Laws? Of course that's fine. social engineering and indoctrination? not so much.

    I pretty much detest anybody or anything that tells me how I should be behaving or thinking. At 37 years old I'm still evolving but I'm pretty much formed and don't need anybody telling me to change or improve.

    Oh, I totally agree. Evidently some of them are not doing such a good job.

    Put it this way; my own personal philosophy about respect for women (or respect for anybody) is born out of simple life experience; I grew up with exceptional women who were my friends and cared about my development so later on I was able to interact with them at least competently and respectfully (probably too respectful some times). Also, the fact that if I disrespected my mother or my sister my dad was on hand to belt me which is, of course, frowned upon these days. Having said that, I'm all for parents physically disciplining their children. Let's face it, some kids (and adults for that matter) could do with a good hiding.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  2. Shorty

    Shorty Moderator Staff Member

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    Not that I don't agree with you but what's the harm in having that program?
    With the numbers of domestic violence, it makes sense to have something like that.

    I mean, again, there's better things to be p*ssed off about in schools *cough* chaplaincy programs *cough*.
     
  3. Snoop

    Snoop Coach

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    Well I'm not up to speed on the program perhaps but from reading the literature about it I can't see it how it does that? Is the implementation different to the press releases?
     
  4. LESStar58

    LESStar58 Referee

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    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...m/news-story/acea77bcd12cd6c3885c97b2be9fca47

    “Being born a male, you have advantages — such as being overly represented in the public sphere — and this will be true whether you personally approve or think you are entitled to this privilege,” states guidance for the Years 7 and 8 curriculum,” it says.


    This pretty much sums up why I shake my head at it. Granted, it's just Dan Andrews pretending to be Justin Tredeau but I think it is detrimental to boys and girls.

    It is collectively held guilt at the level of the individual as a philosophical standpoint and it is dangerous. I'm sure there are plenty of women, as well as men, who object to this.

    And I'm with you on chaplaincy in schools. The only thing I detest more than authoritarian leftism is the religious right.
     
  5. TheVelourFog

    TheVelourFog Bench

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    does the wording in the curriculum reflect necessarily the way it is worded when presented to the students? because I don't see anything wrong with the gist but that highlighted portion is a bit much
     
  6. LESStar58

    LESStar58 Referee

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    On the other side of the coin, I probably haven't read as much in to it (plus I don't have kids) as you have but I guess if it's good enough for some people in here to go in without the facts or a personal perspective then it's good enough for me too...

    Stuff like this...

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...m/news-story/acea77bcd12cd6c3885c97b2be9fca47

    It also introduces students to the term “hegemonic masculinity”, which is defined as the dominant form of masculinity in society that “requires boys and men to be heterosexual, tough, athletic and emotionless, and encourages the control and dominance of men over women”.


    So how I read in to that is; by accident of birth this is what is expected of me and other males. What about the way that people choose to make the way in their world as individuals? And again, where are the parents on this? Don't they have some sort of input in to the development of their children.

    Tell people something often enough and they start to believe it.
     
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  7. LESStar58

    LESStar58 Referee

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    I'm not advocating violence of any sort, not at all. But I'm the same as you... when I read stuff like this being reported in the manner it is the surface nature of it is what gets me a bit apprehensive.
     
  8. Shorty

    Shorty Moderator Staff Member

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    This is something I see a bit and think it could be solved if we change wording with things.
    Some people/groups in position of privilege seem to take it as a slight, when I think it's merely meant as a fact.
    It's not meant for guilt, just understanding.

    I think if other examples were used to compare, so across the board, it would help.
    So saying that white females are more privileged than women of colour, in conjunction with, for example.
     
  9. LESStar58

    LESStar58 Referee

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    My issue with the first bolded part is that the word "privilege" just gets thrown around way too much. I don't doubt that privilege exists and that we do have certain privileges and that we should work to deserve them.

    Me personally; was I "privileged" to live in a foreign country at such a young age and experience a new culture first hand? Yeah, I reckon I was but it isn't something that was exclusive to me as there were a lot of ex-pats there as well (Sri Lanka) but at the end of the day it is something unique to me and my life story that not many other people had the chance to do.

    I also happen to hold down a job I love and that I'm good at whereas some people probably get up and do things they don't even like but they have to. Privileged? Yeah, I'd say so.

    I get to do things I enjoy and that is a privilege but at the end of the day those are consequences of the decisions I've made and things that I have worked hard for... take the redundancy package I got from my last job for example. That wasn't gifted to me... I worked for that. ;-)

    My issue with the word is that, in my mind, it IS meant for guilt. They way it is constantly used by PC authoritarians is that is sounds to me like "shut up. You're the majority so your problems as a member of groups X, Y and Z are not important."

    I could cite dozens of other examples as to how I've had it better than other people but the difference is that I don't get around telling people who have more than me that they are oppressive to me or anybody else.

    The second bolded part, while I do have some common ground with you on it... well, you might have noticed that I hate collectivism. If people would only notice what they have as opposed to what they don't have I reckon we'd all be a lot happier.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  10. Mr Spock!

    Mr Spock! First Grade

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    Are you mansplaining?
     
  11. Mr Spock!

    Mr Spock! First Grade

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    Or send them to your church....

    Don't you people send your kids to school?
     
  12. sportive cupid

    sportive cupid Referee

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    Why is that a bit much?Its petty simple language and concepts .
    Is it more the idea that you thnk is wrong..that male priviledge exists even if males dont actually know it ?

    See I would say this program allows kids to start thinking about structural root causes of violence against women -without using those terms .

    If we are to ever eliminate violence against women we are going to need to understand how the very structures our society os built on either encouarge or at the least dont discourage violence against women .This happens through legal political and social systems which place men in positions of power and endorse that power.

    So it starts with girls wearing pink and playing passively with dolls ,moves to mens work being seen as more important ,to courts who demand higher proofs from victims of female gendered crimes.. .and all the ways in between.
    Thats way to complex for yr7 i admit.

    ..but simply discussing how boys are /arent advantaged is not .
    I think its great.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
  13. sportive cupid

    sportive cupid Referee

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    The word priviledge is not about guilt.Its more about appreciating that the kevel playng field doesnt exist ,and what those of us who have a high position of power can do to even things out which those beneath can not .
    So its more about obligations than guilt .

    My thoughts about respectful relationships teaching is that we could start addressung this misconception about priveledge.That way young men wouldnt have to go around thinking feminists hate them ,and young women could help young men unburden themselves from the shackles of privilege.
     
  14. Snoop

    Snoop Coach

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    Are you dodging?
     
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  15. Snoop

    Snoop Coach

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    If you don't like what is being said at church then you are free to get up and leave.
     
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  16. to_ddeath

    to_ddeath First Grade

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    Not always.
    People like Ford are a problem as they see their argument as black & white (take her recent BS 'not everything up for debate' piece which placed male privilege in the same category as climate science...eg undebatable because I deem it so).
    Antagonistic figureheads of the movement do no good whatsoever..there are plenty of reasonable feminist voices out there, just not the guerilla/radfem ones making clickbait cash.
    Soon as the divisive hatred & oppression olympics are taken out of the discussion...then perhaps we can actually work towards solving really important issues affecting & holding back both genders.
     
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  17. sportive cupid

    sportive cupid Referee

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    Are you referring to Clementine Ford when you say Ford? Because she is not a figurehead of the feminist movement .She is a writer who has positioned herself prominantly in Australian popular media.She certainly doesn't represent what is curiously known as redfeminism.

    Having said that ,why should a movement of oppressed people be reasonable ? Isn't that another form of victim blaming (as is commonly thrown around here) where feminists are blamed for how men's rights mivements behave and evolve and in essense are blamed for their own oppression?
    I wonder if its more that women arent supposed to be assertive .The word for assertiveness in women is antagonistic bitch .
     
  18. sportive cupid

    sportive cupid Referee

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    What do you see as the negative consequences of young people hearing about hememonic masculinity? You seem to be saying that it is your belief that we are all individuals in control of our own paths in life (am I right?) So how does this idea of hemoemonic masulinity ..told to many times and they believe it. ..impeded your idea?
     
  19. Shorty

    Shorty Moderator Staff Member

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    Nah it's not meant for guilt, I think though acknowledgment of privilege is used incorrectly these days.

    It's basically meant as a way of understanding one another.
    In a perfect world privilege doesn't actually exist but people are still treating people differently for the wrong things.

    In any case, I don't quite understand why a school board is under scrutiny when those that are responsible for domestic violence should be.
    No domestic violence, no reason to teach male children how wrong it is.
     
  20. LESStar58

    LESStar58 Referee

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    Nailed it with the first bolded part, Shorty.

    As I've said in here many times, it is just a word that gets thrown around with so much abandon that it just becomes a buzzword for when there is no other argument or excuse to be made so it can, at least in my estimation, become used for guilt.

    2nd bolded part; respect respectable people. I don't treat people any different for any unique reasons... if I get along with them, I get along with them. If there's a disagreeable component of who they are as a person, I just won't interact with them or, at best, have limited interaction with them.

    Your last part; totally agree. If you perpetrate violence against anybody then you wear the consequences... but what is go be gained by telling boys that they ALL have the POTENTIAL to be a perpetrator? And what does it tell girls? That they all have the potential to be victims and that the world is out to get them? What if they don't want to subscribe to that train of thought?
     

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