NBA Season 2017/18

[edabomb]

I used to have that opinion but I changed it after thinking abit harder about the whole situation.

Lebron didn’t start the whole ‘superteam’ era... you just had to go back to the KG, Paul Pierce & Ray Allen Celtics to see that.

The only thing Lebron did was take the initiative away from the teams.

I don’t have an issue with that... why should good players have their best years held hostage by shitty team management.

Constructed in very different ways though. The Boston team was put together through two trades of veteran players to tank/rebuild. All of those guys were on the wrong side of 30 otherwise that team would have been impossible to put together. They also had the benefit of the Sonics stripping assets at a discount rate so they could play the "fans aren't showing up card".

LeBron and Bosh both left in free agency leaving their franchises in terrible positions. That is their perogative as free agents but it completely changed the landscape where superstars would leave max dollars at the table and move to better placed teams rather than the traditional sign and trade. That's the way in which I see LeBron kicking this trend off. Before it was all about the max deal, now it is just about where can I win the most Championships and beat Jordan.

 

[Rod]

So what is it exactly that you wanted him to do? You agree that if he stayed at the Cavs they would have likely not won a chip unless something drastic changed. He had already dragged one completely undeserving team to the Finals and another to 66 wins, only for them to get their doors blown off by the Magic who had actually figured out the way the game was going while the Cavs surrounded LeBron with friggin Varejao at the 4 and Ilgauskas at the 5.

Of course he put himself in a very good position by signing with the Heat. They were of course likely to succeed. But he still had to go out and beat a Boston team that was already an established superteam (god I am starting to hate that term), and the Spurs, who also had 3 of the top 20 guys in the league. Why does LeBron get a bunch of crap about his awesome team while Duncan doesn't. Is it just because Duncan has stayed with the team that drafted him? Not hard to stay loyal when you're lucky enough to get drafted into a team with David Robinson and possibly the best coach of all time and a franchise renowned across the league for it's professionalism.

I'm just not sure what you want from him. He should have stayed at Cleveland, but in a crappy situation with an awful management? The only way he agreed to return in 2014 was when they basically agreed to all of his demands re: clearing the cap space and trading for Love. And why would you blame him after the last stint. I'd wager such a good player has ever been consistently surrounded by such poor talent in the prime of their career (or near to their prime, he's probably better now than he was then actually).

 

[edabomb]

I just would have liked to have seen him give it a couple more years in his first run there. They had Shaq expiring at 20mil, I think LeBron could have had a go at recruiting Bosh there for that spot.

Obviously all speculation. All I will say is I just see the Durant decision as a direct evolution from LeBron. Easier ride joining a 70 win team, yes. But most experts did predict the Heat to be almost that good when they were put together.

 

[T-Boon]

What seems like a full year after the regular season ended, the regular season MVP: James Harden. ROY: Ben Simmons.

 

[Barkley]

What an interesting awards night.

The MVP was not the best player of the year.
The ROY was in his second year, and
The COY was sacked after a franchise record season.

 

[Barkley]

 

[Rod]

The award is backwards and recently it seems like the criteria changes every year. Sometimes it's the best player (which is what it should be every year), other times it's the most valuable, and now we're back to team wins apparently being the deciding factor.

 

[Tommy Smith]

LeBron should have won the Award like 6-7 times by now tbh.

What sets LeBron way wayyyy apart from Harden is his offensive efficiency.

Look at the FG %! A ridiculous 54% vs 45%. It starts and ends right there.

Also only one of them plays defence.

Of course LBJ was better.

But they give it to Harden purely because he had a much better supporting cast; which led to more regular season wins. Ridiculous.

 

[shiznit]

I’m happy with Harden getting it...

Lebron is the best player in the world... but to me... even if he doesn’t have the talent that Harden has around him... I find it hard to give it to a guy who plays in the far, far weaker East.

That should count against him IMO...

 

[Rod]

Something that he is unable to control should count against him?

Ultimately I don't mind Harden getting it either (especially since he should have won last year). LeBron had a better year but I don't think the difference was enough to make it a robbery or anything. It just makes me laugh how much they value wins in what should be an individual award (except last year of course, go figure).

 

[shiznit]

Something that he is unable to control should count against him?

Ultimately I don't mind Harden getting it either (especially since he should have won last year). LeBron had a better year but I don't think the difference was enough to make it a robbery or anything. It just makes me laugh how much they value wins in what should be an individual award (except last year of course, go figure).

These awards always have an element which are out of the players control... whether that be injuries or trades which can change the league...

At the end of the day though Harden did what he did in a much tougher conference.

Are we supposed to just ignore that?? IMO I don’t think so.

I will also say that Lebron’s situation isn’t totally out of his control either... everyone knows that being in the weaker east has played a part in his decisions in FA.

And his supporting cast isn’t completely out of his control either... his relationship with Kyrie played a part in him wanting to leave... also Lebron’s lack of long term commitment to the Cavs meant they couldn’t use that Nets pick in a trade to bring in a much meaningful piece to compete.

Not that I have an issue with him not committing to the Cavs... that’s his right... and he’s earned it...

But it had consequences to the supporting cast they could put around him this season...

 

[shiznit]

I find the Clips moves very interesting... i think people need to keep an eye on the Clips...

Everyone is focusing on Lebron and PG to the Lakers but I wonder if there’s some appeal for Lebron to turn the Clips into the biggest team in LA... that would have a big impact on his legacy IMO...

 

[Tommy Smith]

With LeBron: Cavs make finals. Again.

Without LeBron: Cavs win < 20 games and have the worst record in league.

How can you get more valuable than that? I think it's just voter fatigue and they don't wanna give it to LeBron anymore.

 

[shiznit]

With LeBron: Cavs make finals. Again.

Without LeBron: Cavs win < 20 games and have the worst record in league.

How can you get more valuable than that? I think it's just voter fatigue and they don't wanna give it to LeBron anymore.

That says more about how bad the East is as opposed to being about how good Lebron is...

Lebron with that crew would be hard pressed just to make the playoffs let alone the finals in the West.

But of course we aren’t allowed to talk about that... SMH...

 

[Rod]

That says more about how bad the East is as opposed to being about how good Lebron is...

Lebron with that crew would be hard pressed just to make the playoffs let alone the finals in the West.

But of course we aren’t allowed to talk about that... SMH...

First of all, if you don't think the Cavs making the Finals this season wasn't a reflection on the quality of LeBron, especially after the playoffs he had, well....

You can talk about LeBron having a harder time of it in the West, but I personally I find these inter-conference comparisons don't really prove much, especially since the gap between the West and the East isn't as large as people would have you believe.

 

[shiznit]

First of all, if you don't think the Cavs making the Finals this season wasn't a reflection on the quality of LeBron, especially after the playoffs he had, well....

You can talk about LeBron having a harder time of it in the West, but I personally I find these inter-conference comparisons don't really prove much, especially since the gap between the West and the East isn't as large as people would have you believe.

Please.... the West is a f**king shark tank compared to that box of puppies in the East.

 

[Rod]

I will also say that Lebron’s situation isn’t totally out of his control either... everyone knows that being in the weaker east has played a part in his decisions in FA.

And his supporting cast isn’t completely out of his control either... his relationship with Kyrie played a part in him wanting to leave... also Lebron’s lack of long term commitment to the Cavs meant they couldn’t use that Nets pick in a trade to bring in a much meaningful piece to compete.

Not that I have an issue with him not committing to the Cavs... that’s his right... and he’s earned it...

But it had consequences to the supporting cast they could put around him this season...

Possibly a weaker East has played a part in his FA decision (although I doubt it). But it also works the other way. As I've said before, how many potentially very good Eastern conference teams has he killed off and forced to blow up? The East is weaker partially because he made it that way.

I don't know why he should be blamed for Kyrie bailing. Maybe he could have done more, but who knows. Kyrie is the one that demanded a trade and threatened knee surgery if it didn't go through. He sounds like the dick in that scenario.

You could potentially lay some of the blame at his feet for their current roster, I agree there.

Ultimately I think people overthink MVP and make it way more complicated than it needs to be. Who was the best player this year? It should be as simple as that.

 

[Rod]

Please.... the West is a f**king shark tank compared to that box of puppies in the East.

The top is more brutal, but once you get past the first few teams in each conference I don't really think there's much difference. I think the 'weak East' soundbite is a hangover from a couple of years ago when it really was more brutal (Warriors, Spurs, Thunder at their peak) and just the LeBron Cavs in the East.

I would wager the 2018 LeBron Cavs teams would beat any West team in the playoffs apart from the Rockets and Warriors.

Don't think we're going to agree on all that though.

 

[shiznit]

The top is more brutal, but once you get past the first few teams in each conference I don't really think there's much difference. I think the 'weak East' soundbite is a hangover from a couple of years ago when it really was more brutal (Warriors, Spurs, Thunder at their peak) and just the LeBron Cavs in the East.

I would wager the 2018 LeBron Cavs teams would beat any West team in the playoffs apart from the Rockets and Warriors.

Don't think we're going to agree on all that though.

Yup we will disagree strongly there...

For mine... the Cavs 18 team would be hard pressed to make the playoffs in the West... let alone even the WC Finals.

I mean... they were a .500 team against the West last season... so if you count the embarrassing 4-0 sweep in the finals... they finished up 15-19 vs the West.

I mean for a team that won the conference thats pretty f**king embarrassing...

 

[Rod]

Yes because we all know regular season performances of the Cavs are a great predictor of what they will produce in the playoffs....since LeBron returned they've won 53, 57, 51 and 50 games but made 4 straight Finals.

They clearly weren't in the class of the Warriors which I already said, so not sure why you'd include the sweep to make your stat look that much better.